2004R vs. 700R4?

[bryanw1968]

I have a 2004R that was built by a buddy of mine and a 3000 convertor to go along with it. He says he's "beefed it up". I've still heard otherwise and that the 700R4 is still the way to go with a truck. I haven't installed it yet and may try to sell it depending what I find out. Any advise would be appreciated.
Thanks,
B

[bryanw1968]

One more question.....Is my B&M ratchet shifter for the turbo 350 I currently have going to work with the 200?
Thanks,
B

[Longhorn Man]

the answer will depend on your intended use of the truck.
Did he tell you what he did to "beef it up"?
What's your engine combo?
Whats your rear gear ratio?

[jorgensensc]

It really depends on your application. I have one in my '56 Bel Air and it is fine behind a very mild 350 that is driven like a granny car. I'm not sure how it would handle slot of horsepowernor torque unless it was built by a reliable shop (like Phoenix transmissions ) or id your buddy is really good.
Shawn

[Mondo]

do a search on this site for the 200r. There's more out there than I thought, including mine.

[MrC1]

I always heard that the 2004R is stronger than the 700R4.

[HeavyD]

A recent issue of CarCraft had a buildup of a 200 by Art Carr. Worth a read.

[Gray Ghost]

In stock form and in most builds the 700 is tougher. There are a few Buick GN 200's that are tougher than 700's but they are rare...they are completely different from the normal 2004r.

[shortbed70]

DD with short shaft 350 trans go with 2004r but keep your foot out of it if you will be hammering on it go 700r4 and you can probably modify your shifter to work. I have a b&m from a 350 non ratchet shifter and I had to grind some on the slider slot so I could get low gear but If your not worried about pulling manual low then it will work fine. Also be sure to set the tv cable by pressure or by a good kit like tv made easy.

[jbird76]

I had a 200 on my BNuick skylark with a 455. It was beefed up pretty good, to handle an 11.5 sec car.

The benifit of the 200 is that there is a closer ratio between first and second gears, where as the 700 has a big drop off. The 700 has a steeper first gear, I think over 3:1 and the 200 is around 2.7:1. Both are much steeper than the th400, and lighter.

I had the whole thing done my Jimmy's trans shop in Mundelein IL, it was like $1800 with a new drive shaft that was balanced. THat was with a lock up converter controlled from the dash. I think I could get 17 mpg on the highway and go about 1900-2000 rpm at 65 with 3.42 rear gears.

[67_C-30]

Originally Posted by jbird76

I had a 200 on my BNuick skylark with a 455. It was beefed up pretty good, to handle an 11.5 sec car.

The benifit of the 200 is that there is a closer ratio between first and second gears, where as the 700 has a big drop off. The 700 has a steeper first gear, I think over 3:1 and the 200 is around 2.7:1. Both are much steeper than the th400, and lighter.

I had the whole thing done my Jimmy's trans shop in Mundelein IL, it was like $1800 with a new drive shaft that was balanced. THat was with a lock up converter controlled from the dash. I think I could get 17 mpg on the highway and go about 1900-2000 rpm at 65 with 3.42 rear gears.

Great 1st post! Welcome to the board!

I also a fan of the 200 for the reasons above. I don't like the steep drop from 1st to 2nd with 700. Truth be told, neither are particularly strong in stock form, but the according to Art Carr and other people that build racing transmissions, the 200 can be built to stronger than the 700. The fact that 200 can be put in without cutting the driveshaft and the better gear spacing makes it the best choice, IMO. From a gearing standpoint, the 200 is basically has the same ratios as a TH350, with .67 : 1 OD.

Here's the article that Heavy D referred to:

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...ild/index.html

Art Carr loves the GM 700-R4 overdrive automatic as much as the next guy. The problem is, the stock stuff tends to blow up when subjected to real power. That's why he's a huge supporter of the 200-4R overdrive automatic. Blessed by GM's Hydramatic Division with superior guts, it only takes a few well-chosen tweaks to make a 200-4R live behind as much as 1,000 hp. Got a 6-71 supercharged 468 Rat motor in your daily driver-like Robbie Whitlock's '66 Chevelle? Carr can build you a 200-4R that'll take the gaff. We stopped by Carr's California Performance Transmission and came away impressed by the 200-4R's clear advantage over competing four-speed automatics. First off, the 200-4R is an analog transmission. That means, unlike the 4L80E and its lesser "E" siblings, it isn't dependant on a computer to tell it what to do. This fact alone means the cost of a rebuildable core is much lower, a savings that quickly trickles down to your wallet.

While it is true that the 700-R4 is also analog and rebuildable cores are priced as low as the TH200-4R, it has a fatal flaw in the form of a weak input shaft and drum assembly. Its lightweight aluminum construction limits capacity to around 500 hp, less if the car is heavy.

The hassle is the drum is a very complex part and so far nobody has invested in the tooling required to manufacture a superior aftermarket replacement. On the other hand, the 200-4R is free of this inherent deal breakers. Oh sure, it's ripe for improvement, and this story outlines just a few of the steps Carr takes to bring one up to snuff. We'll show you that in a minute. But the 200-4R has other inherent advantages over the 700-R4. Let's make a list:


*At 27 3/4 inches, it's the same length as a Powerglide or short-tail TH350, so swappers can reuse the driveshaft without modifications. By contrast, the 700-R4 measures 30 3/4 inches and generally requires a custom-length driveshaft.

*If you swap it for a 28 1/4-inch short-tail TH400, just change yokes and the original driveshaft fits.

*It shares the same 26 3/4 face-to-mount distance as the short-tail TH400, so it'll bolt right up to the TH400 transmission crossmember.

*The 700-R4's 3.06 First gear ratio is a little too much of a good thing for most applications. The 200-4R's 2.74:1 ratio makes more sense for V-8s, where low-end torque is in good supply.

*The overdrive ratio-0.70 for the 700-R4, 0.67 for the 200-4R-is virtually identical, but the 200-4R offers a better ratio spread (2.74, 1.57, 1:1, 0.67), which reduces rpm drops during gear changes. The 700-R4's ratios (3.06, 1.63, 1:1, 0.70) cause a drastic 46 percent rpm drop on the 1-2 upshift.

*GM designed the 700-R4 valvebody to prevent overdrive access at full-throttle to ensure survival. Not a good sign. The 200-4R is free of such nonsense and is ready for big-block overdrive blasting with only minor beefing.

*The TH200-4R case has a dual-bolt pattern that fits Chevy, as well as all BOP V-8 blocks. The 700-R4 case requires an adapter behind non-Chevy blocks.

By now it should be clear there's a pretty strong case-pun intended-for the 200-4R. Let's dig in and see how Carr makes it live with big power.