Old debate 700r4 200r4 new opinions?

[mikey531]

I am currently running a mild 350 w/turbo 350 with 4:10 gears. I need to do something for better gas mileage and highway driving. Part of me wants a cruiser with 3.08 and smooth running with decent acceleration not a racer. My old life as a drag racer wants to be able chirp the tires into second gear with part throttle, and well it happened the other day I left a stop and it started spinning and I didn't have brains enough to let off.. I figure being almost 60 no cop would believe it was me doing that anyway ! I am considering the 200r4 with the 4:10 and maybe having my cake and eating it too

Now I still don't know what to do .. I had a early 700r4 given to me.. I was told by a reputable transmission shop that they could rebuild and install including shortening the driveshaft, shift kit and torque converter and TV cable for less than $1000. I also just found a 200r4 for $150. I checked the RPM I do want to keep the 4.10's. The 700R4 will give me 2322 at 65 and the 200R4 will give me 2222 which is within my rpm range I just can't decide which transmission !

Which way do I go ?

[SactoJim]

Both great tranny's when built right.......200 has a better 1st-2nd gear ratio. 700 drops quite a few RPM when shifting from 1st-2nd. You'll find most rebuilders are most comfortable with the 700 cuz there's just more out there......may be a little less expensive to build the 700. What was the 200 you have originally behind?.....hopefully a V8 or a Grand National (that would be crazy luck)!

Anyway.......tons of info on the web regarding these tranny's....hours of reading! Plenty of performance shops you can order parts and complete trans from as well.....first that comes to mind is Bowtie Overdrives.

[mikey531]

That is part of my problem, I have been reading and I am getting more confused. I am not sure what the 200r4 was in.

[Arad68]

There is a plate rivited to the side of the trans. It will have a series of letters on it. These will id your trans and what it came in.

http://www.442.com/oldsfaq/oftrn.htm#TRAN Auto Transmission Identification

TH-200-4R
The tail shaft is not removable - it is part of the trans housing casting.

Pan Shape
The TH-200-4R has an unusually shaped pan that almost looks like 2 parts. But the pan looks very different than the TH-350. It has a main pan and what looks like a small secondary pan at the rear. All TH-2004Rs have the word "M E T R I C" stamped on the bottom.

TH-200-R4 ID's:
ID Year(s) Application
KZF ** Olds 442/Hurst
CZF ** Monte SS
BRF ** GN/T-Type/Turbo Regals
OZ ** Hurst Olds
OM Olds 350 Diesels
OG Olds 307
BY V-6 252 Cars
AA and AP Cadillac's

Transmissions marked "**" have a special (better for performance) valve body, plate, 1-2 servo, 3-4 servo, 2-3 intermediate servo, and governor.
These codes can be found on the passenger side of the transmission near the output shaft. Sometimes they are hard to read due to the catalytic convertor getting in the way.

The valve body itself will have the first two letters painted on it. Be careful because the paint comes off easily. The special valve bodies usually have a purple strip on them

I personally like 2004Rs better. I pounded on one for many miles with a Pontiac 455 and it's still hanging in there.

[spatz]

If you want to get some good info on the 700R4, See custom classic truck's November 2005 volume 12 number 11. Has an article on the 700R4 build from B & M, and if its a earlier than a 1987, they have a kit that will update to the stronger 1987 and later models. You can call them (B & M) at 818 882 6422 for tech info on the kit for rebuilding.

[toddtheodd]

I would rather go with the 200 myself since it's the same length and line hook up as the th350. Just move the crossmember and you're good to go. (well... tv stuff too)

[Richard8971]

I have been running a newer 700 in my truck (early 4L60) and I love it. They are both good transmissions so I guess you will just have to decide what you want to go with. I do think however that there are more guys out there who can work on the 700's, but I could be wrong.

D

[Longhorn Man]

honestly, I would fear a shop willing to build a tranny, and convert your truck, and set up the TV cable (PROPERLY) for $1000 bucks.

[highperf4x4]

Make sure it's a 200-R4 and not a THM200 as they were prone to failure behind V8's. According to wikipedia anyway!

Check this out though, it's a quote from wikipedia.
" It is believed that an HD version of the 200-4R was used in the late 80s Caprice 9C1 police package using the internals from the Buick Grand National."

In fact, here's the article, you can read up some before you decide.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbo-Hydramatic

[chevy_mike]

I have had a 700R4 in my last '68 with 4.11 gears. Honestly, unless I was trying to tow a house, first gear sucked. It, combined with the 4.11's, made it way too tall. I could light the tires up without any effort or trying. Gets tiring when you just want to briskly accellerate and not smoke the tires from a light.

Now my '98 (4L60E but same ratios as a 700) has 3.08 gears and first is fine. With that rear end though, I rarely use OD any place other than the freeway.

If I was looking to put another tranny into my current '68, it would be a 200R4 hands down. Because the ratios are about the same as a TH350/400, your 1-3 gears will be exactly like you have now. The benefit is now you have OD. The OD with 4.11's is a great help at keeping mileage up and engine wear down, by spinning less RPM's. The 200 really doesn't change the feel compared to what you have now outside of the extra gear.

As for strength, out of the box, both have their flaws and problems. The GN version of the 200 is most likely the strongest of that series and the last couple years of the 700 are the best of those. In any case, a good tranny shop that deals with either one, can build them very strong to hold up to 400 HP without going major $$$. The key is finding the right shop.

Again, my vote is for the 200R4 and start researching Grand National forums/sites to find who out there is building the best 200's.

Hope that helps.

[mrh33916]

I am currently helping a friend put a 2004R behind a 3.8. We have learned that the speedo gears are getting hard to find and are expensive. We needed the drive gear, driven gear and housing. Bowtie Overdrives did have what we needed but it cost us 80 bucks(gears not available from the dealer and the housing only fits 2004R's).
Low performance 2004R's(any other than the hard to find"**") will need the speedo gears changed to work with the gear ratio's we all like to run.
I think this is a good transmission to run but it is much easier to find the parts you need and a experienced builder for a 700R4.
Just my 2 cents,

[steelhorse]

I would go with the 200.The 700 would have too low a first gear with the 4:10s you have.Slao I believe the 200 will bolt in place of you th350 and not need to change your driveshaft.

[oldcarfart]

I use the 200's, they fit tight tunnels and I get mine from Monster Transmission www.eatmyshift.com

[mikey531]

which one is the easiest to hook up to the speedometer? Or what is needed ? I would like to get it as close as possible.

[pritch]

I've been leaning more and more towards the 200 for my Panel build. Pros and cons for both, I guess, but I don't think I need or want that really low 1st gear.

[Longhorn Man]

hey guys... its a 200 4R, not 200 R4

[monte0185]

Originally Posted by Longhorn Man

honestly, I would fear a shop willing to build a tranny, and convert your truck, and set up the TV cable (PROPERLY) for $1000 bucks.

Im not much into the building of transmissions but I know my guy here in memphis who has been building transmissions for 30+ years for everyday and racing will build a 700r4 for 800-1500 depending on how wild you want to go with it and just how indestructible you want it to be. He builds every one of my transmissions and I have yet to have one fail on me. basically what im trying to say is 1000$ buck isnt out of reach depending on the part of the country your in.

[Myself]

I agree with the above. I just rebuilt a 4L60E for a guys younger brother. I ordered a HD rebuild kit with Alto red clutches, and new 3-4 gear 9 clutch pack (vs the oem 5), all seals and bushings, new HD sun shell, Transgo shift kit, all new valve body solenoids, and new torque converter. The parts total was $520. Labor paid to me was $400. He brought me the trans, R&R would have run another $250. You just need to make sure they TOTALLY rebuild it. Most shops will only replace clutches, rubbers, and main bushings. For a low horsepower stocker that's probably fine. I won't do it! It's a total overhaul or nothing. DO NOT put a 700R4/4L60E together without a new HD sun shell.

[Longhorn Man]

very good points. I guess when I hear the word shop I think of where I work, while it is a smaller shop, it is still quite expensive to keep the doors open (fine69 has seen it, it's a fairly impressive place for a small buisness)
I do know some people will build trannys out of there garage and do it cheap, my tranny guy will do TH350/400 all day long for 250 carry out, and a stock 700R4/2004R for 350.
Its the remove and install and convert part that makes the price seem way too low.

[cparman]

Longhorn is right. The several 3 spd to 4 spd's that I have done are not so much about the trans rebuild, as they are about the other STUFF. TV cable, modifying the throttle brackets, and having a way to connect the tv cable. Being creative how you turn on and off the torque converter lock up. I just takes a lot of time to make it right. I would recommend a 200/700 r swap to anyone. Just makes our stuff drive better at 50 MPH or so. just time consuming, and a $1000 will not get the job done

[mikey531]

So how much should I expect to pay?
The 200r4 and 700r4 are about 50/50 so I still don't know which way to go. What about stock speedometer and cable hookup?

I was just looking at monster transmissions and they sell a 700r4 for $845 with free shipping. I guess I should have used a different word than "shop" as they have been around for over 15 years and did a friends 32 Ford coupe. I have a couple other places I can check and see what they charge.
Thanks

[mikey531]

I am picking up a 200R4 tomorrow. So I will have a 700R4 and a 200R4. Both will need rebuilding. I still don't know which one I am going to put in. All the pro and con posts run about 50/50. Which one will be the easiest/cheapest to work with my speedometer?

[highperf4x4]

the 200-4r

[mikey531]

I was going to pick up the 200R4 this week, but he sent me the tag and now I can't find anything that verifies it is a 200R4. I don't want to travel 130 miles and find out it isn't what I want. I have asked for more pictures but I guess he thinks I am not serious.
Thanks

[Arad68]

I would say that additional pictures are in order. Try get one of the pan, It will tell you for sure if it is a TH2004r.
Here is an additional link about the identification and what they were in.

TKM doesn't match anything that I can tell, unless the letters are stamped out of order.

http://www.hemmings.com/mus/stories/..._feature9.html