Pro-touring 65' C-10

[pharmd]

If you were going to build a true pro-touring 65' chevy step side, one that was built to really perform on a road course, YET was able to be driven cross country like the power tour...how would you build it? Suspension, drivetrain, motor, brakes, cooling...how would you do it?

[Super73]

I would:

3-link the rear suspension
Buy C5 or C6 front control arms, spindles, front spring
Find a LS1/2/3 with a 98-02 6 speed from a Camaro

That would be a pretty good start.

[ripdog28]

3 link rear,
Boxed frame,
Mustang II front end,
LS3 W/440hp with a charger/turbo 500+hp (about $8500) and full wire/computer set up from jegs or summit (LS7 500hp/24mpg if had $12grand) OOH yes 6 speed as well.

[djracer]

17 or 18 inch wheels, Baer brakes, Big Nasty sway bars front and rear, Watts link out back instaed of panhard, Trailing arm rear with urethane upgrades. Coilovers on all 4 corners. Lowered of course. Normaly Aspirated nasty Ls motor with a built 4l80. Rack and pinion Steering. Recaro seats. Kickin Stereo. Relocate battery and tank to rear. I'm sure I could come up with more! This would make an awesome ride.

[ripdog28]

im in the middle of installing my watts link at the moment with some boxed trailing arms, will look sick with the polished aluminum when all done. will tell everyone to get down on all 4 to look at the rear end when done haha.

[djracer]

cool post pics

[shortbed70]

I would be more traditional and keep the truck arms but go 2x4 frame tubular uppers and trailing arms\watts link and bags all around 18" magnesium wheels big sway bars,brakes,oh yea if moneys no object get my 454 motown (aluminum)and get the best fuel injection kit I can find and then turbo it.....6 speed all the way. If I couldn't fund that motor I would build a 377 with the lightest rotating assembly I can find add some compression,injection and run N\A with a monster roller cam.

[pharmd]

I got the motor situation covered, but I am rather new to road race suspension...so give me some pro/cons for the rear suspension (watts link / 3 link vs upgraded stock suspension) and front suspension C5 vs mustang II vs upgraded stock...

I am doing coilovers on my 07' TBSS, already has sway bars, Belltech springs, DJM upper A arms, but the ride quality needs help, hence the coilovers.

[leftcoast66]

Originally Posted by djracer

17 or 18 inch wheels, Baer brakes, Big Nasty sway bars front and rear, Watts link out back instaed of panhard, Trailing arm rear with urethane upgrades. Coilovers on all 4 corners. Lowered of course. Normaly Aspirated nasty Ls motor with a built 4l80. Rack and pinion Steering. Recaro seats. Kickin Stereo. Relocate battery and tank to rear. I'm sure I could come up with more! This would make an awesome ride.

+1 I'd o almost identical except for the auto. I'd most definitely go 6 speed for being able to control precisely when you shift comin into corners and such. And being able to heel toe so you wouldn't break the back tires loose down shifting on the brakes.

Originally Posted by pharmd

I got the motor situation covered, but I am rather new to road race suspension...so give me some pro/cons for the rear suspension (watts link / 3 link vs upgraded stock suspension) and front suspension C5 vs mustang II vs upgraded stock...

I am doing coilovers on my 07' TBSS, already has sway bars, Belltech springs, DJM upper A arms, but the ride quality needs help, hence the coilovers.

Watts link rather than the panhard is because the panhard follows an arc since it attaches at one side, so therefore it pushes and pulls the axle to the side during its range of motion. Whereas a watts link doesn't. Honestly I don't know enough about 3 link vs 4 link to give it proper justice explaining, so I'll defer to someone who knows all the details so I don't misinform. For front suspension, I think its more whatever you feel more comfortable with. I think on this board there are a lot more people running c5 so it would be easier since there is the help, but with mustang 2 its been used forever. Upgraded stock would kinda be ugly, cuz the steering isn't as sharp, and a lot more turn to turn. In the bmw world, 2.5-3 turn to turn which is from being locked in one direction to being locked in the other direction is optimal, so I personally would follow that idea, which with stock it has more slop than a rack and pinion, and also you wouldn't be able to get the turn to turn down from stock, because corner carving will be a really lot of work with a lot of turn to turn cuz you'll have to move your arms so much to get it pointed the right direction.

[Super73]

A 3-link avoids all bind through bumps. A properly set up 4-link can too, but it's not that easy to do. The factory truck arm suspension, all though not bad, isn't adjustable and can cuase binding issues too.

Here is what a 3-link looks like. This is my 73 road race car I am building. http://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=644613

I went with a PH bar due to packaging. Will there be rearend shift through a bump? A little. How much is based on how long the PH bar is.

There are also pics of the front suspension. Had I to do over again, I most likely would have went with C5 or C6 parts. Why? Easily replaceable, light and proven. Mustang 2 stuff is not a bad option, but I think you could get more tire under it with C5 or C6 parts. Either one though has a large aftermarket for brakes ect.. The nice thing about the C5/6 stuff is packaging for your springs. They use a leaf in the front and it sits low and out of the way.

[71shortwide]

I was looking at the 3 link setup but i didnt like how it mounted to the cover and ran across this.

Any one used or seen one like this?

Justin

[Super73]

Thats not a 3-link.. Thats a version of a Watts link.

This is a 3 link:



See how there are (2) lower control arms and (1) upper control arm. That's a 3-link. A 4-link would have 2 uppers and 2 lowers.

A Watts link or Pan Hard Bar keeps the rear end centered under the the car from left to right where the 4-link, 3-link, ladder bar, torque arm ect keeps the rear from moving forward or backwards.

[71shortwide]

Ya thats my mistake sorry

[N2TRUX]

Originally Posted by 71shortwide

....Any one used or seen one like this?Justin

That's a Watts Link kit from KP Components.-LINK

[djracer]

Originally Posted by N2TRUX

That's a Watts Link kit from KP Components.-LINK

I installed one of those watts links with a 6 link air bag setup on my buddies 03 silverado recently. Its very sweet.

[pharmd]

Lots of good information guys...so for my 65' application, to run a 3 link, would I have to custom fab some stuff, or are their companies that make a conversion kit...What kits/systems out there would you all recommend that will require the least amount of custom fabrication, yet allow very good performance?

[Mykk]

Ya know, I've always wanted to build an old pickup with the engine / drivetrain in the bed. To me a short box 65 would prove to be a better candidate for such a project compared to the 67+

It looses it's function as a pickup, but most rods do. And it wouldn't be very weather safe unless it could fit under a tonneau cover. But it would be unique, you could build a nice flashy engine with some cool stacks type induction and really turn heads when you pull the front wheels off the ground with light throttle.

[Super73]

Lateral dynamics makes one for a F-bodies. I personally feel their upper link isn't super stout, but I'm sure it could be made to work in a truck with minimal adjustment. You could add to the upper front mounting point by running 2 trianglulated bars up the the fram.

http://www.lateral-dynamics.com/

http://www.lateral-dynamics.com/products/

[leftcoast66]

Could piece together something from summit. Tragically I think your in uncharted territory as far as most of the big companies are concerned and at least some fab will be needed to make it work.

[pharmd]

Originally Posted by Super73

Lateral dynamics makes one for a F-bodies. I personally feel their upper link isn't super stout, but I'm sure it could be made to work in a truck with minimal adjustment. You could add to the upper front mounting point by running 2 trianglulated bars up the the fram.

http://www.lateral-dynamics.com/

http://www.lateral-dynamics.com/products/

You think that this could be done with minimal intrusion into the bed area?

You mentioned the upper link not being that strong...

Which part were you talking about, would this be a real problem if it wasn't tracked heavily, and could I modify it to be stronger?

[leftcoast66]

Originally Posted by pharmd

You think that this could be done with minimal intrusion into the bed area?

You mentioned the upper link not being that strong...

Which part were you talking about, would this be a real problem if it wasn't tracked heavily, and could I modify it to be stronger?

Looks to me like the top of the axle is the mount that isn't super strong. Yeah you could definitely modify it to make it stronger.

[Super73]

I don't have first hand experiance with this set up. I didn't say it was weak, I said that I felt it "isn't super stout"

If you look at the front mounting point, it is made from what looks like 1x3 square tube and could shear. Now, in the car, they are welding it in to the floor pan which is adding a lot of "sheer" strength.

But still not quite the same as having it backed by some serious tubing.























If I were putting it in a truck, I would not use their front support unless it was severly reinforced.

[Super73]

Here are a few more. BTW, My rear upper mount does wrap the back of the rear housing.

[djracer]

Would that not be real similar to a trailing arm setup with an improved third link to replace the panhard bar?

[Ackattack]

Just build mine with a 65 body [I was planning on building a P/T 68 camaro.....then I decided on "redoing" my 72 GMC....then I bought a 68 SWB C-10....go figure ]

I call mine pro touring, but it may not be in all the since of the term. I guess it's pro touring in looks, but with some other comprimises since it will be multi-purpose (corner carving, maybe an autocross, drag racing, show, and cruiseing)

I put a 4L60E in mine. If I wasn't drag racing (bracket racing to be more specific) I'd have a 6 speed.

If I wasn't planning on showing it, I'd probably go with coil overs instead of the air bags.

I'd also probably run some 17" wheels instead of the bling bling 20s I have on there now.

The rear suspension setup isn't too bad. A lot of the pro-touring guys (camaros and nova along with some others) switch to a "truck arm" suspension. (http://www.hotrodstohell.net/catalog/catalog.htm) One improvement that could be made is have the panhard bar adjustable (as in move the mounting point on the frame up and down). That would be one more thing that could be done to help "tune" it to the track conditions.