american automotive bailout your opinion

[1bad chevy]

i think we should tell them no to the bail out. reson for this is they fly to the white house on private jet's at a cost of $20,000 each when they could have spent less than $300 for a first class air fare. i believe these guy's need to reevaluate what they spend and make as a paycheck. and take cut's from there payroll. alot of us american people live on less than $30,000 a year and seem to do fine. these asshole's make way more than that and are crying poverty.so i say take a pay cut sell your million dollar vaction home and join the real working class people and the economy would be a whole lot better and to think they sell car's at more than what most people make in a year.now mind you i would not buy a foriegn car i love my chevy's but how can these company's cry poverty when they put million's a year in there profit pocket. they should all go to work at mcdonald's and see how that pocket look's after a year. who agree's and disagree's

[1968SWBBigBlock]

This is a tough call.
If you bail them out did you really solve the problem.
The core problem is "legacy cost" GM has 600,000 yes 600,000 retirees. They all have pensions.
We have Union labor costs that are no longer competitve in the world market. Wait before you flame me because I support and am a member in two Union steward programs.
Based on the rules laid out in the federal gov if GM files chapter 11 each of us gets to payout the cost to carry 600,000 retirees plus untold numbers that will lose their jobs due to reorganization.
If we bail them out will it really fox the problem?
If we do not bail them out 10% of the gross domestic product and some of the foundation stones to our economy are shaken.
If others will not invest in our economy because it is unsafe we all lose.
At some point we as consumers and stock holders need to look further down the road and not worry so much about the dividend I am going to get paid this month or the short term profits and start looking for long term gains.
Yes they make way to much money upstairs - yes commercial would have been cheaper but we are truly talking about some high profile folks that have legit security concerns for flying commercial.
This is no easy task - it took many years of good wealth and bad financial choices to paint automakers into the corner they put themselves in - I would not expect the solution to be pretty or easy.

[pcmcobra]

I agree, tough call.
My first reaction from reading many of the biased editorials on this is:
Greed fueled this fire and let them put it out by themselves. Not just GM but the union also.
I just read a long story about the "job banks" the big 3 have had since 1984 and it made me sick to my stomach. Google autoworkers job banks and read for yourselves.
Being laid off myself in 2001, I can understand how tough and stressful it can be, but I took whatever jobs I could to pay the bills until something came along that actually paid more than the job I got laid off from, it took 3 years but it came along. So I don't feel these autoworkers pain, I had to make sacrifices and adjust, and I sure did not ask a single person for a dime.
On the other hand, wow what a mess it is either way. Big 3 should rethink their worker payscale and trim the fat?
If I offended anyone, I apologize, this was not my intent. Just voicing my opinion.

[Mudder]

It's not really about Jets or CEO's making too much money. It's about the millions of middle class workers that work (support) for the auto industry that are loosing their jobs. The auto industry was doing just fine by reducing costs, concessions from the Uaw, and reorganizing until the gas prices went through the roof and then the credit crunch. I take it the rise in gas prices and no credit was their fault also. I agree that the CEO's make too much. So do the CEO's of AIG, Freddy Mac, Citi. How much of your money did they get?

The auto industry is asking for a loan that is to be paid back. I also believe if they do get this loan that GM will take Chrysler.

pcmcobra I worked there for 31 years and I do agree that the job bank should go. What it was really designed to do was a way to keep skilled wokers or unskilled for schooling. It is the younger workers that are getting the advantage of the jobs bank. I worked there and was never in the job bank.

[TennesseeZ]

what about it?

It just ain't right.

Toyota and the rest ain't asking for a handout.

[Mudder]

Toyota and the rest ain't asking for a handout.

Wrong. They are all getting help from their own governments. Have you seen on the news the places in California where they are parking new cars that are imported? The forgein companies may not be hurting as bad as the US but they are all hurting.

[TennesseeZ]

Mudder, that may be, but why should we as taxpayers be forced to subsidize companies who made bad decisions due to bad management and greed?

[Mudder]

I agree. The CEO's should only be paid what is reasonable. Same with the CEO's and banks everywhere. For the auto industry to survive they need people to have the ability to get credit. Very few people buy cars without going to the bank. Why is it alright to bail out wall street ($700 billion) and not main street ($25 billion). Citi bank whom got $45 billon in two installments from the taxpayers is paying the Met's baseball team owners $400 million for naming rights to their stadium.

The three companies are asking for a loan to be paid back. In 1980 the $1 billion dollar loan to Chrysler was paid back and the taxpayers made $300 million in the deal.

[larry may]

Man this lasted longer than I figured it would. never mind.

[TennesseeZ]

Originally Posted by larry may

Man this lasted longer than I figured it would. never mind.

Amen

[CPNE]

Gotta agree with Mudder on this one. A significant chunk of the US economic engine relies on a healthy auto industry. This goes way beyond GM, Ford and Chrysler.

That being said, the stake holders here should be expected to give something in return. Not just business as usual but a whole new paradigm between labor, management, and product mix. Labor needs to make concessions so that the big 3 can be cost competitive, the big 3 need to make vehicles the public wants to buy and move the industry forward with leading edge technology.

[Mudder]

I agree Larry. I should have never replied here being a admin. I have a lot riding on the decisions made this week along with a lot of others that work in the auto related industry. I don't wanna see anyone loose their jobs whatever it is they do. I will lock this and ask Josh/Liz to go over it. They can do whatever they think.