Need help ... Ebay ripoff

[Hammer500]

Hi
I won a 1972 Cheyenne on eBay on June 21, 2009 in Davenport Iowa. The listing stated below:

1972 CHEVY CHEYENNE SUPER HALF TON BIG BLOCK, AT, AC, PS, PB. AND RALLEY WHEELS. I HAVE OWNED THIS TRUCK FOR 15 YEARS. IT CAME FROM MISSISSIPPI. IT WAS REPAINTED APROX. 12 YEARS AGO. IT IS A DEPENDABLE TRUCK THAT YOU CAN DRIVE ANYWHERE. 400 cid BIG BLOCK HAS PLENTY OF POWER AND IS FUN TO DRIVE. TRUCK HAS AIR CONDITIONING, BUT HASNT WORKED FOR SEVERAL YEARS. IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR A $35,000 TRAILER QUEEN, THIS IS NOT THE TRUCK. IF YOU WANT A TRUCK THAT IS FUN TO DRIVE AND STILL TURNS HEADS EVERYWHERE IT GOES, THIS COULD BE YOUR TRUCK. PAINT IS NOT PERFECT BUT STILL LOOKS NICE. I JUST HAVENT DROVE IT MUCH THE LAST 3 YEARS. SHOWS 85000 MILES ON ODOMETER. SERIOUS BIDDERS ONLY PLEASE. THANKS FOR LOOKING AND GOOD LUCK.

I noticed a few things about the truck that would not make it a $35000 show, like the fact that it had a saddle-colored steering column, the seat had a rip, etc. The body of the truck looked really good from the pictures. I contacted the owner after I won the bid and asked about the body and he said it had rockers and cab corners replaced by a professional body man 12 years ago when it was painted. He made the truck sound as if it was solid with the exception of the twelve-year-old paint. I paid for the truck through PayPal and then a buddy of mine, who is a licensed mechanic, drove 1550 miles in my old 69 to get the truck. When we drove into the parking lot where the truck was sitting, I could see the rust bubbling from under the paint on the boxside and doors. When we got out and looked it over, all the cab support rubbers were gone and one of the cab mount bolts was missing. It had a low hump carpet and you could see the whole through the floor on both side of the truck. I went in and tried to discuss the problems with seller; he refused to listen to me. He repeated that he listed it correctly and it was my truck. I left to call eBay. The representative told me not to worry as I have coverage; she told me to go and find interenet and go to live help. I did that and spoke with the live help and they told me to send an email to the Vehicle Protection Program and wait for their response which could take up 24-48 hours. I asked them what I should do - if I had to stay with the truck or leave. I am getting married August 8th so I couldn't wait around. I made one more attempt to talk to the seller which lead nowhere as he became beligerent and kicked us out.

The response I got from the vehicle protection report is as follows:

Thank you for writing eBay in regard to the 1972 Chevrolet Cheyenne you
won.

We're sorry you ran into trouble with the purchase of your vehicle.

Unfortunately, because you do not have possession of the vehicle, your
transaction isn't eligible for reimbursement under the eBay Motors
Vehicle Purchase Protection program. Reimbursement requests must be
filed while the buyer is still in possession of the vehicle, and buyers
need to get written consent from the VPP program administrator before
altering, repairing, selling, or releasing possession of a vehicle
they've bought.

There are still some things you can do, though.

-- Talk with your seller --
If you haven't already done so, try getting in touch with your seller
directly. Often a simple phone call is all it takes to resolve a
difficult situation.

To request the seller's contact information:
1. Click the "Advanced Search" link at the top of most eBay pages.
2. Click "Find contact information" link under the "Members" heading on
the left side of the page.
3. Enter the member's user ID and the item number.
4. Click the "Search" button. You may be asked to sign in.

We'll email you the seller's contact information, including phone
number. (We send the seller your contact information at the same time.)

Learn more about our Vehicle Purchase Protection program: http://pages.motors.ebay.com/buy/pur...ion/index.html

-- File a complaint with the Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3) --
A partnership between the FBI, the National White Collar Crime Center,
and the Bureau of Justice Assistance, the Internet Crime Complaint
Center monitors cybercrime and sends information to the appropriate
local, state, or federal agencies. (Unlike on eBay, you can't close a
complaint that you open, so make sure you have all the information you
need before you file a complaint.)

Learn how to file a complaint with the IC3:
http://www.ic3.gov

-- Contact your local police department --
If necessary, you can report your seller to the police, either where you
live or in the seller's area. (The seller's contact information or the
address to which you sent payment will tell you where the seller is
located.)

Find law enforcement officers by area:
http://www.usacops.com

-- Since your payment was sent outside the country you live in, we
recommend that you file a report with econsumer.gov, a multinational
group that helps resolve cross-border incidents.

econsumer.gov has information that may help you resolve your problem and
get your money back. They can also help you file a complaint, which will
inform consumer protection agencies in more than 20 countries around the
world, including Canada, the United Kingdom, Australia, and Japan, about
your issue. Filing a report may help law enforcement spot new trends in
Internet crime and prevent others from having similar problems.

For more information on econsumer.gov, visit:
http://www.econsumer.gov/english/

Read about how eBay collaborates with local, federal, and international
law enforcement:
http://pages.ebay.com/securitycenter...forcement.html

If you need further assistance, please don't hesitate to reply to this
email and let us know.

I paid $5850 US for this truck which worked out to be $7000 CAD - a lot of money for a vehicle in this shape. Has anyone had an experience like this or have any advice for me? Please help!

[dave2953]

Do you have any pics of the truck? A lot of guys that are prospective buyers for vehicles often ask members located close to the vehicle to check it out for them. There are lots of things that can be easily hidden in a picture, only to stick out like a sore thumb when seen in person. It sucks that you are in this position. By the sounds of the sellers attitude, it appears he knew everything that was wrong with the truck. The Ebay response says they couldn't help you because you didn't have possession of the vehicle. Did you leave it after paying for it?

[big_al_71]

I have said this a bunch of times, if I am buying something of a substantial amount of money I want to see it, touch it, feel it, kick it or sit in it before i buy, everything looks awesome in picts and there are a bunch of liars in this world..As far as ebay I cant help you but I know you can file a claim with paypal and they can credit your money...Good luck

[Sinister]

You paid for the truck and didn't take it? Ouch. Best of luck.

[Rack Man]

If you paid for it...why didn't you take it?....Its yours!....

IMO, Vehicles & Ebay are for advertisement only....I've had people fly over2000 miles to come look at a car....and I as the seller told them that I would refund their flight if the car was not exactly as I represented it.....Its a buyer beware world....I'm sorry it happened to you but you really should have made the trip to inspect it or at least asked for a million High Resolution detailed pics....I've bought that way before!

[topdog]

Sounds like you need to take possession of the truck then contact e-bay again.

[Boog]

For $5850 I'd be taking possession of something!
Of course at 1500 miles it isn't real handy to drive it back home and then maybe have to take it back to the seller later.
But he's got your money!

[Hammer500]

Yes I left the truck there. The ebay representative that I talked assured me that I had vehicile protection. She had me contact another representative through live help and I asked her the same question if I can leave the vehicle, I was not prepared to haul it back when it was not at all what I was lead to believe I was buying. They made me feel safe that I was going to get a reimbursement. It said it could be driven anywhere when I could almost tear the cab of the frame by the door handle. PayPal does not have any protection for anything bought through eBay motors.

[tap500]

Can you send the item number on ebay so that we are all aware of this scammer if you get your money back and he tries to sell it or anything else again.

I had a similar situation, i bought a 71 GMC on ebay and spoke to the guy on the phone before buying it. he told me it was a daily driver, great shape, etc. the pics looked good so I bought it. I hated to have to send the money without seeing it, but I couldn't register it to drive it home without the title.

When I got there it ran out of gas while idling for five minutes, the radiator leaked water faster than I could put it in and the shifter on the column was for show and a standard column shift turned 180 for the photo. the real shifter was a piece of metal you jiggled through a hole that was punched and not cut in the floor. The motor wasn't even bolted down. The power steering pump was hitting the crank pulley due to bolts sheared off in the block. The seller said he was selling it for a friend and I knew it was mine, so i went to the parts store, got a radiator, changed it in his driveway, of course being carefult o be extra messy, tied the pump off to the side and drove the 1000 miles home. I lost a quart of oil every 75 miles due to a punctured timing chain cover. I made it home though breathing the leaking oil that burned off on the exhast.

Ebay was on his side as they always are, all their advertisements of helping against scammers is a joke, in every situation I have had where I paid and never recieved the item, not as advertised or buy one thing and send another, ebay does nothing. So I stopped using ebay unless the seller has over 100 items and 99% or better. Moral of the story is be careful and only spend on ebay what you can afford to lose.

Get your documentation in order and try all sources, US postal service may be able to claim wire fraud if he sent anything in the mail. FBI or state agencies may help and keep updating ebay that you have gotten the authorities envolved and this is for real. they may change their tune. The seller may also start charging storage so since you own the truck you may want to get it with lots of pics and video to document it. Also send the seller a registered mail letter documenting you feel he defrauded you and why. Good luck.

[tcb-1]

Originally Posted by tap500

Can you send the item number on ebay so that we are all aware of this scammer if you get your money back and he tries to sell it or anything else again.

agreed 100%

[19stepSide72]

maybe you could have a local member take possesion for you. Then talk to EBAY again. Just an idea.

[mclairmo]

I would demand that Paypal rescind the payment. If they refuse, formally contest the charge on your credit card (assuming your fund PayPal with a credit card, which should always be the way you do it)and do not pay that portion of your credit card bill. The credit card company will then send a letter to PayPal regarding you contesting the $5,850 charge. If PayPal does not argue against the credit card's letter, then the credit card company should issue you a credit for the $5,850. If Ebay, PayPal and your credit card company will not do anything to help and your credit card company demands that you pay that $5,850 (or if you fund your PayPal acct with a bank acct), then contact the Iowa police department for that city and the district attorney's office for that county in Iowa and report the theft. tell them he threw you out before you could really decide if wanted to take possession. You then must retain an Iowa attorney near to the city where the seller lives, likely the biggest city near there. Have the attorney prepare and serve a demand letter upon the seller threatening a civil action for breach of contract, conversion, fraud and breach of the covenant of good faith and fair dealing. He should be able to draft it for less than $500. If that does not work, you must then sue the seller in small claims court in the county where the seller lives. Check the small claims amount in controversy limits and be sure you can sue for more than $5,000. If not, you can always sue for whatever the limit is and waive the remainder. You could sue in superior court but the filing fee will be much more and you will likely need an attorney torepresent you in that action, which will cost more than its worth. The other option is to take possession of the truck and then sue the seller as set forth above. At least you would then have the truck. If the court finds that the seller misrepresented the condition of the truck, you may be awarded some damages.

[killacheyenne]

just another good story of someone that bought something by a picture....i could make anytruck look decent in pics with a few rattle cans and about 30 minutes..

[jeremy zander]

I had a similiar situation with Ebay...I posted this a while back..The good thing for me was I called out the liar ahead of time and agreed to only pay for the vehicle in person with no down payment..I bought a rust free 1972 3/4 4x4 AZ truck for $1650(ya rite)..The day after sale he said the bank came and took it cause of his banckruptcy..No truck...no money....be careful......

[19673ontree]

ebay pulled out of the disputes a while back , all you have to do is wait 7 day's file a paypal dispute and paypal will give your money back , paypal view's ALL seller's as SCUM you are the buyer you are A GOD in paypal's eye's ,

[1sik52]

I had a similar situation with a D!@khead in texas with a LS1 that I bought. When I contacted ebay the representatives kept telling me that I was covered under the buyers protection plan and that i had to wait and all and then in the end they said SORRY! I demanded a supervisor to get on the phone and after about an hour of 3 way with ebay and paypal they refunded me my 3,000. Who says *****ing dont get you anywhere!

[1968SWBBigBlock]

I think I would pick up the phone and call the local police in the town where the truck sits.
Explain to them the situation and ask them to speak to the owner.
Be willing to press charges if they ask.
Theft by deception over $5000.00 is a felony in many states.
I could care less how you bought it - if it was a legal transaction and the owner fragrantly misrepresented the item you have legal recourse.
It is also helpful to contact an attorney and have them write a letter seeking a refund - most folks do not want to mess with lawyers or the law!

[1968SWBBigBlock]

If it makes you feel any better I have walked in your shoes - except I had to drive only 275 miles to see a truck I bought
Rust free = softball size bondo patches falling out
Runs good = rearend that whines like a supercharger
Tonnu cover = 8' long cover on a 6' bed - so you just take the last 2 feet tuck it into the bed and do not bother to snap the area on the tailgate

FYI - I walked away with all of my money - I even cashed the check at his bank before I left town - BIG SIGH of relief!

[FRENCHBLUE72]

MMMMM im pretty sure i would have hauled it back home as id have at least something... I really hope all works out well for you ...

[mclairmo]

Originally Posted by 1968SWBBigBlock

I think I would pick up the phone and call the local police in the town where the truck sits.
Explain to them the situation and ask them to speak to the owner.
Be willing to press charges if they ask.
Theft by deception over $5000.00 is a felony in many states.
I could care less how you bought it - if it was a legal transaction and the owner fragrantly misrepresented the item you have legal recourse.
It is also helpful to contact an attorney and have them write a letter seeking a refund - most folks do not want to mess with lawyers or the law!

I agree and also do not give up on PayPal, they may still be able to refund you your money if you are persistent and complain long enough and loudly enough.

[BHyatt]

Do not talk to anyone file a dispute with Paypal and they will automatically refund the money to your account. The only way the seller can get the money back is providing verification of delivery.

[vegaschevy]

your best bet and i hope you paid this way is if you paid for the transaction via credit card through paypal. if you did dispute your credit card charge with your credit card company.
Their rules are 100 times in your favor over paypals and ebays. whoever said paypal is in your favor is wrong. Ebay and paypal are the same company and they do not want any money refunded as ebay will then loose the selling fees as well.

Your credit card company will issue an instant refund and of course paypal will do the same and lean your way as they know the credit card company is in your favor and so paypal will lean your way as well

[19673ontree]

I wanted to post and say to never buy something without seeing it in person but in our hobby sometimes that just don't work out , I trade for my 67 camaro sight UNSEEN! and had it hauled from NEW YORK to VIRGINIA !
it could have been a ball of rust and I could not have done anything about it , but lucky for me that time the car was in WAY BETTER CONDITION than it was described to be , I still don't know why that guy let me have the car ?
anyway I feel that PAYPAL is your way out in your situation ,

[cparman]

I had a similar experience. I have a client that found a 1972 Blazer on EBAY, and asked if I would help him, to make sure it was as good as described. What I did was call the owner, and ask if I could drive it home from Kansas City to Jax Florida " NO PROBLEM " " RUNS GREAT " I asked him how long he had had it, and who did the rebuild etc. Called the builder and asked the same thing, and got the same answer. My client sent a 10% deposit, and put me on a plane to KC. Met with the owner, and looked at a great looking 1972 Blazer. The owner says " does not want to idle well this morning" looked around for a vacuum leak, and found none. Slid under the truck, as he says " had the oil changed yesterday " I was very happy with what I saw, and said lets go for a ride. Pulled away, and went up a small incline, AND " rattle rattle rattle " OMG what is that, main bearing rattle. Looked at the oil pressure gauge, and saw no pressure. Reached up behind the dash to make sure the gauge was connected, it was. Owner was making small talk while I drove the Blazer, asking about create motors of all things. Stepped on the brakes, and the pedal went to the floor. Went back to where we met, and told him the motor was junk, and the master cylinder was bad. " Really " Called my client, and tried to get the guy to move on the price for the cost of a new " crate engine, and shipping, and he said no, and also decided to disclose that he did not have a clear title as he had not transfered it since he bought it. I left Jax at 5:00am., and my wife picked me up 2:00am next day. After several emails, and me pointing an accusatory finger at him, and my clients lawyer sending him a note he finally gave the deposit back. my point is have it inspected, and have the understanding that you can walk away for WHAT EVER REASON before paying. If the current owner is not willing to do that KEEP LOOKING. Hate you are having this trouble, and I would go get my truck irregardless.

[big_al_71]

When I sell anything I will always tell the buyer that my vehicle is what I described and if it is not I will refund him everything including his cost to come see it. I dont lie and my word is worth Billions!!!!!!