6.5 diesel in 4x4 1970 w/no body lift??

[Keep on Trucking]

Hey people. I want to put a diesel in the 70 4x4. A Cummins or a 6.5. I have both that I can use, but am leaning towards the 6.5.
My question is: In a 4x4 67-72 has anyone done it without any lift or atleast without any body lift?
I have a big block in it now and to make it fit I had to modify the firewall and use 3" body lift.
I want to remove the body lift and install a 6.5. Will it fit?

[thirdstreettito]

I would put it in now, and then see how much room you have left with the lift.

Also, can I have the Cummins?

[kwmech]

The 6.5 will fit without any mods if it has the sepentine belt. I put a 6.5 in a 68 4x years ago without any mods what-so-ever. No body lift, no firewall mods. Same dimensions as the big block. Used the big block radiator and shroud.

[Keep on Trucking]

Originally Posted by thirdstreettito

Also, can I have the Cummins?

If you can be here in the next five minutes, its yours.

[Keep on Trucking]

Originally Posted by kwmech

The 6.5 will fit without any mods if it has the sepentine belt. I put a 6.5 in a 68 4x years ago without any mods what-so-ever. No body lift, no firewall mods. Same dimensions as the big block. Used the big block radiator and shroud.

Well a big block won't fit in a 4x4 without modifiying the firewall and or a lift kit? So if a 6.5 is roughly the same size I don't think the cab will clear the valve covers on the diesel when the body lift is removed.

Did you move the engine forward on the 68?

[jeffspower]

Originally Posted by kwmech

The 6.5 will fit without any mods if it has the sepentine belt. I put a 6.5 in a 68 4x years ago without any mods what-so-ever. No body lift, no firewall mods. Same dimensions as the big block. Used the big block radiator and shroud.

I'd have to see it to believe it. No mods AT ALL? I have a '68 4x4, and you could try to make it fit seven ways to Sunday, it isn't going to bolt in without serious mods. I set a 6.2 in a '72 4x4 once. The driver's head hit the firewall before it was even close to the bellhousing, and the exhaust manifolds were sitting on the frame with the mounts far higher than where they would bolt to the crossmember, which the crossmember would not have worked because the oil pan was too big, and the clutch cross shaft was a no- go/ no- way...

[Keep on Trucking]

Originally Posted by jeffspower

I'd have to see it to believe it. No mods AT ALL? I have a '68 4x4, and you could try to make it fit seven ways to Sunday, it isn't going to bolt in without serious mods. I set a 6.2 in a '72 4x4 once. The driver's head hit the firewall before it was even close to the bellhousing, and the exhaust manifolds were sitting on the frame with the mounts far higher than where they would bolt to the crossmember, which the crossmember would not have worked because the oil pan was too big, and the clutch cross shaft was a no- go/ no- way...

You make good points.
Things that will help me.
1. when I did the BBC in it now I clearenced the firewall. When I did that I lost the use of the original clutch, so I went with a hyd throw out bearing and a master cylinder.
2. I put in the 1973 style engine xmember as the original would not fit with the oil pan I used.
I think the 6.5 SHOULD go in, in this case. I think a 6.5 is smaller overall size than a BBC.Anyone know for sure?
Oh yea I will be running a 4L80E trans with it.

[jeffspower]

Your mods should make it pretty easy. The '73 up crossmember "stands" should be replaced with 6.2 stands- they are slightly different. I think you can get the gas stands to work, I can't remember the actual difference, but I know I always had to swap them when going from 6.2 to 350.

Keep us posted w/ pics when you start on it!

[Keep on Trucking]

On my 96 6.5 the frame side mount has a 90 degree bend in it and the gassers are flat. I think dimentionaly they are the same so ethier should work once they are mounted.
My main objectives are to get a 6.5 in it and be able to remove the body lift.

thirdstreettito, times up.

[special-K]

A Detroit-Allison 6.2/6.5 has the same footprint as a BBC.So....

I know they`ll drop right in a 2wd.We know a 4wd is another story.

Not sure if you are aware,but if it`s a 6.5TD the heater and the turbo/downpipe will be fighting for space.

[Keep on Trucking]

By footprint do you mean bellhousing bolt pattern? Yes they are the same.

I also have Vintage Air installed with the flat fire wall, so I hope I will be ok there.
Thanks.

[special-K]

I mean all around & overall:height,width,length.I think they need pretty much whatever space a BBC needs.

[Keep on Trucking]

OK thanks.
Im going to start on this project next month when the weather starts to cool off. I will take lots of pictures.

[67_C-30]

I'll agree with Special K on that. The small block mounts seem to mount them too low. I am going to use either BBC or GMC V6 frame mounts on my '67 C-30.

[Keep on Trucking]

I have the 73-up xmember and the 73-up style engine mounts they are from energy suspension, the urethane kind.
Do ya'll see any problems with using those?
Im pretty sure this thing will just about fall in there with it allready having a BBC in it now, but its the little things that can sneak up and bite you/me.

[67_C-30]

Originally Posted by Keep on Trucking

I have the 73-up xmember and the 73-up style engine mounts they are from energy suspension, the urethane kind.
Do ya'll see any problems with using those?
Im pretty sure this thing will just about fall in there with it allready having a BBC in it now, but its the little things that can sneak up and bite you/me.

They should be fine. In fact, another member on this board put a 6.5TD in a 67 C-20 and he had to use the 73 up mounts because SBC mounts made the engine sit too low.

[kwmech]

These are the only pics that I have of the install. Yes there was a small suspension lift on the truck, and the engine was installed in the 2wd big block location

[Keep on Trucking]

OK very cool.
So is what you are saying is your engine is mounted more forward than normal? I guess you would need to mod drive shafts, trans xmember, tcase mounts ECT...... right? What trans did you use? I am going to go with a 4L80E. You used a suspesion lift, did you use/need a body lift?
Any more pictures of the finished install? I also see its a 6.2 so you did not have turbo clearence issues. By looking at your pic's it looks like a 6.5 turbo will fit in mine.
Thanks again for the pictures.

[kwmech]

No more pics, those are the only ones.
That is an early 6.5. Yes I did drivelines, I was running a th400 with a Gear Vendor OD with 3.73 gearing. The build was a complete frame off, so everything was stripped off. That pic was taken b4 the turbo was installed. I used an ATS exhaust manifold. That was fun trying to buy as they do not ship into Calif.. Had to do an end run around thru a friend in Oregon to get the manifold. The Banks manifold will not fit as it want to hit the radiator. The ATS manifold brings the turbo up between cyls 1&2. It is out of the way of the heater box that way.

[Keep on Trucking]

How do you like it now that its done? Anything you would have done different?
I have a 6.5 non turbo intake (like the one in your picture) that I powder coated red and that I will be listing on ebay. I was going to use it with a custom inlet ducting.
I think we would all like to see pictures of your finished truck!!
I just tought about something:: is your truck 2WD or 4x4? If it is 4x4 how did you set up the GV overdrive?
Thanks.

[67_C-30]

Originally Posted by Keep on Trucking

How do you like it now that its done? Anything you would have done different?
I have a 6.5 non turbo intake (like the one in your picture) that I powder coated red and that I will be listing on ebay. I was going to use it with a custom inlet ducting.
I think we would all like to see pictures of your finished truck!!
I just tought about something:: is your truck 2WD or 4x4? If it is 4x4 how did you set up the GV overdrive?
Thanks.

Even though I have a 6.5 TD intake, I used the older style because of the higher plenum and dual plane design. I saw a test where a Banks "hat style" pressure chamber on a dual plane, non-EGR intake a little more HP and significant more torque than the factory 6.5 intake. The inlet part of the 6.5TD intake gets scrunched down really small for clearance in the newer body style trucks. I fabricated mine from a 1970 Porsche air cleaner (for an old school look really), but you can buy the Banks style. Here's pics of mine and Banks style.

[67_C-30]

BTW, as far as I can tell the factory heater box is not going to work with the 6.5TD set-up. It appears that the turbo is going to hit right where it will be, but I'm not sure yet. I planning on going with Vintage Air, so it doesn't matter to me.

[Keep on Trucking]

Hey how did you get that picture of my engine.

I want to post a picture of my intake but keep getting this message.
"The Dimension limits for this filetype are 642 x 0. We were unable to resize your file so you will need to do so manually and upload it again. Your file is currently 1280 x 960. "
I don't think I can resize my pic's down to 0 can I. Am I limited on the amount of attachments I can have on this site? cause I have posted a few pictures allready.

Also I will be needing to round up the complete serp belt system for the 6.5

[Keep on Trucking]

Originally Posted by 67_C-30

BTW, as far as I can tell the factory heater box is not going to work with the 6.5TD set-up. It appears that the turbo is going to hit right where it will be, but I'm not sure yet. I planning on going with Vintage Air, so it doesn't matter to me.

Ive allready got the Vintage air and it blows snow balls. Another problem for me is I will have to figure out how to mount the sanden A/C comp.

[67_C-30]

Originally Posted by Keep on Trucking

Hey how did you get that picture of my engine.

I want to post a picture of my intake but keep getting this message.
"The Dimension limits for this filetype are 642 x 0. We were unable to resize your file so you will need to do so manually and upload it again. Your file is currently 1280 x 960. "
I don't think I can resize my pic's down to 0 can I. Am I limited on the amount of attachments I can have on this site? cause I have posted a few pictures allready.

Also I will be needing to round up the complete serp belt system for the 6.5

You'll need to downsize them with some kind of editing software or you can set a free photobucket account and link to them.