Cummins in a c10????

[americanmusc1e]

Has anyone ever put a 6cyl 12v cummins in a 1/2 ton pickup????? I'm not so much concerned with the engine fitment(I know it will fit), but it weighs 1100 pounds and a big block weighs about 700. will the frame have to beefed up??? how much will it drop the front-end?????

If I did it I'd reduce weight in the front end as much as possible: fiberglass fenders and hood, move the batteries to the bed, put the fuel tank behind the rear wheels etc......

I'm not really interested in the 4cyl cummins (4bt), I want this to be faster than my 383, and I'm planning on modding the 6cyl. from what I've found, the 4bt can't take much more than 200hp, the 6bt on the other hand..........

thanks for the input!!

[69GMCLonghorn]

Obviously if you're up for a project like this, you're not opposed to doing some fab work, etc, which I applaud since I'm not at that point yet... I will start by saying I think it is a great project, but keep in mind, there's a reason they don't shove diesels in 1/2 tons; most of them can't handle the torque. But I'll bet you can make it happen. Here are my suggestions on what you'll have to beef up:

What I would do is get the engine/trans and set it in the front end and get the weight on the frame. See how much it drops. Have a set of springs made for the front end that will support it. A good spring shop should be able to calculate what is needed.

Because of the extra weight, you'll want all your front suspension/steering components in the best shape possible. Maybe upgrade to urethane bushings, heavier duty ball joints would be a must, new idler/pitman arms wouldn't hurt either, and the biggest freakin' sway bar that money can buy!!

Check your wheel bearings and make sure they are good, too. Everything will be working harder to move/support/turn/stop that weight, so whatever you can strengthen, do it!

My guess is the frame will hold the weight as long as your engine mounts are good. The more power you generate, the more things will need to be stiffened. But you can play it by ear and see how it is after you get it running. If it flexes too much, look into adding some X members or whatever.

as I stated, all the more power to ya, but I'd personally do this project with a 3/4 or 1 ton, just for the added strength...

[LOW DOUGH]

This one is in a 4x4 burb. The Story Of A Suburban (Lots Of Pics)

[1lowdiesel]

the 6bt weighs about 850lbs.

personally i would box the frame from front to back as you are putting a torque monster engine into a 30yr old frame that wasn't designed to take it.

the 4BT can get plenty of power, much more than the 200 you've stated. it just takes alot more money and time.

i would say your coils would be fine but i would upgrade to some stiffer shocks if not coil overs.

also you will want to set the engine back as far as possible to distribute the weight.

[Jim_PA]

The 1/2 and 3/4 ton frames are the same, so I think the stock frame is plenty beefy IMO, of course

[Tx Firefighter]

The 6bt does indeed weight 1100 pounds.

[b.eddy's72]

Well they are stuffin them is 1/2 ton sb Dodges so id bet you could get it done pretty easy. Big block springs and I agree with boxin the frame. You might even consider a mid mount plate for extra support. good luck

[brothers69c-10]

Might talk to dieselwrencher. He's getting ready to put one in his longhorn i think. I know he has also done several other cummins conversions.

[CCCC]

Nice project - have fun - good wishes. BUT - there may be some discrepancies above. There is a definite difference in the height/size of the 1/2 ton vs. 3/4 ton frames out back here, and even more size/heft in the 1 tons. I may be mistaken, but don't think I have seen a factory installed Cummins 24 valve in a Dodge 1/2 ton truck. Seems like they are in 2500s and 3500s. And, how much does my Cummins 24 valve six actually weigh? 850 lbs or 1100 lbs.? I would guess at the latter - will look in the manual.

I certainly agree with those above who advise using a 3/4 ton or 1 ton frame/suspension for this project - actually have considered such a deal and personally would use the 1 ton. Even though they may look a lot alike with the same cab sitting on there, here is a BIG difference in the size/strength of the frame/suspension/steering components in the 1 ton. Much better truck, IMO. CCCC

[POPO1984]

I saw a c10 with a diesel rolling around where i live but i couldnt catch up to the guy to flag him down. i dont know what it was but the hood was cut for it to fit and it wasnt to loud but you could tell it had a diesel in it

[Jim_PA]

Originally Posted by CCCC

Nice project - have fun - good wishes. BUT - there may be some discrepancies above. There is a definite difference in the height/size of the 1/2 ton vs. 3/4 ton frames out back here, and even more size/heft in the 1 tons. I may be mistaken, but don't think I have seen a factory installed Cummins 24 valve in a Dodge 1/2 ton truck. Seems like they are in 2500s and 3500s. And, how much does my Cummins 24 valve six actually weigh? 850 lbs or 1100 lbs.? I would guess at the latter - will look in the manual.

I certainly agree with those above who advise using a 3/4 ton or 1 ton frame/suspension for this project - actually have considered such a deal and personally would use the 1 ton. Even though they may look a lot alike with the same cab sitting on there, here is a BIG difference in the size/strength of the frame/suspension/steering components in the 1 ton. Much better truck, IMO. CCCC

Yeah, in a dodge they are bigger frames, but in our 67-72's, the 1/2 and 3/4 ton are the same.

[0331grunt]

You might check this out.. I'm on the Diesel Bombers(http://www.dieselbombers.com/) forum, too and this guy did one in a 72. Worth a look...

http://www.dieselbombers.com/show-te...-12-valve.html

[b.eddy's72]

Don’t mean to be the newbie that contradicts anybody but go to this site and this is only one of hundreds of the 1/2 tons out there with Cummins. Dr. Performance Diesel here in Weatherford has a Dakota (yes it is a tube frame) that has about an 800 hp Cummins. I know another guy that has a stock framed Dakota with a 450hp Cummins. http://www.dieselpowermag.com/featur...ram/index.html

It all depends on several different factors. How much money you have to spend, how much HP your trying to get, how good you are with a welder and torch, and how much the frame of the truck is worth to you if you can’t get it done.

For the average truck guy who just wants to do something different and won’t be doggin on it all the time it would be a fairly easy build. For a dude like me that would have to take it to the track and blow the doors off of Mustangs it would take alot more effort.

I am planning a 12v Cummins swap into my sons 83 4x4 Suburban. It has the old 6.2 in it now but when it goes the 12v will be in its place. The checking I have done on it was pretty straight forward.

[americanmusc1e]

Originally Posted by 1lowdiesel

the 6bt weighs about 850lbs.

personally i would box the frame from front to back as you are putting a torque monster engine into a 30yr old frame that wasn't designed to take it.

the 4BT can get plenty of power, much more than the 200 you've stated. it just takes alot more money and time.

i would say your coils would be fine but i would upgrade to some stiffer shocks if not coil overs.

also you will want to set the engine back as far as possible to distribute the weight.

I've done a little research and not many 4bt's peg more then 200hp. http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?t=757


Can anyone tell me for sure, Are the C10 and C20 frames different????

What I'm trying to do is keep my truck as a daily-driver while still getting 20+ mpg and still being fast!!!!

[Jim_PA]

Originally Posted by americanmusc1e

Can anyone tell me for sure, Are the C10 and C20 frames different????

They are the same. C20 trailing arms are re-inforced.

[1lowdiesel]

i've seen a few 4bts pull upwards of 350-450hp and even a few that are up around 7-800.

correction, the 6bt weighs 1020lbs.

here is one for starters

YouTube- 700hp turbo diesel buggy mud bog

[CCCC]

Originally Posted by Jim_PA

Yeah, in a dodge they are bigger frames, but in our 67-72's, the 1/2 and 3/4 ton are the same.

I find tons of great knowledge on this board, and assume that Jim PA knows a lot of things about these trucks that I do not know. I do not own a C10 (1/2 ton) and probably never will, so I cannot go out to the garage and measure one. However, I do own some 72 Blazers and - am assuming - that the Blazer frame is the same size as the 1/2 ton frame. Maybe not the case?

If it is true that the Blazer frame is the same size as the C10 (1/2 ton), my tape measure just told me the following about frame height - (did not measure other aspects as it is cold out there today)

Height of Blazer frame at location of trans cross member is just about 6 inches.

Height of C20 (3/4 ton) frame at same location is about 8 inches.

If the assumption about Blazer/C10 sameness is any good, that would mean that a C20 frame is about 33% taller than the C10 frame at one critical point.

CCCC

[Jim_PA]

C10 lwb/swb, C20, suburban frames are all similar, just different lengths.

i don't know about blazer frames, I think they are different everywhere.

[jpert]

You need to concider that you are about to double the static weight in components designed for half that weight. I would be sure to look at the weight capacity of the the stock wheel bearings, spindles. shock and spring mounts. every time you drive over a dip or hit a bump the load on these compoments is multipied exponentially. 1000 lbs quickly becomes 4000 lbs and you need to design for worst case. show us some pictures of that torque lighting up the asphalt!!!! Tires and wheels too

[Tx Firefighter]

The 3/4 ton has some added braces that 1/2 ton frames don't have.

[cerjio]

Did you see the show Pimp my ride where the put a Gale Banks Duramax Diesel in a 65 impala, that car could turn a 10.5 quarter mile I dont remember the speed thru the lights but it also got 25 miles per gallon,Thats what Id put in my 70 If i could afford to !!!

[americanmusc1e]

Originally Posted by cerjio

Did you see the show Pimp my ride where the put a Gale Banks Duramax Diesel in a 65 impala, that car could turn a 10.5 quarter mile I dont remember the speed thru the lights but it also got 25 miles per gallon,Thats what Id put in my 70 If i could afford to !!!

ya, I'd choose the duramax over the cummins, except it requires a HUGE amount of wiring. you pretty much have to swap all of the wiring over from the donor truck

the duramax is 300 pounds lighter though!!!

[Tx Firefighter]

asdf

[Dieselwrencher]

Wow, this is almost a heated discussion here. The 5.9 is less than 1000lbs with no fluids. With fluids they are around 1050. How do I know? I have weighed a few............. The suspension on my corvette has been fine so I would say your front suspension with big block components will be fine. Look at it this way. What does a cast headed BBC with a 871 and dual quads weigh? It has to be close to 950lbs. How many people worry about the weight with that set up. Hardly no one. So basically you are 100lbs heavier than the Blown BBC. I would reinforce the frame where you can whether that be boxing or adding supports, or sleeving it to minimize chassis flex. I have drag raced mine all summer, driven it on the street, and the front suspension has not shown any strain or anything. It has BBC sorings in it and everything else is stock replacement parts from Moog. As for the 4bt, you can get big power from them, don't be fooled. You will need a 4bt with an inline injection pump, not a VE or rotary pump. There is a ranger with a 4bt that was 800hp with twin turbos, fuel only. Anything is possible.

[Dieselwrencher]

Here is a link to a truck a friend of mine built in Mo. If you want to ask him questions I can get you his phone number. His wife daily drives this truck with no problems...........

http://www.competitiondiesel.com/for...ght=1972+chevy