Gen III/4L60E in an AD?

[muddpile]

I've got myself an AD truck, but I haven't got er home yet, so I figured before I get it into the shop I'd have an idea of what direction I'm going. It's a 5 window GMC shortbox 1/2 ton. My plan is to make a decent driver out of it, up to and including a modern drivetrain.

I'm aiming for a 4.8/5.3/6.0, keep the EFI and use a swap harness, put a MII up front and a 4 link out back with a more modern rearend. I've got the plan, now I just need to execute it.

-All engines are based off the same platform, but is there anything more desireable? Cable throttle body is more my thing vs. Throttle By Wire, but past that?

-Transmissions? 2wd but again, is there anything that varied on these?

-Driveshaft? Is there one off a stock something that can work, or am I better off getting something built?

-Differential? I've seen Camaro diffs used LOTS. What gear ratio and tire height has been proven to work well with these LS based truck engines?

-Which oilpan and exhaust manifolds seem to clear everything with ease, and do most just use a standard "Street Rod" style universal mount? Same goes for tranny mount.

-I know the ECM has to mate itself to the crank sensor, but which ECM is reccommended?

That should be all for now. I could just go the SBC/TH350 route, but with this one, I want something different, and I know I've seen it done before.

Thanks!

[MrTucker]

check out Kid's GMC Ad build...'nough said

[blackdiesel]

alright, let me see what i can do here, i just picked up my 5.3/4l60e today going in my '57

i went with the 5.3 because its half the cost of the 6.0, a LOT easier to find, and only around 25 less hp. if your going for big numbers, the 6.0 has more cubes and a 4 inch bore which allows it to use the l92 heads, which can become very powerful. however, a stock 300 hp is good enough for me so i stuck with the 5.3

the 5.3 comes with the 4l60e, the 6.0 comes with the 4l80e. i would deff stick with the electronic controlled tranny, i like them much better than the 700r4's. they dont rob near the hp.

at the bare minimum get the yoke that comes out of the tranny output shaft and the yoke that bolts to your rear end. and if possible one of the entire drive shafts. but best case sinero, both driveshafts.

i love the 8.8 out of the ford explorers. your track width may need to be narrower, so you might see if the ones out of a ranger would work for you. they have factory sway bars, disk brakes, park brakes, and a limited slip diff. they work great for me, ive put several in.

im not sure on the oil pan, ive heard the ones on the 6.0 will not fit car applications. havnt looked at a 6.0 oil pan so i dont know whats up there. however the one on my 5.3 looks real close to a sbc oil pan (as close as an alumnium pan with sensors can get) so i dont think i will need to do any modification there. i am also going to stick with the stock exhaust manifolds, or pick a set of stockers up off a late model vette. they look pretty good for being from the factory.

get the computer that was originally with your motor you find

hope this helps

[50adrod]

Originally Posted by blackdiesel

alright, let me see what i can do here, i just picked up my 5.3/4l60e today going in my '57

i went with the 5.3 because its half the cost of the 6.0, a LOT easier to find, and only around 25 less hp. if your going for big numbers, the 6.0 has more cubes and a 4 inch bore which allows it to use the l92 heads, which can become very powerful. however, a stock 300 hp is good enough for me so i stuck with the 5.3

the 5.3 comes with the 4l60e, the 6.0 comes with the 4l80e. i would deff stick with the electronic controlled tranny, i like them much better than the 700r4's. they dont rob near the hp.

at the bare minimum get the yoke that comes out of the tranny output shaft and the yoke that bolts to your rear end. and if possible one of the entire drive shafts. but best case sinero, both driveshafts.

i love the 8.8 out of the ford explorers. your track width may need to be narrower, so you might see if the ones out of a ranger would work for you. they have factory sway bars, disk brakes, park brakes, and a limited slip diff. they work great for me, ive put several in.

im not sure on the oil pan, ive heard the ones on the 6.0 will not fit car applications. havnt looked at a 6.0 oil pan so i dont know whats up there. however the one on my 5.3 looks real close to a sbc oil pan (as close as an alumnium pan with sensors can get) so i dont think i will need to do any modification there. i am also going to stick with the stock exhaust manifolds, or pick a set of stockers up off a late model vette. they look pretty good for being from the factory.

get the computer that was originally with your motor you find

hope this helps

I agree with the explorer rear axle, hard to beat. stock manifolds did not clear the frame on my build, I used hooker block huggers. the oil pan with my M II setup works just fine.get the factory harness and PCM, you can get the harness reworked and PCM reprogramed for around $300. check my build thread for pictures. you will love the driveability of the LS based motors

[50adrod]

Originally Posted by MrTucker

check out Kid's GMC Ad build...'nough said

tried searching for that user and had no luck. got a link?

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted by blackdiesel

alright, let me see what i can do here, i just picked up my 5.3/4l60e today going in my '57

i went with the 5.3 because its half the cost of the 6.0, a LOT easier to find, and only around 25 less hp. if your going for big numbers, the 6.0 has more cubes and a 4 inch bore which allows it to use the l92 heads, which can become very powerful. however, a stock 300 hp is good enough for me so i stuck with the 5.3

the 5.3 comes with the 4l60e, the 6.0 comes with the 4l80e. i would deff stick with the electronic controlled tranny, i like them much better than the 700r4's. they dont rob near the hp.

at the bare minimum get the yoke that comes out of the tranny output shaft and the yoke that bolts to your rear end. and if possible one of the entire drive shafts. but best case sinero, both driveshafts.

i love the 8.8 out of the ford explorers. your track width may need to be narrower, so you might see if the ones out of a ranger would work for you. they have factory sway bars, disk brakes, park brakes, and a limited slip diff. they work great for me, ive put several in.

im not sure on the oil pan, ive heard the ones on the 6.0 will not fit car applications. havnt looked at a 6.0 oil pan so i dont know whats up there. however the one on my 5.3 looks real close to a sbc oil pan (as close as an alumnium pan with sensors can get) so i dont think i will need to do any modification there. i am also going to stick with the stock exhaust manifolds, or pick a set of stockers up off a late model vette. they look pretty good for being from the factory.

get the computer that was originally with your motor you find

hope this helps

Only 2500HD and up got a 4L80E. 1500HD, Hummer H2 ,Silverado SS, all have 6.0s but no heavy duty trans


All truck 4.8/5.3/6.0 oil pans are the same, really deep

700R4s do not rob more power than 4L60E.A 4L60E is just a electronic version of 700R4. TH400 VS 4L80E is the same concept exept the overdrive and lock-up conveter.

[blackdiesel]

Originally Posted by clinebarger

Only 2500HD and up got a 4L80E. 1500HD, Hummer H2 ,Silverado SS, all have 6.0s but no heavy duty trans


All truck 4.8/5.3/6.0 oil pans are the same, really deep

700R4s do not rob more power than 4L60E.A 4L60E is just a electronic version of 700R4. TH400 VS 4L80E is the same concept exept the overdrive and lock-up conveter.

the hd models getting the 4l80 makes sense. i stand corrected

i guess ive gotten 4 bad rebuilt 700's, because they make the vehicles they are in a slug vs my 4l60e that is in my '38, it runs like a champ. maybe the 5th 700 will be the trick??

[blackdiesel]

Originally Posted by 50adrod

you will love the driveability of the LS based motors

couldnt agree more. fuel injection is the only way to go IMO

[OKGMC4]

Don't forget the fact that the 4L60E is lighter than a 4L80E and smaller as well so it's easier to package. Also, the 4L80 has a very mild 1st gear ratio like a TH400 and less overdrive than the 4L60. If you want tons of power get the 6.0 and mod it (LS6 cam in one is 500hp roughly) and the 4L80 will take it - but at the expense of more cost, more modification to fit it, and a heavier weight to carry. I like the 5.3 better for street as well.

[50adrod]

Originally Posted by OKGMC4

Don't forget the fact that the 4L60E is lighter than a 4L80E and smaller as well so it's easier to package. Also, the 4L80 has a very mild 1st gear ratio like a TH400 and less overdrive than the 4L60. If you want tons of power get the 6.0 and mod it (LS6 cam in one is 500hp roughly) and the 4L80 will take it - but at the expense of more cost, more modification to fit it, and a heavier weight to carry. I like the 5.3 better for street as well.

500hp with just a cam swap??

[ratrodmiller]

gen 3 is the only way to go if you ask me . Iv built a 1950 AD got a 2001 5.3 fuel inj 4l60 and it runs great . awesome motor easy to get parts and cheap hp.

[blackdiesel]

Originally Posted by 50adrod

500hp with just a cam swap??

ive seen a 97 hp gain on hard dynojet numbers from just a cam swap. which is almost 400 hp. thats a pretty radical cam though, kind of ruins the drivability. however 50 to 60 with a decent cam is very possible. the stock heads on these are excellent. if you want to a port and polish job that would be good for some extra hp. however a cam and head swap will be good for 500 hp easily.

i wouldnt hesitate to put a cam in my 5.3... but i dont think the 4l60e will hold it for the relibility that i am looking for.

[Kid]

Originally Posted by MrTucker

check out Kid's GMC Ad build...'nough said

thanks MrTucker!
Gotta agree with blackdiesel & others responding, you cant go wrong with a LS based motor. The 5.3 P/U motor is the most cost effective "street" motor for initial cost & gets better mileage. Watch the oil pan sump, the truck pans are approx. 2.5" deeper, but they hold 6 qts. F body pan holds 5 qts, If the truck pan works for you , great, if not, just swap it & the pickup tube for a F body pan. If the stock truck exhaust manafolds are too wide for your set up, try 1998- 2000 LS camaro manafolds, they tuck in closer to the block. Your other choice is after market headers, but much more costly. And lastly, if you want cruise control, go with the "drive by wire", much cleaner & easier to hook up.

[blackdiesel]

Originally Posted by Kid

And lastly, if you want cruise control, go with the "drive by wire", much cleaner & easier to hook up.

excellent manifold information. i have an 05, which is the drive by wire. i am excited about the cruise control. i may just have to hook mine up

[ratrodmiller]

ya, I had to change out my truck pan to the ls1 pan this week. I was scraping the road with that truck pan the ls1 oil pan worked out great.

[muddpile]

Thanks for the information thus far guys! Looks like I've got an excellent start. To make sure I've got all this right:
-5.3 is nice, streetable, affordable and readily available, a good middle ground.
-4L60E is a great tranny.
-Ford 8.8 is a nice rear to go with, but what ratio is a realistic #?
-Camaro manifolds and oil pan will help with clearance.

Now, is it a good idea to get the engine/wiring/ECM/gas pedal from the same truck, and the tranny from a different truck? The reason I ask is 99% of 5.3 trucks around here were 4x4's, and 99% of 2wd trucks were 4.8's, so a 5.3 w/ 2wd tranny would be a tough find.

And also, how much more work/wiring/money is it to go with the drive by wire? Cruise isn't necessary, but would be nice. And how does a guy go about setting it (buttons, switches, etc?)

Thanks thus far, this is GREAT!

[blackdiesel]

Originally Posted by muddpile

Thanks for the information thus far guys! Looks like I've got an excellent start. To make sure I've got all this right:
-5.3 is nice, streetable, affordable and readily available, a good middle ground.
-4L60E is a great tranny.
-Ford 8.8 is a nice rear to go with, but what ratio is a realistic #?
-Camaro manifolds and oil pan will help with clearance.

Now, is it a good idea to get the engine/wiring/ECM/gas pedal from the same truck, and the tranny from a different truck? The reason I ask is 99% of 5.3 trucks around here were 4x4's, and 99% of 2wd trucks were 4.8's, so a 5.3 w/ 2wd tranny would be a tough find.

And also, how much more work/wiring/money is it to go with the drive by wire? Cruise isn't necessary, but would be nice. And how does a guy go about setting it (buttons, switches, etc?)

Thanks thus far, this is GREAT!

correct. make sure to get the wiring, computer and fuel pedal with the sender from the same truck. i reckon you can switch the trannys, just make sure the computer and wiring harness you wish to use has the ability to controll a tranny

not sure on the cost difference. the actual motor and tranny,from my junk yard, did not vary from dbw to dbc. if you wish to buy a harness to controll it vs making the stocker work, the price will vary between the two. however i think the dbw will be easier to hook up. beats cutting another hole in your firewall and having to purchase a throttle cable...

we like to run 3.73's with our overdrive trannys. gives you an excellent off the line launch and can smoke the tires, but gives a low enough crusing rpm for good fuel milage. a local car builder would rather have 3.55's, but hes old and dont like to burn the tires off of it every once in a while

[OKGMC4]

Originally Posted by 50adrod

500hp with just a cam swap??

That only applies to the 6.0. If you research it the 6.0 and 6.0 HO are about 40hp apart with the cam being the only difference. That's up to 345hp stock. The ZO6 cam is a stock factory cam and shouldn't give poor driveability, and it puts you at 495 hp - in the 6.0. Of course you have to use the ZO6 rockers and springs as well. The 6.0 heads use the same port design as the ZO6 with a much larger combustion chamber, hence the low low compression. The head ports, valve size, bore, everything is different in the 5.3. It's like comparing a 305 to a 350. They look the same but the rules change a bit. I have seen a 5.3 in an SSR gain 100hp with a HOT cam, headers, and an aggressive tune but it was at the edge of driveability and not too practical.

[OKGMC4]

Originally Posted by muddpile

Now, is it a good idea to get the engine/wiring/ECM/gas pedal from the same truck, and the tranny from a different truck? The reason I ask is 99% of 5.3 trucks around here were 4x4's, and 99% of 2wd trucks were 4.8's, so a 5.3 w/ 2wd tranny would be a tough find.

Maybe you could get a better price on the 4.8? Use it as a bargaining chip "I really wanted the 5.3 but all you have is this smaller engine and that should make it cheaper, right?" Once it's in the difference in hp is small and you'd be the only one that knows because they look the same. Also, check out the LS Corvette manifolds. They are made just like block hugger headers. I can post pics of mine if you want to see the fit. And odds are very good you'll need that camaro oil pan if you are lowering the truck at all.

[blackdiesel]

Originally Posted by OKGMC4

That only applies to the 6.0. If you research it the 6.0 and 6.0 HO are about 40hp apart with the cam being the only difference. That's up to 345hp stock. The ZO6 cam is a stock factory cam and shouldn't give poor driveability, and it puts you at 495 hp - in the 6.0. Of course you have to use the ZO6 rockers and springs as well. The 6.0 heads use the same port design as the ZO6 with a much larger combustion chamber, hence the low low compression. The head ports, valve size, bore, everything is different in the 5.3. It's like comparing a 305 to a 350. They look the same but the rules change a bit. I have seen a 5.3 in an SSR gain 100hp with a HOT cam, headers, and an aggressive tune but it was at the edge of driveability and not too practical.

that would be a very hot motor! 500 hp is crazy if you could get it to hook i have trouble hooking my stock lt1 in my 38

also, your vette manifolds look real nice. i might try to find me a set

[OKGMC4]

Originally Posted by blackdiesel

that would be a very hot motor! 500 hp is crazy if you could get it to hook i have trouble hooking my stock lt1 in my 38

also, your vette manifolds look real nice. i might try to find me a set

I should also mention that was 500hp on a dyno - probably more like 450 rear wheel. Still good numbers. The newer engines are just better. My father in law has a stock LS1 in his 62 Vette and a stock LT1 in his 37 Ford - traction is worthless in both cars and they are both MUCH faster than when they had old school 350 engines in them.

[MrTucker]

so do you have to get a 2wd tranny or are they the same for a genIII?

[mg98ta]

I love the LS based motors. They have great driveability, power, and get good mileage. A cam swap and tune can get you 420-460 rwhp. The more cam and power get less driveablilty though. The 4L60E is a good tranny with a few upgrades. I've got a 53 Chevy that will be getting a 6.0. I've also got a 98 Trans Am that I plan on putting a 6.0 in also. Good luck with your build.

[ChuckDriver]

A lot of info can be found over at this site:


http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/index.php

Look in the Conversion&Hybrids section!

I'm starting my search for a 5.3!!

[63 & 64 Bowties]

check this out (from the "welcome" area)
http://www.67-72chevytrucks.com/vboa...d.php?t=368482