How to start a 292 on the frame without wiring

[Jim_PA]

Don't I need 6 volts to the points? What happens if I give it 12 volts?

Where do I need to give it power, and how can I kill it?

Thanks!

[68gmsee]

Give us more specifics...

6 volt engines went out way back in the 40's or early 50's I think. I can't recall any of them in the 50's other than tractor engines.

Have you got any wirng at all?
Coil?
Do you have the external voltage regulator?
Starter wired up correctly?

It's not going to be easy unless you know how it's wired up. You have to introduce voltage to the starter and coil and then have a way to drop the voltage to the starter and maintain volgage to the coil...

Look up wiring diagrams in the faq site. Here's one I found.

[Jim_PA]

Yeah, it's complete (but some wires are cut. I was just going to power the coil off the battery, and use a screwdriver to jump the starter solenoid...

With points, isn't there a 6 volt wire coming out of the ignition harness? I seem to remember when I re-wired for aftermarket ignition, I couldn't use the brown wire, becasue it was only 6 volts...

This is just as a test to get it running for someone who might want to buy it. As long as it starts and runs, I really don't need this to be an elaborate setup.

[68gmsee]

Well, you do have a resistor wire from the ignition but for your purpose 12 volts from the battery would do for a short time. I wouldn't run it more than 30 seconds at a time.

If you follow the diagram the + wire (12v) goes to the coil, which in turn supplies thousands of volts to the distributor and on to the spark plugs. The points opening and closing create the spark. So, if you disconnect the 12 volts supply, the engine stops.

[Jim_PA]

Perfect --- Thanks!

I was just going to run a garden hose through the water pump, or can it be run for 10-20 seconds without that too?

[68gmsee]

Here's a little more info I dug up:

The next component is the ignition resistor. It is necessary because ignition coils are designed to step up battery voltage high enough - and fast enough - to keep the engine running at high rpm. That means that, as designed, the coil would produce too much high voltage at low rpm and heat up. Automakers long ago realized that there were two solutions to the problem: using two coils (one for low rpm and one for high) or an ignition resistor. Obviously, the resistor approach is the least expensive and most reliable, so that's what they did. The resistor used varies is resistance as a function of temperature, and limits the voltage to the coil accordingly. As the engine revs up the resistance lowers, allowing more voltage to the coil for fast running, and the reverse happens when the engine slows down. At idle, for instance, only about 7 volts is going through the coil primary windings.

The only time the resistor is out of the circuit is during startup, when the engine needs all the spark it can get. It's bypassed in the ignition switch's start position so that, during starting, the coil gets full battery voltage. Ignition resistors can take many forms, depending upon the manufacturer of the vehicle. Some builders mounted a big resistor on the firewall and some others utilized a special type of wire (resistance wire) running from the ignition switch to the coil. Still others used coils that were built with an internal resistor. None of these is any better an approach than the others, but it's important to know which type you have, and that you have one!

[68gmsee]

Originally Posted by Jim_PA

Perfect --- Thanks!

I was just going to run a garden hose through the water pump, or can it be run for 10-20 seconds without that too?

When cold, I've run an engine for 10, 15 seconds at the most. You can crack a head real quick without water. Run the hose through it if at all possible but never when the engine is hot. That too, can crack the heads.

[Jim_PA]

So, does anyone know if the resistor is built into the wire? If so, I can probably find that brown wire, and just run power from the battery to the coil with it.

Here's my official photo-chopped diagram... anything I'm missing? Looks like the distributor gets 1 wire from the negative side of the coil? I think that wire is still in place...

[68gmsee]

In our trucks the resistor is built into the pink wire from the bulkhead. That's why you bypass it when you go to the HEI distributor since it doesn't use points and requires a full 12 volts.

If you're only going to run it for short periods, you probably won't need the resistor wire.

[Jim_PA]

Ok, thanks, this is kind of exciting

[CPNE]

I believe the resistor wire to the coil/starter solinoid is yellow, not pink. I is part of the engine harness

[mclairmo]

My buddy ran a full 12 volts to his points all the time and it ran fine, no overheating. He just had to replace the points every month because they would get burned up so fast. You don't need a resistor to run it on the frame for a short time. You actually need very little to run it for a few seconds. No alternator needed at all, just run it off the battery until it dies, I guess. I drove a car a couple miles with a dead alternator and with the lights on at night. Not too smart and killed the battery but it worked.

[Jim_PA]

It's alive!!! Had to clean up the points a little bit to make it spark, but after that, it started making music.

The initial run was just a beer can with some gas being poured into the carb, but now I can try to rig up a gas can and cooling system. Thanks everyone.

['68OrangeSunshine]

The resistor wire is Line 20 White/Orange/Purple that runs from the bulkhead connector [upper plug group] to just around the bellhousing where it splices off to 20 Yellow to the Coil positive terminal, and 20 Yellow Starter solenoid terminal "S". It flows 12 VDC until the engine gets up to operating temperature then the heat increases the resistance in the line and it drops to about 7 VDC. If you go around or delete this line use a ceramic resistor before the coil when running points. If you upgrade to HEI then delete the resistor. Don't run HEI on a resistance line.

[Jim_PA]

Great info --

Last question, and probably a stupid one If I put the garden hose in the top hose (to the thermostat housing...) will the thermostat ever open since I'll be pushing cold water to it? Or should I just pull the thermostat out?

[68gmsee]

No, it won't open up.

You have to remove the thermostat to get the circulation you need. Water gets sucked in from the bottom of the pump and pushed out the top.

Personally, I would try to rig up a radiator. Just remember, either way you do it, do not run the engine for very long periods of time without the proper cooling.

[Jim_PA]

Originally Posted by 68gmsee

No, it won't open up.

You have to remove the thermostat to get the circulation you need. Water gets sucked in from the bottom of the pump and pushed out the top.

Personally, I would try to rig up a radiator. Just remember, either way you do it, do not run the engine for very long periods of time without the proper cooling.

maybe I can do that... the hoses were cut up at the top. There might be a way to rig it together with some good duct tape or something