1971 c-10 teardown & frame up resto

[skyreep1]

Okay theses Q's are in my build thread (El Capitan) too but I want to dedicate that more to just showing off =P

Anyways here's a few questions I need to ask before I start up


Q. If I'm going to be taking everything off anyway, what do I need to do to whats on the frame? New bushings (if so which ones?)?, New brake lines (or can I just use steel wool and paint)? Brake cables? Fuel lines (have surface rust but no holes)? HD shocks?

Q. What's the best way to clean up rusted bolts? Some of my bed bolts, fender bolts, etc are covered with rust.

Q. Paint job... I've settled on stock chevy orange engine enamel, and everything else (except certain engine parts and cab roof) should be stock (514) light red. Or at least something similar. Cab roof is white. My question is... What inexpensive and good looking paint solutions do I have? I want to be able to go back in a few years, hit it with a DEA, and have it professionally done, but for now I need something cheap and fair looking. Maybe a rustoleum style paint job? I think it was msgrossman who had his truck done in blue rustoleum with metal flake... Looked great!. Something like that would be nice but I need specifics. What paint and how would I go about doing it? two coats of primer, followed by two coats of rustoleum followed by gloss coat? Rattle can? HVLP gun? Roll on? I need lots of info on this. I have the capability to sandblast most of the parts or at least hit them with a wire wheel.

Also Is the KBS frame kit a good idea to remove rust and paint my frame? All I've heard are good things.

Q. #3 Es mui importante! (lol spanish class practice =P)

[Rack Man]

First of all you better get a 'ball park" budget together....because a frame off restoration cost $$....an I see that your only 17 with no income.....are you still in highschool?

Then afer that you need to decide what is mandatory and what is not.....It seems your trying to tackle everything at one time but you need to slow down an take it one step at a time......Start your dissambley and take tons of pictures for future reference.....you really wont know if somethings need to be replaced until you get them apart....bag & tag all hardware as you take it off...you will never remember where everything goes!

Also, learn to use the "search function" on this site...it will become your best friend.....I still use it almost daily!

I can give one quick tip on the rusted bolt question...,,buy new ones!.....its way easier!....and if you don't want to then carefully soak them in muriatic acid for 10 or 15 mins.....removes the rust like magic.....May need to apply some paint or clear coat to them right afterwards......this stuff is toxic so wear rubber gloves and eye protection...I have gone through two gallons of this stuff already on my build.......




RM

[beautimus]

first question
i used a 3m rust stripper wheel (8 bucks at walmart) to get the frame down to shiny metal. i used 2 coats of rustoleum primer, put on with a foam rubber trim roller(6 bucks at walmart or lowes). then 2 coats of gloss black rustoleum put on the same way(10 bucks a can at walmart). if you do it right it will look like it was sprayed on with a spray gun. plus you get some thickness to the paint, so it will last. but even gloss rustoleum will fade so it will be flat black eventually.
check out the front suspension. replace anything thats sloppy.
on the brake lines, i would check them out for rust pitting, pits in the metal are brake failures in progress. You should replace any of them that have deep pits.and If you can afford it, the rubber brake hoses are a good idea, they can collapse in on themselves on the inside when they deterioate.
new wheel bearings and brake shoes / pads are a good idea if your budget can handle it. also if your truck doesn't have a front sway bar, this is a good time to install one.

question 2 the advise listed above is good advise, but replace any bolts that are deteriorated. it will save you a lot of swearing down the road.

question 3. Do yourself a favor, DON"T do a rustoleium paint job on the body if you are doing a frame off resto. The rustoleium is okay if your going to drive the truck as is for a while. But its not worth it to you to do a total frame off, and squander your hard work with a 50 dollar paint job.
the guys on the board that have painted their trucks like that, just want to get by until they can do something better. its not meant to be a final paint job, on a total restoration.

thats my advice, but its only advice, what you do is up to you.
good luck and post pictures, we want to see how your truck is coming!!!

[Diablo de la Noche]

I was going to do a low budget rebuild/custom job on my 67. It looked good from far, but was far from good. I started by getting it running in my garage, and when I took it for a drive, the tranny was toast and I barely got it back in the garage. I decided that the interior was most important for now, because my budget is low, and the interior was the easiest project with regular hand tools. One thing led to another and my plans went from smooth custom, to junky stocker, to shop truck/rod. No matter which way I went, there was a lot of work and money.
That being said, before I take off a part, I photograph it in place from different angles so I can reference how it was attached and what it was attached to. After I get if off, I photograph it from all angles again.
You will have tons of parts taken off, so keep a ziplock bag with the hardware in it taped to the part.

I like the idea of using muriatic acid to clean the rust off the bolts. Your local pool supply store will have it for around $10 a gallon. It hurts if you get it on you. And it will eat through your clothes.

My philosophy: If you have it apart, clean it, and replace all the soft stuff.

You are going to get yourself in way over your head, but don't give up. Every little bit of work you do is still progress, usually.

[skyreep1]

Well thanks for the advice guys. I'm gonna put my budget at 800 dollars because that's how much my dad will put in for me. will this dream muriatic acid work on rusted body parts as well?

The interior is perfect, and I have all the body parts for repair (replacement fender, inner fender, cab corner, passenger rocker). Gettin the engine running=paid for. About 80 dollars for the distributor rebuild/carb rebuild/all filters, done. That leaves welding and bolting in replacement body parts, cleaning up the frame, and painting the truck. I have an HVLP spray gun. Can someone give me a little list of what I need paint wise. Not rustoleum. Preferably a metal flake but if it's much more expensive then no.

Also can someone elaborate more on exactly what I need to replace while I have the frame off. Rubber brake hose, shocks, anything else for the disks in the front and I think, drums on the back. Not positive right now if she has drums in rear though. Preferably I dont have to replace the brake lines=230 dollars for stainless(if Im gonna do it I want it to last so I dont do it twice). Also what bushing should I replace? The bushings for the A arms? What about all the other bushings on the suspensions? list what exactly I need to replace.

Finally, haynes vs chilton manual for frame up?

Lets say 300 for paint (includes primer, clear coat, etc) and 250 for frame (brake hoses, shocks, bushings, brakes, etc). The KBS coating kit ($55) is paid for already. Then another 100 for body surface rust repair (the bed has little rust bubbles all over the inside. Needs to be sand blasted (by me)) bed, minor bed side surface rust, rust spots on cowl/firewall, door skin rust etc. In other words 100 dollars for sand, sand paper, and bondo... and more bondo... I'll leave the other 150 for the unexpected, or one of the budgets busting.

[skyreep1]

any help? porva vor?

[LEEVON]

I don't know how your truck is mechanically, but to me there is always more satisfaction in having one that is in top mechanical condition that may still look a little weathered. Reliable transportation is something to be proud of too. You'll end up unhappy if you spend your budget making it all one color but it still needs a brake job, the trans is leaking, bad u-joints, worn out distributor, etc.

My .02....but if you're set on painting it, take care of any rust first and do a single stage driveway job. You may get by on this for $300-400.

[lowtops]

I'm going to suggest you don't use muratic acid and use phosphoric acid to clean your bolts. I have used both numerous times for different things and have some of each in the garage now.

Muratic acid is a very powerful acid and could lead to issues if you leave it on to long (hydrogen embrittlement) . Sure it will clean the rust off, but once you use it you start a chemical reaction that is hard to stop. Baking soda and water will slow down the reaction but may not stop it completely. It can make your bolts weak over time if the reaction is not neutralized.

Phosphoric acid on the other hand is a rust converter. It turns the rust into a black coating that in some cases does not have to be painted, but can be if you want to. If you leave phosphoric acid on "to long" you get iron phosphate which is a rust inhibitor. I used "Rust Mort" made by SEM (I think) on some rusty exhaust bolts. Worked great and I did not paint them. The rust has not come back after a year. Plus phosphoric acid can be reused several times before it loses effectiveness.

Do some research on the subject and then decide. If you use muratic acid use gloves, eye protection, AND a respirator. Muratic acid will take your breath away at best, burn your lungs at worst.

I realize some of you guys have used muratic acid successfully, but the safety issues along with the potential of not neutralizing the reaction completely make phosphoric acid a better choice.

Just my 2 cents

[westofb]

Good luck, $800 won't go very far on a frame off resto....have you been pricing parts? I would say to put your cash into making it dependable first, then worry about the looks. I am in process of just beginning a frame off myself and so have about $4000 invested guessing it will take at least $2500 more to finish....this is for parts alone, all labor performed by me.

[Hottrucks]

no one asked are you going to drive this everyday??or have you been driving it?? everone seems to be saying change this replace that but if your just looking to clean it up..then I would definitly go a dif route...your going to burn though $800 no matter what you do......

you may just try removing the bed and front clip cleaning up the frame hitting the frame with a can of rustolium (satin) repaint the engine while the clip is off..and yes replace things that are worn..the nice thing is then you can easily work on any rust spots you have and be ready for paint

[skyreep1]

Thanks so much for the tip on the acid. Definetly looked into.

Also I plan on just using it for a sunday driver.

Mechanically she is completely sound. She just needs distributor parts, battery, carb rebuild, plugs, plug wires, brake fluid, antifreeze, oil, filter, and some chevy orange enamel. Most of these things are just precautionary measures anyway. 66,000 miles and she runs terrific.

As far as the actual frame goes, I know what I'm doing with it. KBS coating. It removes the rust and includes paint.

I mainly just want to clean her up. Paint the frame since it's getting some surface rust, cleanup the bolts to prevent them from having to be replaced, and get rid of the body rust.

[Hottrucks]

I would go with plan B then

what shape is the body in ( pic woulld help here) maybe it woud be a good canidate for the pantina look I just read a good artical on how to stop the rust without disturbing the look...guys are mixing CLR 3 to 1 with water and washing them..it seems to give a great look?? smoothes off the rust and makes it stable and removes the oxidation from the paint...nothing I have tried yet but for what it costs it might be worth trying in a little spot???
One of the benifits of this it that you get to keep driving it which is always a good motivator......

[skyreep1]

Body is pretty much fine... taking pictures later today. Theres rust on one cab corner, and both door panels at the bottom but I already have all the replacement parts ready to be welded in.

Here's a shopping list I've created out of LMC. I believe I've included everything with the exception of paint, seals, bondo, sandpaper, and basic things like filters and fluids. The prices are each.


Engine
8x Spark Plugs 2.10
1x Plug Wires 19.95
1x Distributor point and condenser set 9.95
1x Distributor Cap 7.95
1x Distributor rotor 3.95
1x Distributor coil 19.99
1x Distributor lead 6.99

Frame
1x KBS Frame restoration kit 55.00
4x HD Gas Shocks 19.95

Lights
2x Headlight 3.95
1x Dome light lens 2.95
1x Dome light bulb .95
2x Clear reverse light .95
2x Tail light bulb .95
2x Park light bulbs .95
2x Front side marker bulbs .95
2x Rear side marker bulbs .95

Front Suspension (optional???)
2x Upper A arm bumper 4.95
4x Upper shaft seal 3.95
2x Lower A arm bumper 5.95
4x Lower shaft seal 3.95

Rear Suspension (optional???)
2x Control Arm bushing 12.95
2x Track Arm bushing 12.95
2x Rear control arm bumper 9.95

Sway Bar (optional???)
4x Sway bar bushing 6.95

Brakes
1x Pair Front Brake Hoses 49.95
1 or 2?x Rear Brake Hose 19.95
1x Rear brake shoe set 39.95
1x Disc brake pad set 19.95


Totals
Frame 55.00
Brakes 129.80
Shocks 80.40
Front Suspension 53.40
Rear Suspension 71.70
Sway Bar 11.50
Engine 85.58
Lights 16.55
Body ??.??
Paint ??.??



Tell me if I need the optional things or anything else I need... still would appreciate more specific painting suggestion.

Please critique...
Thanks Guys!!!

[skyreep1]

Okay guys... heres some long awaited pix...












Whatacha think?

[skyreep1]

well... any critiques on the list or thoughts on the pix

[mplex2000]

Looks pretty rough. I'm with the other guys, make sure your engine, brakes and suspension are tip top. That will eat up most of your money. If you can have, say, $200 leftover from the original $800, you might try doing whatever you can find to save up and add to that. If you can do the rust repair and single stage paint yourself, it shouldn't be too bad, depending on how much you have to buy in patch panels.

[skyreep1]

Already have all the patch panels

[Rack Man]

Here's my tip based on my 25 years of doing all types of different projects.........Take your money budget and your expected man hours for the project and triple both of them and you should be right on the money at completition time



RM

[msgross]

Originally Posted by skyreep1

well... any critiques on the list or thoughts on the pix

not a bad start except for the driver cab corner/rocker. New bolts from Tractor Supply will go a long way on a build.

I suggest that you do more research on the board, guys here are always willing to help but you will learn more by looking in the FAQ section and gathering the info yourself.

Now my 2 cents..

For $800 I would work on getting it running first, brakes, carb, radiator, tires, exhaust etc... Be careful taking parts off because they won't go back on once rusted bolts are stripped/removed (trust me). Find out what you MUST do and plan for the rest later when your get money and skills. Hugger orange shouldn't have metal flake, Once you get it running i'd get a $250 Macco job if you want to save money, it won't be the best but it will more than likely be better than you can do yourself.

It needs to be safe and reliable first, then make it pretty... It's doable but focus on ONE system at a time, it will snowball and before you know it you're out of money with a yard full of rusty parts.

good luck

[msgross]

I also suggest buy a $45 dollar skip white HEI from Ebay.. much better than all the cap,coil,points parts that you are looking at. You will need HEI plug wires as well. Very easy upgrade and for $75 you can have the ignition system running better than new.

Here it is..

http://stores.shop.ebay.com/whiteper...__W0QQ_armrsZ1


Also, rockauto.com has great prices on parts but you have to pay shipping, shop around your auto parts stores and get the best prices.

If the brakes are shot plan on new brake lines (www.inlinetube.com) and rebuilt calipers, drums, wheel cylinders and rotors. don't worry about the frame for now, you can do all this with the body on. You will have to pull the bed for paint and the cab corner.

[Ackattack]

When I was in HS, I got my first 67-72 truck. Over the next 10 years I slowly fixed it up, basically doing a frame on restoration. I had a lot of fun, but for the most part it was always on the road.

Finally I got into a position financially where I could do a frame off restoration. Well nearly 2 1/2 years and $25k later I still have not driven the truck.

So my suggestion is this, with only $800, don't even think of it as a restoration. $800 might get it up and running well, and over the next few years you can make some upgrades to get the truck the way you want. If you tear it apart now, you will likely never drive it again (get to a point, run out of money, it sits for years, and then you finally sell it for next to nothing).

[skyreep1]

Uea I've though about the HEI kit but I wanna keep her stock.

Okay here's a list a think is doable for 800. The suspensions fine, I was just being preventative, and the engine runs but needs the distributor stuff, plugs, and wires, and a carb rebuild. I've got a new set of tires.

Radiator has brand new hoses and works well. Exhaust is brand new straight pipes with a glass pack cherry bomb.

Like I said, she runs, just being preventative.

So the way I see it, I'll replace the brake stuff ($129.80 total) the engine stuff ($85.58 total) the shocks ($80.40 total) and the lights that need to be replaced ($16.55 total). This comes up to $312.33 plus another $55 dollars for the KBS frame resto kit. = $367.33. After that I'll take everything down to bare metal, one panel at a time and paint it with self etching primer. Then whatever cash I have left can go to either paint, suspension bushings, or whatever else I feel the urge to splurge on... good game plan?

The order Ill do it in;
1)engine
2)KBS frame resto
3)brakes
4)suspension
5)body
6)lights

[Shyguy]

Some very good advice.

It sounds like you a have a good starting point for a frame off.

Enjoy the journey of working on one of these old classics.

It may take more time and money then expected so don't get discouraged.

Some one on on here gave this advice one time and it seems to help, "How do you eat an elephant-one bite at a time". This advice can work on a lot of things including working on trucks.

I can not handle having my trucks down for long and not being able to be driven since I am an old guy. So my first priority is to make them mechanically sound and safe.

My son did a frame off not long ago just replacing the parts that needed to be and doing all the work himself including the painting and body work. He figures he has right at $9000 invested including the initial cost of the truck which was $1500. It looks great and is mechanically sound but is not a show truck by any means.

It took him about 6 months working on weekends and after work. He already had all the tools necessary to do the job including a large compressor, welder and paint equipment.

I buy as many mechanical parts locally that I can.

If you get the right person at O'Reilly's or Napa they can get a lot of suspension, engine and brake parts there for quit a bit cheaper than LMC. That way you will be able to see the parts before you buy them.

Danny

[Hottrucks]

Originally Posted by Ackattack

So my suggestion is this, with only $800, don't even think of it as a restoration. $800 might get it up and running well, and over the next few years you can make some upgrades to get the truck the way you want. If you tear it apart now, you will likely never drive it again (get to a point, run out of money, it sits for years, and then you finally sell it for next to nothing).

this is the best advise I have heard yet!! HANDS DOWN!!

first complete the truck..in other words put the cab corner on put the lights in it and Check over the brakes..they may not need to be replaced today.. you may get 6 months ot a year out of them who knows till you look....put the bumper on


second..clean out the cab and make it nice...carpet,radio what ever wax the dash repaint the door panels make it comfortable..put the door seal back on

third....I would spray the primed/spray painted spots with oven cleaner..yea oven cleaner (yellow can) this will remove the ugly paint and primer but won't hurt the paint...just spray it on use a soft brush and it will wash off....next wash the truck start in the engine compartment and finish with the tail gate...next mix CLR 3:1 with water and wash the truck again this will clean everthing and anyplace that is rusty will be sealed ( clr has phosphate in it) and will nuetrilize the rust and it won't start again.....

the point here is that now you have a clean truck that is turn key to start with and a bad ass pantina paint job...( very kool till you have $$ to paint it and you may like it)

fourth open up the engine bay and have at it get the fire wall cleaned up ( might pull the front clip for this) clean paint the engine frame and inner fenderwells put on the new wires cap points refill with anti freeze put the clip back on and run it!!!

5th pull the bed and repaint the frame
6th run it
7th run it


notice at no point is the truck apart so that you can't drive it other than the weekend your doing the engine bay save up your $$ and then decide what you want to do next..if you notice my build of your truck is CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP couple rattle cans, can of rustiolum satin black for the frame some CLR and a can of oven cleaner...I bet I woud have that truck cleaned up on the road in a week for under $200.....now drive it and listen to the truck it will tell you what it wants and needs they all do you just need to listen

[skyreep1]

wow... Thats exactly what I needed. Couple questions though... The places with the ugly spray paint and rust showing through.... thats a thin layer of bondo underneath where the original surface rust was sanded off, bondo'd and primed. do the suggestions change?

And second, in order to fully paint the frame, wouldnt I have to do a teardown? cab off, bed off, fenders off etc?