I'm a first time color sander. Help!

[IvelDesigns]

sorry for posting this here, but i need some question answered and this forum gets viewed much more than the paint and body forum.

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i'm jumping in head first today. i've started color sanding my truck. it was painted the weekend before memorial day with a BC/CC. When we shot it, we only used a gallon of clear. we were able to get 3 coats out of that gallon (we had 3 coats in mind, but never put thought to that being pretty thin), but i know that probably means the clear is pretty thin.

with that said, i'm using 2000 grit, and am planning to go over that with meguiars fine-cut cleaner #2, then if needed, meguiars machine glaze. I will be using a foam pad for both. on the scale thing on the bottle, the cleaner is shown as a #5 cut, and the glaze as a #1 cut.

my question is, what should the clear look like after color sanding? because the clear was sprayed faster than it should have been on my truck, i have a good amount of orange peel. I've sanded down one fender, and will go take some pics of it and post here. In some parts i have gotten it completely smooth. in others spots, you can still see high and low spots in the clear, aka, the peel.

considering i still plan to go over it with a variable speed buffer, should i get those spots smooth too? should i not worry about getting everything smooth?

i am being very careful not to go through the clear. I'm constantly checking my paper to see if there is any red.

anyways, your comments would be greatly appreciated.

[IvelDesigns]

here are the pics to show what i'm working with

[IvelDesigns]

i should clarify that the first two show my fender, after sanding with 2000 grit only.
the thrid pic shows the door, and is an example of what i'm trying to remove.

[67_C-30]

Anytime I've ever colorsanded, I have always sanded until all visible orange peel was gone. 3 coats should be enough, unless they were very light coats. Unless you are experienced with the buffer, I'd maybe practice a little on something else. You can burn through clear in a hurry if you're not careful. Be very careful on any body lines, seams and ridges, for example like the raised wheelwell opening in the second pic. It is extremely easy to burn through on places like that. Another problem area is like door handles, antennas, wipers and anything the buffer can catch and dig in around. Be careful around those too.

[too much stuff]

It looks like you are on the right track. The top part of your fender looks ready to start buffing on. It looks like you have alot of texture in the clear. I don't know if you will get all of it. Tip: tape over any high spots or ridges you are worried about burning through. When you are done they will blend in pretty well. Good luck.

[LONGHAIR]

If you "see red" it's waaaay to late. You could sand and even rub, still not seeing getting through the clear....but that doesn't mean that there is enough left on there to protect the base coat.
Rough spray, contrary to popular belief, is not thicker. Usually it is much thinner. The texture is somewhat protective though because the "tops" of the texture take the initial hit...so to speak. Once you wet-sand that off, you are now more uniform....thin. This can/will scratch easier. It takes far less to make noticable marks on paint that has been sanded "solid". Solid, meaning to the point where you don't see any shiny spots (texture) when you are done sanding and wipe clean.

If you are not sure of the materail thinkness.....Caution is the best way to go.
Don't sand any farther than you need to.
Be Carefull......no, really

Many guys that are planning to sand solid, clear twice. They shoot the vehicle like normal, wet-sand and re-clear, sanding soild and rubbing after the second time. It saves you from putting it on overly thick in the first place and gives you a "head start", because the texture is gone from the first shooting. Too thick is not good either.

Edited to add:
If this is a driver, not intended to be a show truck, stick with the "optical illusion" factor. As long as you get rid of the worst part of the "peel" on the lower parts of the body...all you really have to get "perfect" is the upper parts. From the bodyline up the the horizontal surface is most important. As long as it does not look really bad below that, to the point where it draws your eye to it, poeple will assume that all of the body is as good as the top..... Did I say be carefull?

[caja_larga]

That is a whole bunch of orange peel. I would say if your last two coats of clear where put on heavy you should have plenty of clear to sand. I would start with 1200 grit paper to remove the bulk of the orange peel then hit it with the 2000 then buff. GO SLOW on the sanding I sand and use a squege to remove the water to see where I am at.

[Botietruck]

I'm in the process of doing mine now. I had 3 coats of clear & started with 1000 then went to 1500 and finished off with 2000. I used the Presta Ultra Cutting Cream with a foam pad @ 1500 -1800 RPM. Then switched to Presta Swirl Mark Remover and a new foam pad, I polished each area 3 -4 times or until I got the shine I wanted.
If you leave the low spots, they won't buff out. You'll still have the orange peel, just glossier. Try a small area that could be recleared if you would happen to go through the clear, and get the peel out of it. You should have enough clear to get it smooth. Let the buffer do the work and don't put alot of pressure on it. There are some good websites explaining how to colorsand. Here's what mine looked like after colorsanding & buffing. Good Luck!!

[LONGHAIR]

I would start with 1200 grit paper to remove the bulk of the orange peel then hit it with the 2000 then buff.

I had 3 coats of clear & started with 1000 then went to 1500 and finished off with 2000.

I am not a believer in all of that extra work or extra paper. Your compound should be able to handle 1200 grit. Solid is solid, how shiny the paper leaves it doesn't matter. 1200, plenty of water, a 3M rubber squeegee and sanding one time around are all you need.

[IvelDesigns]

thanks for the feedback guys. this is a driver, with the occasional stop at a local show. I'm going with what longhair said. worry about the top, and less about the bottom. most of the peel is coming out pretty well, it's the lower parts that aren't.

i like the idea about the tape over the body lines. i'm gonna do that now to prevent any issues. i could see that being a pretty big issue around the wheel wells, and especially the hood since everyone will see it there.

thanks again for the advice guys. btw botietruck, that is some really good looking work there. I don't have any grand illusions of mine looking that good. however, i've learned a lot from this project (my first body / paint work ever) and have a ton of things that i will do differently on the next one.

[IvelDesigns]

oh, and thankfully i don't have to worry about door handles, locks or the antenna

[LONGHAIR]

Rubbing around bodylines has more to do with what direction you are coming from than anything else. Be sure you are "flowing over" the line, not climbing it. Think of it like petting a cat.....down stream. Tape can help, but be careful (I said it again) that you don't snag the tape.

[piecesparts]

Go to the auto parts store and get some of the 3-M rubber backing pads for wet sanding (if you haven't already got them). Use them to back your sand paper when you sand the paint. That will remove any chance of ridges, in the finish product, that might be caused by your fingers on the paper. I also use that pad or a small squeegee made of surgical material to wipe the water and paint film off as I rinse the sanded surface. I use a 1500 grit to start, but finish up with a 2500 grit to remove the larger sanding scratches and plenty of water. I believe you get what you put into it, in effort. What I look for a smooth finish (sanding scratches are there though) to ensure that the pebbled finish of the orange peel is gone. When you buff, the finish will give a shine like a mirror. I use 3-M finnessee-It as my buffing compound and then follow up with a 3-M glazing compound to take the swirl marks out. The thing that you want to look for is a buffing compound that does not cut too much or you will go through the clear coat. There are quite a few hours of sanding and buffing in the finish on this one.

[LONGHAIR]

Like I said on another very similar post...
I use 3M's Perfect It II line. The compound is a little more agressive, but it "breaks-down" almost becoming it's own polish. Then follow with the foam pad glaze. Sanding finer than the grit of your compound does no good at all. The problem is that many companys will not directly tell you how coarse of a sanding scratch the product will remove. 3M's Perfect It says right on the label that it will remove 1200 grit marks....no need for more sanding than that. Saves time and money, looks great.

[VA72C10]

Great info!

[chevy72blu]

I wish this thread was around 3-4 years ago when I spent nearly a week working on mine. Great info in here.

I did only the hood, fenders, top of the tailgate, and the bed above the upper trim. No CC, but its garaged 24/365 and the paint looks incredible for how little I spent on it. I've had several people walk up and say "WOW! How much did you spend and who painted it?".

PITA, but one of the best things I have done to it as far as looks.

[LockDoc]

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Hey Levi,

Ron said to just get out the belt sander and garden hose. You can make short work out of it that way...

LockDoc

[70GMCer]

Originally Posted by LONGHAIR

Like I said on another very similar post...
I use 3M's Perfect It II line. The compound is a little more agressive, but it "breaks-down" almost becoming it's own polish. Then follow with the foam pad glaze. Sanding finer than the grit of your compound does no good at all. The problem is that many companys will not directly tell you how coarse of a sanding scratch the product will remove. 3M's Perfect It says right on the label that it will remove 1200 grit marks....no need for more sanding than that. Saves time and money, looks great.

This is what I used on my bc/cc and with 1200 grit wet/dry........and I had some heavy orange peel in areas. When finished, There were no scratches to be seen. This stuff works. But with any compound, be careful with the buffer.......

[piecesparts]

Originally Posted by LONGHAIR

Like I said on another very similar post...
I use 3M's Perfect It II line. The compound is a little more agressive, but it "breaks-down" almost becoming it's own polish. Then follow with the foam pad glaze. Sanding finer than the grit of your compound does no good at all. The problem is that many companys will not directly tell you how coarse of a sanding scratch the product will remove. 3M's Perfect It says right on the label that it will remove 1200 grit marks....no need for more sanding than that. Saves time and money, looks great.

I won't challenge the thinking here, but it depends on what type of finish that you want. The "Perfect It II" line was created to make the polishing look like a factory paint job. That includes some dimpling effect that is in your paints of taoday. Take a look at a brand new car and you will see that effect. That is good for 90% of the public, then there are the ones that want that smooth finish. Yes; it will take scratches out at 1200 grit, but when the paint shrinks further the scratches will come out of the color --- seen it to many times and had to go back and polish out the scratches after the fact. I had a friend that we had to do his whole car over a few months after a comlete paint job. Now the car is immaculate and smooth---you have to decide what level you want to take your finish to. The black truck above has had the paint finish for over 6 years and it is driven and not trailered.

[LONGHAIR]

How "flat/slick" the paint is has to do with how it is sanded, not how it is rubbed. But again, like in the other thread, I have never had a problem.
Also, this was several years ago ('95-'03) there may be better stuff now, but it worked well then....and they still sell it today.
We used some other stuff too, but I don't remember the name. It came from a local supplier that drove a "tool truck" type rig. All I can think of is "matco" but I know that is wrong. He sold other stuff too, but all we got from him was compounds/polishes and pads.

but when the paint shrinks further the scratches will come out of the color

Out of the color? All of the rubbing in the world won't fix scratches in the color. If that is the case, it wasn't sanded fine enough before the clear ever went on, or the base for that matter.

[piecesparts]

Originally Posted by LONGHAIR

How "flat/slick" the paint is has to do with how it is sanded, not how it is rubbed. But again, like in the other thread, I have never had a problem.
Also, this was several years ago ('95-'03) there may be better stuff now, but it worked well then....and they still sell it today.
We used some other stuff too, but I don't remember the name. It came from a local supplier that drove a "tool truck" type rig. All I can think of is "matco" but I know that is wrong. He sold other stuff too, but all we got from him was compounds/polishes and pads.



Out of the color? All of the rubbing in the world won't fix scratches in the color. If that is the case, it wasn't sanded fine enough before the clear ever went on, or the base for that matter.

Yes out of the color--Base coat/clear coat paint is nothing more than an illusion and if you look deep enough into the color of the paint and not at the shiney clear stuff, you will see those scratches. Maybe you have never seen it, then again maybe you have. When you polish, you blend the clear over to hide those scratches/ripples/sanding marks/whatever you want to call them.


I tell you what, Iveldesigns; just for the sake of insanity- I would take the sanding a bit further than you have (according to your pictures) to get rid of the orange peel and use whatever your local body shop uses for sandpaper and polishing equipment and don't pay to much attention to all of us old codgers---It appears that we are having a little problem agreeing on anything, good luck. I don't paint for a living However I have been involved in all of my own paint projects and know what I like and what I can create. I also do auto detailing at times and I have seen some nasty paint jobs.

[Bob 68327]

Originally Posted by LockDoc

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Hey Levi,

Ron said to just get out the belt sander and garden hose. You can make short work out of it that way...

LockDoc

[IvelDesigns]

heh, yeah, i wanted to have Ron's friend do this, but cash is a bit tight right now, and i wanted to learn. so far so good.

I spent about 3 hours on sanding this afternoon. I got one fender, a door, half of the roof and half of the hood done. my wife made me go to a family thing this evening, but i was able to have a go at the polisher with the meguires fine-cut cleaner before we left on one spot of the hood. I have to say, if the rest of the truck comes out like this, i'm gonna be a happy dude.

i'm slightly concerned about the body lines though. I sanded fairly close to them with the 2000, but am staying about 1.5" away with the buffer. Will i be able to get it as shinny by hand as i am with the buffer? i realize it will be more work. i'm just worried that you'll be able to tell one spot from another.

[LockDoc]

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I've never got it to come out the same but give it a try. I think they have a smaller foam pad for the detail stuff. You might check.

LockDoc

[mfarmer]

Be sure to post this in the Paint & Body forum. There is a couple of guys in there that will be able to point you in the right direction.