why can't you Z the rear too?

[63 & 64 Bowties]

This is probably a dumb question because I've never done a Z or a notch. But, I'll probably attempt something on my 66 longbed soon.
But I was wondering why I've never seen anyone Z the rear frame just like's done on the front. Looking at the rear, it looks like you could just cut the frame about 10 or 12 inches behind the cab (before the trailing arms pass back under the frame) then just change the pinion angle and bag it using the stock trailing arms. I didn't take measurements, but it looks like it would give you about 6 or 8 inches of drop since the frame is pretty wide there, then with bags on the stock suspension, it may not lay frame, but it should be pretty close.
I started out by saying this is a dumb question, so what am I missing? I'm sure there's something or someone would have already done it.
thanks

[N2TRUX]

Your not missing anything, they just don't call it a Z. It's called a step notch which is very common.

[63 & 64 Bowties]

Originally Posted by N2TRUX

Your not missing anything, they just don't call it a Z. It's called a step notch which is very common.

okay, thanks. I've done hours of research here but I don't think I've seen anyone do it yet. Maybe now I can search step notch.
Do you know who's done one and how much drop you get from the step notch alone?

[71swb4x4]

I think Bill is talking about notching it before the bag mounts. So the bag mounts would move up too.

[63 & 64 Bowties]

Originally Posted by 71swb4x4

I think Bill is talking about notching it before the bag mounts. So the bag mounts would move up too.

yea, I looked at a bunch of step notches and that's not what I mean. I might need to take a picture and do some drawings on it.
Cut the frame 10" from the back of the cab, then raise the rear frame that you just cut off so that the lower frame rail almost meets up with the upper frame rail that's still on the truck, just like's done on the frontends. So, you're left with a stock suspension, only it's about 6" higher now because of the Z. Won't that lower the truck about 6" or so, then you can just use bags in the stock spring location.
(I know that doesn't make sense, I'll need to draw it on a picture)
I'm sure this won't work because I've never seen it done. But, I just can't figure out why it won't work.
Someone call me a dumba$$ so I can stop thinking about this.

[dubdeuce80]

i know what you're talkin about, and yes it's been done. there are a few members on here that have done it, but the names escape me right now. it's actually kind of common instead of doing a notch or custom back half

[leftcoast66]

Originally Posted by 63 & 64 Bowties

yea, I looked at a bunch of step notches and that's not what I mean. I might need to take a picture and do some drawings on it.
Cut the frame 10" from the back of the cab, then raise the rear frame that you just cut off so that the lower frame rail almost meets up with the upper frame rail that's still on the truck, just like's done on the frontends. So, you're left with a stock suspension, only it's about 6" higher now because of the Z. Won't that lower the truck about 6" or so, then you can just use bags in the stock spring location.
(I know that doesn't make sense, I'll need to draw it on a picture)
I'm sure this won't work because I've never seen it done. But, I just can't figure out why it won't work.
Someone call me a dumba$$ so I can stop thinking about this.

With that your gonna need to redo all of the mounts and such, cuz if you move the bag mounts 10" up you'll need to get 10" of travel to get the truck off he ground, if my thinking is correct. Plus you'll have to figure out how to remount the bed, as well as driveshaft, and then where it attaches to the original frame behind the cab. I'd think it would be a lot easier to just do a step notch, or cab back. But it would be different than a lot of people's which is a lot of fun in it of itself.

[LONGHAIR]

The biggest issue with the way you are suggesting is with the bed floor. If you raise the entire frame rail, the bed floor must go up with it. Where as a step notch just requires a "tunnel" between the inner wheel wells and the bed floor can stay in the stock location.

[dubdeuce80]

Originally Posted by leftcoast66

With that your gonna need to redo all of the mounts and such, cuz if you move the bag mounts 10" up you'll need to get 10" of travel to get the truck off he ground, if my thinking is correct. Plus you'll have to figure out how to remount the bed, as well as driveshaft, and then where it attaches to the original frame behind the cab. I'd think it would be a lot easier to just do a step notch, or cab back. But it would be different than a lot of people's which is a lot of fun in it of itself.

he just wants to raise the rear the width of the frame, "the lower frame rail almost meets up with the upper frame rail"

[63 & 64 Bowties]

Originally Posted by leftcoast66

With that your gonna need to redo all of the mounts and such, cuz if you move the bag mounts 10" up you'll need to get 10" of travel to get the truck off he ground, if my thinking is correct. Plus you'll have to figure out how to remount the bed, as well as driveshaft, and then where it attaches to the original frame behind the cab. I'd think it would be a lot easier to just do a step notch, or cab back. But it would be different than a lot of people's which is a lot of fun in it of itself.

I knew I wasn't explaining it right. You're not raising the frame 10", only about 5 or 6". It's just being cut about 10" BEHIND the cab.

Originally Posted by LONGHAIR

The biggest issue with the way you are suggesting is with the bed floor. If you raise the entire frame rail, the bed floor must go up with it. Where as a step notch just requires a "tunnel" between the inner wheel wells and the bed floor can stay in the stock location.

It wouldn't be raising the entire frame, just a section about 4 feet long, from 10" behind the cab to about 1.5 to 2 feet before the tailgate. You'd have to take the inner tubs out anyway, so fabbing up some new bed mounts seems like it would be pretty easy.

I made up this drawing, it's not the best cause I don't have a good drawing program....



I hope you can see it alright. On top is the frame like it is now. Then in the middle the frame cut and sectioned back (like a front-end Z.)
At the bottom, you can see that now with the frame raised where it is the stock trailing arms have a huge amount of travel before they would hit the frame because you've raised it where they normally hit the frame. Now just install bags in the stock spring cups. I would think that with the bags inflated you'd be about 6" lower than stock stance. I just don't know how low it would go. It should go until the stops in the bags.

I don't know, maybe this is crazy. If it is, tell me. I just can't figure why it wouldn't work. One thing about it, it would be cheap to do. I've got two trucks sitting here with no bed wood, my 63 shortbed & my 66 longbed, which I'd like to do something to get it a lot lower. So, it's easy to stand next to the truck and see everything, that's where I came up with this crazy idea.
Just looking for opinions. Why won't it work?

[mycool72]

This has been done a hundred times over, there are a few members on here that have done it, search for z frame....a lot of people do this to avoid the purchase of a notch, however it turns up to be more work with having to move the bed floor up to match....yes you can use bags with this setup no problem.....

[63 & 64 Bowties]

Originally Posted by mycool72

This has been done a hundred times over, there are a few members on here that have done it, search for z frame....a lot of people do this to avoid the purchase of a notch, however it turns up to be more work with having to move the bed floor up to match....yes you can use bags with this setup no problem.....

Every search I've done on z frame comes up front frame.
I probably won't even have a bed floor so I wasn't really concerned about that. Personally I don't like the look of a bed that's only 6" deep. I'd rather just have exposed frame/suspension. I hate to say it but, rat rod.

[daveodom]

Here are a couple pics of my 64'. I had to "z" the rear clip 10" to get the frame to lay on the ground. I'm running a 29" tall tire and shorty bumpstops w/o a notch. The front is 4" z. I cut my frame right through the middle of the front bed mount. I moved the trailing arm mounts up about 6" and everything clears fine. I will have to raise the be floor, but I like the look of a flat wood bed..

[63 & 64 Bowties]

Originally Posted by daveodom

Here are a couple pics of my 64'. I had to "z" the rear clip 10" to get the frame to lay on the ground. I'm running a 29" tall tire and shorty bumpstops w/o a notch. The front is 4" z. I cut my frame right through the middle of the front bed mount. I moved the trailing arm mounts up about 6" and everything clears fine. I will have to raise the be floor, but I like the look of a flat wood bed..

There ya go. That's what I was talking about. Thank you. Your's is the first I've seen. I didn't think about raising the trailing arm mounts. Why did you need to do that? Wow, 10" a lot more than I thought it would take, but that's okay. What about the rear half? Is that going to be Z'd to mount the bumper or will you just make a bracket for that coming down inside the tailgate? Man, I wish you lived closer so I could see your truck. Awesome.
thanks again.

[SCOTI]

'Spray-Bomb' did one of his latest 'versions' of his truck w/a stepped (Z'd) rear clip. Look in the 67-72 build section for his build thread.

I like the idea for it's simplicity (truck arms work fine on these trucks). My hesitation is most of the ones that I've seen pics of leave much to be desired as far as strength.

[Spray-Bomb]

Yeah, doing a rear Z is just fine

As many of yall know, I am not a fan of notches
Now like LONGHAIR said, you are gonna have to raise the bed floor (something most people wont take the time to do)

Here is a couple pics of mine... its not done yet


Sectioning the inside of the bed isnt all that hard, if you can cut strait lines

[63 & 64 Bowties]

cool, thanks bomb.
what are you doing about the rear? how are you attaching the bumper or are you running a roll pan?

[Spray-Bomb]

Well you have to drop the rear of the frame down for the bed to bolt on & I havent decided if Im using a bumper or a roll pan yet

[daveodom]

Originally Posted by 63 & 64 Bowties

There ya go. That's what I was talking about. Thank you. Your's is the first I've seen. I didn't think about raising the trailing arm mounts. Why did you need to do that? Wow, 10" a lot more than I thought it would take, but that's okay. What about the rear half? Is that going to be Z'd to mount the bumper or will you just make a bracket for that coming down inside the tailgate? Man, I wish you lived closer so I could see your truck. Awesome.
thanks again.

You need to raise the trailing arm mounts to compensate for raising the rear axle. Otherwise the axle will be pulling forward when the suspension is compressed and the driveshaft will have to travel more as well. As far as the rear half I've been thinking of making a storage area behind the rear axle and mounting a receiver hitch with some drop down brackets where the roll pan goes. In my opinion this is the quickest and cleanest ways to do this as long as you don't mind a shallow bed..