swimming in a sea of choices.. (engine choices)

[gintaras]

So I have an original "survivor" with 68k on the clock and she runs real good, but I want a little more power than the 175 ponies..

There are sooooo many choices out there.. top end kits, stroker kits, crate motors, late model swaps, etc etc..


I know I won't start my project until the spring, but I am been giving it some thought lately and I really don't know where to go with this...

yeah, it would be cool to use the original motor and do a top end kit, and that might also be easier, but I hate to tear into an engine that hasn't been cracked since 1972..

crate motors are fairly cheap, 350 hp for around $3500 ! thats a steal really.

and I already have been lookin into a trans swap, will probably g with a 700r4

but yeah, there are just countless possibilities, engine-wise.. in the long run, I'd like to run a 427 small block out of a z06.. but those are too new and cost mucho $$$$$$

so, can you prod me in the right direction? I am no newbie to power,I have a 12 sec VW (that I will be selling soon) I want to keep it street-able, cruise-able, and the occasional trip to the dragstrip for fun. Basically I want it to be a sleeper, a little lumpy, but rippin fun with some throttle

[big_al_71]

I went thru the same about a month a half ago I went with a small block 400 and I can not be happier....
Few bolt ons and it runs like hell......

[smoky02]

That is an extremely sexy motor!

[LuckyHenriksen]

I would love to do a 6.0L/4L60E swap into mine but that is quite a bit more involved than a Gen I small block. What are you looking at as far as budget?

[thirdstreettito]

Dont get a 700R4...its a dog. Get a TH350, not a TH400, the TH350 is one of the toughest automatics there is.


I want to do a 400/6L80-E 6-Speed Auto!

But as most of us, I cant afford that!

[gintaras]

I already have a TH350 that shifts good as is.. maybe I will have to give it some more thought, but I wanted an overdrive for the highway.

[Gray Ghost]

I stuck with my original block and rebuilt it to around 300 ponies. Since it's a driver that's all I need and it's got gobs of power compared to the weak stock motor.

For the 'toy' [67 stepside] I will be going the other route....big block with 500+hp. It all depends on wht you are going to do with the truck.

If you plan on more than 400hp, you'll be better off with a TH350 or 400 for dependability and strength With a good rebuild and a shift kit you'll be set and your wallet won't be nearly as thin.

[cdowns]

well if in the future you think you might want to have the truck returned to original stock configuration i'd pull and store the original engine tranny combo// then i'd get a crate engine and a 2004R tranny(properly built can easily take 500-600hp) its just a bolt in deal no cutting driveshaft like with the 700r4// with the 2004R you get a great set of gear ratios plus the overdrive for highway mileage and not much work if you decide to return the truck to stock// i'm a big fan of the turnkey engines from www.enginefactory.com and performance built custom trannies from www.fbperformance.com

[Ozark Tim]

I'd say let the engine match the truck. However you are planning to modify the truck do the same with the engine. The crate 300+ h.p. engines are a great deal with a good warranty.....
And then since I assume you have a 350/350 combo out of a 72, p.m. me when you want to sell the original since you wont be needing that!
OT

[69ROTROD]

Originally Posted by thirdstreettito

Dont get a 700R4...its a dog. Get a TH350, not a TH400, the TH350 is one of the toughest automatics there is.


I want to do a 400/6L80-E 6-Speed Auto!

But as most of us, I cant afford that!

I know that a lot of guys go with the 700R4 I went through three in my Trans Am. They STINK! The TH350 is indestructable.

I put a 350 crate motor in my '69 but I kept the original 307 to rebuild in case I ever want to go back to it. If you can afford it, I say get a good 350 or 400 and keep the original motor to rebuild as you can.That's my .02.

[streetstar]

I know you probably won't do this one, but i've been wanting to see someone use a 348 or a 409 for a while (i may have to be the first) -- would be a neat engine for a "survivor condition" vehicle (but kinda $$$$$ )

[Gray Ghost]

Originally Posted by gintaras

I already have a TH350 that shifts good as is.. maybe I will have to give it some more thought, but I wanted an overdrive for the highway.

You can get a good 700 built for the truck, but I'd shy away from the 200 series...i've had two that tanked under a bit of HP and one was rebuilt by a GM tech. I'm also not a fan of crate motors. I spent $950 on my rebuild and about $750 on parts I wanted to add....total cost $1700.

When I had the Monte Carlo SS we ordered and HO 350 from AutoCenter here in Dallas. Cost me over $3k and when we got it in the car it was a dog compared to my 78 El Camino SS. Ironically the Elky's 350 [a 70-74 014 block rebuilt] was rated at the same exact HP as the crate but would stomp it off the line. The Elky had a 325 hp 350, 3.08 and TH350 and the MCSS had a brand new roller cammed HO 350, built 2004r and the 3.73 posi rear. The second time out, we tanked the 200 so after the $1600 rebuild [yep...cost that much] it was put back in and the car was sold. I hated that I spent so much cash and came up with a dog that looked great.

Granted this was a GM crate and not an aftermarket, there are good ones out there, but the prices will scare ya.

[gintaras]

Originally Posted by streetstar

I know you probably won't do this one, but i've been wanting to see someone use a 348 or a 409 for a while (i may have to be the first) -- would be a neat engine for a "survivor condition" vehicle (but kinda $$$$$ )

I thought you couldn't put a BB into a SB equipped truck without a lot of fab work.. is this right?

[sick69]

I have to disagree on the th350.

If your building a stock motor with mild mods the th350 is fine but if your gonna build high ponies or torque the th350 is not a good choice. Or at least it wasn't for me.

I have twisted 2 in half,,,,literally. the bell and half the housing stayed on the motor and the other half stayed attached to the mount and everything in the middle went many directions.

So if your going to build mild street a th350 will be fine, but if your gonna build power go with something stronger.

I'm not familiar enough with the 4l80, 4l60 trannies to say anything either way about them. I know the 700r4 if built and adjusted correctly can handle some decent power as will the th400


Just my .02

Frank

[big_al_71]

Originally Posted by gintaras

I thought you couldn't put a BB into a SB equipped truck without a lot of fab work.. is this right?

Different mounts and you are ready...there is no big time fabrication..you will need different brackets for your accessories and you are set.

[sick69]

Originally Posted by gintaras

I thought you couldn't put a BB into a SB equipped truck without a lot of fab work.. is this right?

Not really true, but it does take some looking for the right parts. Motor mounts ussually have to move, stock exhaust will have to be modified or replaced, depnding on how worn the front suspention is swapping to a big block will push the limits, radiator will probably have to be changed.

Not really fab work but alot of parts replaced depending on what you are starting with.

You will have to consider,,,
radiator size, built in trans cooler
motor stand location
driveshaft length if the motor stands are moved
fuel line size depending on how much motor you build/buy
how worn is the front suspension,,,big block weighs few hundred pounds more than a small block
possibly any wireing issues running a better ignition system

All this stuff will have to be addressed at some point during the swap




Hope it helps
Frank

[brad_man_72]

a couple of weekends ago i saw a board member with a 5.3 ls swap with auto trans and a mild cam beat a f*rd lightening in the 1/4 mile, before the cam swap he said he was geting 20mpg. junkyard motor and trans around $1000 then another $1000 for mounts, wiring harness tuning. their are a ton of writeups on it around the boards. the look on a guys face that just paid $40k for the fastest truck ford made getting beat by a 40 year old truck with a little motor.. PRICELESS!

[PanelDeland]

For the $$$ and the power I think a 383 GM short block and a top end kit would be a lot of bang for the $$$.Most GM dealers can get the short block but you might get a better deal $$$ wise from the aftermarket though the GM 383 uses a stock bore(more rebuilds).Edelbrock and Holley both sell complete top end kits matched parts for a specific power level.
I think a tranny is going to be a bit pricey if you want reliability.The 400 will handle the power but uses more of it.A built 350 will handle it also but no OD. A 700R4 or 200R4 would need to be built(beefed up) to handle much abuse.I know a lot of guys don't like the 200R4 but if it will handle the power of a Buick GN then it should handle the power a stout SB makes when properly built.
The real issue is budget and use.If you plan on street use only (no hiway) than the OD isn't all that big a deal.If you want to be able to road trip the OD is going to be a lot more important.Rear end gearing and tire size can play an important role.
You may wind up with almost as much or more in a tranny than in the engine.

[Gray Ghost]

You speak of two different 2004r's. Only the Buick GN and the 442 got the good one and they are as scarce as hen's teeth these days. You can find one for sale sometimes but they are well over $1000 in core form. They had hardened stators and much heavier duty clutches, etc.

Your run of the mill 200 was built for around 145 ponies at the flywheel and cannot handle anything more without extensive work.

That 5.3 swap is the bomb....I'd do that in a heartbeat if I hadn't already rebuilt my motor. Driveability....this combo has most others beat and the truck will be a runner for sure.

The 4l series trannies are excellent and by far better than either the 700or 200 series. The 4L60 is dervied from the 700 with heavier duty parts and the 4L80 is a decendant of the TH400 and it's said it is every bit as bulletproof.

[gintaras]

OK, so what do you all think about this? 5.3 mated to a 4l60e
http://www.southernperformancesystem...ortec53ci.html

Or for about $1k more you can do the amuminum 5.3
http://www.southernperformancesystem...tec53alum.html

[thirdstreettito]

And remember, the TH400 cant take much HP, stock not more than maybe 300 and then the gears start killing themselves, so IMO go with the TH350, stock it'll take about 350hp, and it doesnt cost much to have it built up to perfection.

[Gray Ghost]

Maybe not a bad choice at all...you will need many more parts to go with the conversion package but that looks like a good start.

About the TH400...most were built to withstand the largest blocks GM built....stronger than most 350's. While both can be built equally the 400 was the big dog of the day. I don't personally prefer them because of the pedal mounted kickdown mechanism, but they are about as close to bulletproof as a 70's transmission can get.

[skchevota]

Originally Posted by thirdstreettito

And remember, the TH400 cant take much HP, stock not more than maybe 300 and then the gears start killing themselves, so IMO go with the TH350, stock it'll take about 350hp, and it doesnt cost much to have it built up to perfection.

Having built many th350s and th400s, the 400s are wayyyyyyyyy stronger.
the gears, clutches, sprags, eveything is biger. They came behind 450hp big blocks, in moter omes, dump trucks, you name it. With aftermarket parts they will suport what ever kind of hp you make. The down fall of the TH 400 is the 1st gear ratio is 2.48 to 1, the 700 r4 is 3.06 to 1. tis is like going from a 3.08 rear end to 3.73s off the line.

[straitnate14]

You should look into last months chevy high preformance, I think last months.
They did a 5.3 build with the stock truck motor and a set of headers and a tune and got like 348 hp and then they threw some heads and a cam at it and pick it up to like 480hp I want to say? but anyways I think that they had 3100 in it without the heads and a cam and that was turnkey. I would love to get a 5.3 for my future dream/family car (64 chevy2)

[gintaras]

Thanks, I will look for it.
and I lived in bloomington for a short while last year, I was a consultant at state farm

The funny thing is I miss it there.. it is easy to get around and the people are different than Chicago.