Eating Starter Solenoids

[67L30WGN]

I've just burnt out my third starter solenoid in less than 3000 miles of short drives. I'm wondering if this is heat related as the truck starts instantly on the first turn of the key in the mornings, but starts to 'click' after that. Yes, I can jump it with a screw driver and start the engine that way. When taken apart, the disc is burnt all around. The truck has a stock 350 with factory exhaust manifolds. No heat shield, but is it necessary? Thoughts on why this is happening?

[sneakysnake]

Your windings may be shorting causing a higher amp draw on the sol. Try replacing the whole assy. Might check to see that the bat cables are good and have a good connection and that the engine is grounded, any of these can cause high amp draw and shorten the life of starter and sol.

[VetteVet]

The fact that you can jump the starter tells me your problem is heat soak.
It means you are losing voltage at the solenoid when the engine warms up.
There are some options you can do to fix it.
1.A heat shield may do it and you can keep your starter.
2. A heat shield and a remote Ford type solenoid most likely will fix it.
3. A high torque mini-starter.
IF you choose option two there are some threads here in the forums that explain the
installation if you're not familiar with it.

[67L30WGN]

Thanks guys.

[67L30WGN]

Haven't been driving the truck much due to having to use a screw driver every time I want to start it. I continue to eat solenoids (the discs get all welded up). On my fourth solenoid in about 5K miles.

What I've done. New battery, new batt cables, new starter, added heat shield and new solenoids. About all that is left is the purple wire from the firewall fuse block to the solenoid. I'm ready to order a new ignition wiring harness. How can I test the purple wire to see if it is still good or not?

I should add that I am trying to keep it stock, thus have not gone the Ford solenoid or mini starter route.

[cdowns]

i'd clean your grounds especially the starter to block contact area and the motor to frame and both ends of each battery cable

[Longhorn Man]

Bad grounds wouldn't do this.
Where are you getting these starters? Are they the bottom of the line craptastic chainstore ones?

[dougminton]

The purple wire isnt supplying enough amperage to hold the solenoid closed hence the clicking. Easiest solution f$%d solenoid. Correct solution new wiring.

[67L30WGN]

Originally Posted by Longhorn Man

Bad grounds wouldn't do this.
Where are you getting these starters? Are they the bottom of the line craptastic chainstore ones?

NAPA Auto Parts is always my first choice. AC Delco when I can get them. The last solenoid was by Duralast "manufactured using high-quality materials for long life". Of course it was made in China for US distribution. Before you jump on the China thing, it actually lasted longer than the others, but that could have been due to the new battery, heat shield and battery cables. We'll never know for sure.

I think it can't hurt for me to check my grounds. Anyone know how to check that purple wire? Could the heat from the exhaust and/or regular use caused it to build up resistance over the years?

[cdowns]

bad incoplete grounds can and will cause wires and solenoids to overheat nomatter what some may say

[Lee H]

About option 3, A high torque mini-starter, there was a thread awhile back that listed the GM part number but now I can't find it. Does anyone remember?

[custom1970]

Originally Posted by Lee H

About option 3, A high torque mini-starter, there was a thread awhile back that listed the GM part number but now I can't find it. Does anyone remember?

Put a high-torgue on my truck and it's working great, much easier to install due to weight and seems to run a lot cooler since it's smaller, less steel and father away from the hot stuff stuff. It cost $145.00 , i bought it from my local starter shop so it came with real actual warrenty.

[oldblue1968chevy]

Mine eats them about 1 per year. Im on my 3rd one. (carquest).

[Wrenchbender Ret]

Wires dont hardly build up resistance except at the connections. Check at the back of the ignition switch. They are known to get hot & burn the connectors, especialy the red main hotb wire. I would put the Ford type selinoid on it. You can put it down on the frame where it is not noticeable. I have solved many problems with that. It takes the load off the purple wire & the ign & neutral switch. I usually put one on every thing I restore just for reliability.

[67L30WGN]

Originally Posted by Wrenchbender Ret

Wires dont hardly build up resistance except at the connections. Check at the back of the ignition switch. They are known to get hot & burn the connectors, especialy the red main hotb wire. I would put the Ford type selinoid on it. You can put it down on the frame where it is not noticeable. I have solved many problems with that. It takes the load off the purple wire & the ign & neutral switch. I usually put one on every thing I restore just for reliability.

Forgot to mention I also replaced the ignition switch, but did not check the red wire. I'll do that.

I used to install Ford solenoids inside my demolition derby cars on the tranny hump so I could start the cars with a screw driver on the fly. They never let me down.

[67L30WGN]

I think I may have figured out the problem with my wiring issue. I just received a new wiring harness and before tearing out the old, I compared each wire run. Based on what I'm seeing, it looks to me as though a previous owner at one time must have installed an HEI distributor, because the resistance wire had been clipped out just as it entered the wire gutter, and removed. No longer needed, they also took the yellow wire that normally runs from the (+) side of the coil to the (R) side of the starter solenoid and removed it from the solenoid end and shortened it, leaving a pigtail at the coil. They then connected the yellow pigtail at the coil with red, non-resistance wire to the clipped end of the original resistance wire back near the block.

As purchased by me the truck has the original points-type distributor in place and as I just discovered, I have no wire running between the (+) of the coil and the (R) side of the solenoid and I have no resistor wire. Interesting! When I have time, I'll replace all and test things out. I'm betting this is the source of all my solenoid woes. Now I want to mentally figure out what is happening electrically that the solenoid discs have been welding themselves and why, despite that, the truck ran great and otherwise started great.

[67L30WGN]

Reason for solenoid failure: With a points type distributor and the resistor wire replaced by a non-resistor type, a greater proportion of electricity must have bled off to the coil when it should have been going to the solenoid. Because of this, the solenoid would not make a strong connection (pull the disk into place) in order for the battery to send voltage to the starter. The solenoid disk probably barely made contact, causing it to arc. The arcing over time would destroy the disk inside the solenoid. Sound about right?

[Steve Van Gent]

Here is a trick I picked up from old mechanic-has solved this issue on my older GM starters....

Remove the selinoid from starter and clip 1 to 1.5 wraps off the return spring. Careful clipping this off, wear eye protection! reassemble.

This reduces the spring force that must be overcome by the primary selinoid. Just make sure you have enough spring left to return the starter gear back to non-engaged position.

I have had three trucks with this problem, it has fixed all three. This assumes wiring and ground are all OK...

[67L30WGN]

That's a great idea, and simple, too. K.I.S.S. I'll try it if I continue to have problems after returning the wiring to stock.

[Longhorn Man]

your wire issue would have no effect on the starter. The starter feeds the coil in the crank position via that yellow wire, not the coil feeding the starter.
The resistance wire drops the power, 8 or so volts if memory serves. This makes the points last longer. When you turn the key to start, the power goes from the ignition switch to the starter through the purple on the S terminal on the starter. This activates the starter, but also, when the starter is activated, the R terminal gets full 12 volts, and sends it up to the points. What this does is gives the coil more power for more spark for a quicker start.

[67L30WGN]

That's true, if you have the yellow wire and if you also have the resistor wire to control the flow to the coil. I have neither. I've got a points-type distributor with HEI wiring.

If juice could only get to my coil when cranking via the purple wire, it would reach a dead end. Some juice has to be finding its way to the coil in order to start via the only route available and that is through that non-resistor wire the PO installed where the resistor wire once lay. Right?

[Longhorn Man]

Originally Posted by 67L30WGN

That's true, if you have the yellow wire and if you also have the resistor wire to control the flow to the coil. I have neither. I've got a points-type distributor with HEI wiring.

If juice could only get to my coil when cranking via the purple wire, it would reach a dead end. Some juice has to be finding its way to the coil in order to start via the only route available and that is through that non-resistor wire the PO installed where the resistor wire once lay. Right?

the resistor wire was still hot in crank mode, but it was the reduced voltage. I mave my HEI wired to that spot on the fuse block. So the power goes to the coil through that spot on the fuse block like it has for the last 40 years.

[67L30WGN]

Originally Posted by Longhorn Man

the resistor wire was still hot in crank mode, but it was the reduced voltage. I mave my HEI wired to that spot on the fuse block. So the power goes to the coil through that spot on the fuse block like it has for the last 40 years.

Exactly, the reduced voltage was reduced. So now, with a standard wire instead of the resistor wire, I've got more voltage going to the coil and less going to the solenoid. There's no gate keeper. So then, I guess I should ask the question; do points use more voltage then pointless? I'm guessing yes, and this is why not enough juice is getting to the solenoid circuit during cranking, and thus causing it to arc.

Either we're saying the same thing in different terms, or I'm being dense. If you are trying to tell me that it doesn't matter what wiring I have - HEI or points type - with a points type distributor, then something else is causing all these solenoids to arc, and short of adding extra ground straps and reducing the spring height as suggested above, I can't imagine what it would be.

[hotroddr]

If you havent done it already, I would suggest you run a dedicated ground wire to the starter, this fixed my hot start problem. This is easy and it cant hurt, remember K.I.S.S.

[67L30WGN]

Originally Posted by hotroddr

If you havent done it already, I would suggest you run a dedicated ground wire to the starter, this fixed my hot start problem. This is easy and it cant hurt, remember K.I.S.S.

Did you ground to the block or the frame? I'm assuming the starter makes good contact with the block already.