Auto To Manual Trans Swap

[MJones]

I have read enough postings to see there is tons of knowledge here. Wish I had found this site sooner. My son and I have a 72 C10 350/350 turbo auto trans, column shift. I see alot of guys are going from manual to automatic and we would like to do just the oppossite. I have to admit banging some gears is fun.

We would like to install a 3 or 4 speed on the floor. Any advice on how difficult this will be? Reccomend a tranny? The truck has a small hump. Will this require alot of tunnel cutting? Hanging a clutch? New drive shaft? Are kits available? Hopefully someone has been through this before.

Thanks in advance

['72customdeluxe]

Here's a complete 5-speed kit available, but it's pricey.
http://www.classicchevy5speed.com/GM...it-Select.aspx
Maybe you could use a t-10 or m-22 four speed

[prostreetC-10]

I'll just point out a few things. If you are going from a standard TH350, a GM 4 speed should be the same length so you will be okay on the driveline. The only tricky thing will be getting the pedals and fabbing up the bell crank. Don't mess with the hump....just go and get a high hump. It will turn out much better than modifying your small one.

I think an M-20 is a fairly inexpensive way to go. You can get into a standard BW T-10 4 speed pretty cheap too. I'm running an M-22 which are super spendy and not really needed for a small block. What is nice about the M-20 over the M-22 is a shorter first gear. Given the M-22 is a close ratio, getting started in first gear is a little harder on the clutch than the lower 1st M-20. JMHO....I would not even think about a manual 3 speed. If nothing more, a 4 speed will help resale value down the road.

I so agree with you on banging gears. My truck is a freaking blast to drive with the 4 speed. It's sooooo fun to down shift 3 times each time you come to a stop!!!

[BossHogg69]

I went from a TH400 to a TREMEC TKO500 5 speed with a hydraullic clutch. I love the overdrive and the hydraulic clutch is easy on the left leg, even with the 12' Centerforce dual friction clutch I'm using. I was a little expensive ($2400) after it was all said and done, but it's a blast to drive and really is nice on the free way with the .68 fifth gear.

I do agree with prostreetC-10, an M20 or M21 would be the way to go if you want a 4 speed, you can dig up all GM parts and make that happen. Or you could even go the hydraulic clutch route with the Muncie if you didn't want to mess with tracking down the factory linkage parts. It's a pretty easy setup to install.

[Jim_PA]

My truck had a TH350 in it when I got it. The Super T-10 was the same length as the TH350, so I didn't have to cut the driveshaft or re-locate the crossmember. I just had to make a hole for the shifter. You'll need a complete z-bar and linkage setup from a small block truck. Your selection of bellhousings is pretty large, as long as you don't get one from the 50's, it should work. You can replace the pedals without replacing the whole pedal assembly too, just pull the rod that goes through the brake pedal, and replace with a 3-pedal rod.

Super T-10's are basically newer muncies. They used them all the way up to 1982 in Camaros and Firebirds. They offer more selection in gear ratios, and they are less sought-after by chevelle, corvette, and camaro owners, so you can usually find them much cheaper than muncie 4 speeds.

I picked mine up for $85 bucks, rebuilt it for around $150 (which I don't think it needed...) The most expensive part was the shifter, I think that whole competition plus deal cost about $350. New flywheel was $45, clutch was in the $150 area, bellhousing $10, z-bar, linkage, clutch fork; I think I paid $40 from another member. Somewhere around $800 I have in mine.

I like it a lot - shifts great, fun to drive, but I still want a Tremec 5-speed (which I've heard they don't shift near as nice as muncies/super t-10's).

[prostreetC-10]

Jim,
Are you sure you are not talking about the straight T-10? At least where I live, a true super T-10 goes for a lot of money and if you found one for $85, that was the deal of the century. I know it's easy to confuse the two. The super will have an aluminum case and there really aren't too many out there....at least not nearly as many as the T-10's. One reason is because as the horse power really started to drop, there was no real need for the strength of the supers or the Muncie M-21 or 22. I had a correct and original '73 Z28 camaro and it only came with an M-20 due to the decline in power from 69, 70..etc.

[Jim_PA]

Originally Posted by prostreetC-10

Jim,
Are you sure you are not talking about the straight T-10? At least where I live, a true super T-10 goes for a lot of money and if you found one for $85, that was the deal of the century. I know it's easy to confuse the two. The super will have an aluminum case and there really aren't too many out there....at least not nearly as many as the T-10's. One reason is because as the horse power really started to drop, there was no real need for the strength of the supers or the Muncie M-21 or 22. I had a correct and original '73 Z28 camaro and it only came with an M-20 due to the decline in power from 69, 70..etc.

Yeah, I'm talking about the super T-10. Mine came out of a 78 T/A. Super T-10's replaced muncie in 1975, so I would imagine any 4-speed car after 1974 with a BW transmission should be a super T-10, unless it was replaced.

[70 shorty]

I'm pretty sure my Corvette has the super T-10 also. It is the original transmission to the car and I'm pretty sure that's what they came with. Mine is the close ratio and it shifts great, so there might be another place to look for one. If I ever do the 5 spd swap I want to do in the Corvette, the 4 spd that's in it is going in the truck in place of the 3 spd that's in it.

[prostreetC-10]

Dang....I don't know if it's an East Coast thing but when you find a Super T-10 out here....they are hundreds of dollars. He's in Maryland so that might be good for him. The last T-10 I had was from an '82 or '83 Camaro. I want to say it has the AS3 tag on it. It was the iron 904 case and was not a super. I know Muncies better than T-10's so that's good information. I will say that if you can get one relatively cheap (not knowing what your budget is) it is a strong trans. Behind a small block, it would be hard to break. Problem with out junk yards out here is that you would never find a car with the 4 speed still in it!!!

[Jim_PA]

Originally Posted by prostreetC-10

Dang....I don't know if it's an East Coast thing but when you find a Super T-10 out here....they are hundreds of dollars. He's in Maryland so that might be good for him. The last T-10 I had was from an '82 or '83 Camaro. I want to say it has the AS3 tag on it. It was the iron 904 case and was not a super. I know Muncies better than T-10's so that's good information. I will say that if you can get one relatively cheap (not knowing what your budget is) it is a strong trans. Behind a small block, it would be hard to break. Problem with out junk yards out here is that you would never find a car with the 4 speed still in it!!!

Are you sure you properly identified that iron case 4-speed? It would either be a Saginaw or a Super T-10.

I didn't think a regular T-10 existed in production cars after '63

Heck, maybe I can sell mine complete, and buy that Tremec I've been wanting.

[Jim_PA]

Originally Posted by prostreetC-10

I want to say it has the AS3 tag on it. It was the iron 904 case and was not a super.

Man, if you have a BW AS3 with a 904 case, it's pretty much the heaviest of the heavy-duty super T-10's out there.

[prostreetC-10]

You know how if you think about something long enough....you start confusing yourself? With my little brain, that's not hard to do.

It seemed that the super T's had a 26 spline input and mine was 10. It also seemed that the output was more like a TH400 and mine was the smaller TH350. Maybe I am way off on what year it was. One thing I am not off of is the fact that you can't pick them up for a couple hundred dollars out here. I got $350 for my last regular T-10. Sorry but I highly doubt you will be able to sell yours though and get into a Tremec. Those are sweet trans!