to BB or not to BB

[DarkFox1]

that is my question anyway heh

Frames almost done.. whats not already here waiting for installation is on the way thanks to church

so.. the next step will be drivetrain.

I have the 350 block that came out of the truck, and for a while now I've been planning on a rebuild, 383 stroker, ~450hp but I've been calling around, places here want anywhere from $3500-$5000+ to do that.. whats more, as also recommended by church and a few others, replacing it with oh say.. a ZZ502 crate, would cost just about as much as the highest quote I've been given on this 383.

The only problems that I can think of doing a swap like this would be the motor mounts, of which I could get

What would yall do? I put it up as a poll to simplify that, but.. if you have any comments as to why you chose what you did, please post it here

[70 Jimmy]

They way I see it is that if you have to ask, you've never had a BBC. The other comment I have is that it seems like alot of money for 383.

[72shadetree]

ive always had a sb and wanted more so i got abb now i need to build and get it in but if i could afford a 502 all 3 of my trucks would have one hehe just one of my dreams

[mikep]

Thats way too much money for a 383. Why not build it yourself? For around $2500 you can quite easily build yourself a 383 or a 350 using mostly new top quality parts that will easily get you into the 450 HP range with equal amounts of torque.

[ChevLoRay]

Big Blocks???? Dubya is talking about tax incentives for users of SUV's....and I don't think he is talking about CR-V's, RAV4's and the like. I think (according to the papers) that Hummers, Excursions, etc., are what he is talking about.

With that said, it looks like gas guzzlers are getting a favorable nod from the 'gummint'. If that happens, AND if gas stays around the current pricing, my 350 may become a 358, 377 or even a 383! I'd love to have a BB, the last one I drove was still installed in a '66 Vette (435-horse, too). I just don't know how anything else can compare....except the '67 Nova I RODE in that had a 454+ cube, with a Rock Crusher.

I think you should go with the big block, if that is what you really want. My neighbor has a brother who has a 502 in a '69 Chevelle, and he was very impressed with the ability to "turn 'em over" at will, or whoever else got in the way.

But, in the same way that a built flathead impresses me, so does a built small block. It is amazing that what Chevrolet brought to the market in '55, still has what it takes, 48 years later. Flatheads will never equal that.

[crazy longhorn]

If you have all the machining/balancing done, & assemble the eng yourself......for the hp level you are looking for.......Illl bet about $1800-2000 in the shortblock,less cam! Then comes head selection,& it will be aftermarket for that power range......figure $1000-1200 there. If you go hyd roller,thats more cash. Then there is the intake,carb,ect. by the time you get to "turn key", you could easily have $5000 in a 383! The ZZ 502 crate will run a couple thou more, when you figure the added pcs you need to bolt it up. Im running a 383 in my longhorn, & Desk top , & Virtual dyno both put it @ 385 hp/440 tork(tork curve is also very flat),over 400ft lbs from about 2500-5000 ......it runs good. Im still a BB fan, after running a" Generic BB"(461" Olds) in the longhorn! Its not that there was much diff in the hp figures, but the tork of that big Olds was a lot more! Thats what the BB guys like, that TORK!! IMO, the 383 is a nice combo.......but if your budget is with you, go BB.......crazyL

[mikep]

No way! thats way high

Heres a breakdown of a 350 or 383 that will make 450_ Hp and 420-450 ft lbs

Block...yours. Bored and decked with new cam bearings and freeze plugs. $200 in my neck of the woods

lifters...$50
pistons $300 . Forged, so you can use nitrous and scare the pee out of yourself
cam $100
rings $50
oil pump $30
balancing $150
balancer and flexplate $105
new scat crank $175
4340 scat rods $250
heads. Pro action 200 cc. find better flow numbers at low lift. I dare you. $750
bearings and gaskets $120
timing chain $30
1.6 rockers $75
used but bead blasted torker or RPM intake $75
pushrods. $30

You have the block, sheetmetal and accesories already. That'll put you in the 450 HP or better range for around $2500. Even with a new 750 holley and a new distributor which you'd need either way your still well under $3000 turn key.

[JON67]

I think the new tax cut for suv's thing is for vehicles over 6000 pounds. it has nothing to do with the amount of gas it uses. some tax guy found a loophole that will give people with vehicles over 6000 pounds the same tax break given to farmers for theier heavy equipment. or so I heard on the news.

[O'l Buck]

There is no replacement for displacement. If ya have the money, go big

[1971Stepside]

Darkfox1...you and I are in the same boat it sounds like. I have a 4bolt 350 sitting on a stand and I priced having it machined and built to a 400 hp engine and it ended up being within $1000 to $1500 of the ZZ502. I then looked at the ZZ4 and the Fastburn, but again, I kept coming back to the 502. It will take me several months longer to save the cash for the 502, but with all the time and money that I will have invested in this thing I don't want to look back and go "I really like the truck, but I wish I would have put a big block in it"

My advise is to save the penny's and get the ZZ02 Complete Kit. That is my plan and I am looking for some 72 Big Block stands as we speak.

Good luck and let us know what you decide.

One other comment while I'm thinking about it. I understand GM Performace is going to offer a ZZ383 this spring that is suppose to have some big numbers. If you want BB performance out of a mouse you will have to look at superchargers in my opinion.

[crazy longhorn]

Mike p, what about pistons? $200-225, ARP main studs, & align hone $150-175,block clearancing for the rods$50-75? Generally , I see about $600 in block prep alone! Now to be turn key, we still need a carb & ign system, headers, ect....add about $1000! My comp roller tip rockers were $118, & the pushrods were about $80......i see about $1500(roughly) added to your figures.....crazyL 350 short block, square decked, align honed, bored .030/deckplate honed, Scat 9000 series crank, prepped & cam clearanced factory 5.7 rods, hyperutectic flattops....$1600. Edelbrock RPM heads $934,rpm intake$125,rpm carb$225, roller chain set$50,Comp cam kit$150,roller tip rockers$120,push rods$80,melling hy vol pump /pickup/driveshaft$120,gaskets$100,ARP head bolts$75,headers $150,coil/module/curvekit/adjust advance can$100,misc hardware& sealer? 6 Quart truck pan(clearanced for the rods...free= real close to $4000 to go to 400hp on a 383(turn key).....they arent cheap to build,& every time I do 1 the paper figures are lower than the end results....crazyL

[mikep]

ARP studs are not needed on a under 500 HP block. Pistons are in there. I wouldnt line hone a block unless it were absoluely necessary and if it were I'd look for another block. roller tip rockers are hype and nothing more. 1.6 stamped rockers do te same thing. There is a bit of work you can do yourself. Clearancing etc. I did not include. I stand by that figure. You need headers with a big block too. $80 for pushrods ? shop around .

[DarkFox1]

thanks for the comments yall, obviously, I am alittle biased towards the 502.. theres something that can't help but put a smile on your face when someone goes "what size engine's it got?" and for the 1st time.. I dont have to respond "a smallblock" heh

na I've never driven, sat in, been around a big block, I imagine I've heard some at the car shows tho..

I dont know anything about engines overall, I mean I know how the OHV works in theory, but I dont know how to put things together and stuff and its my understanding that theres a high risk in this activity if you're not pretty skilled in it... however my dad has done it before and has offered to help as best as he can to get the engine running (even tho the last time he put an engine together was in the mid 70s and it took 3 tries befre it'd turnover :P ) The guy I had price the engine is a trusted motor builder thats speciality is drag cars, the price was for me dropping off my old filthy 350, and picking it up later on a 450hp 383 stroker.

I dont really "have" the money.. but.. I'm not really putting a budget on this truck, I'm just saving as much as I can to get things done, I dont want this to be one of those 5 year projects but.. it might just turn out that way lol

Can't you get the big block motor mounts from ECE or something?

thanks again for the opnions, keep em comin!

[crazy longhorn]

Mike, check the list of parts in the last post....the top end of my stroker cost more than the bottom, & while I did spend a little more on the valvetrain, I feel that you get what you payfor in that area. I wind them up, & dont want any trouble with parts there! The pushrods were also .100 over stock lenght to get the geometry right. I see that you did add pistons to the list, but feel that most of the parts were figuered a little lowball( unless you have one hell of a parts source), & I have looked at many different options.....& dont honestly beleive you can build a reliable 450hp 383 for $2500......a totaly stock botton 355(meaning prepped factoy parts)....maybe. I have built enough engines over the yrs to see the costs involved........crazyL

[still w.i.p '68]

Have you thought about brackets, you already have the sm block style, Just a thought?

[mikep]

There are so many sources for high quality aftermarket parts these days that it is indeed possible to build a 450 HP small block with a rock solid bottom end and top end for $2500- $3000 usng brand name parts. Take rods for instance. 5 years ago you'd have to pick up a $700 set of Lunati's or crowers or a reconditioned set of chevy pink rods for nearly the same price. You'd have to get them clearanced for the block and cam if you were using a stroker crank which would have been an expensive and proabably crappy reground 400 job. Now you can pick up a beautifull set of h beam 4340 scat rods that use 12 point capscrews that are pre clearanced for a stroker crank for under $250. Thats awesome! Same with crankshafts, cams, rockers etc. These are the golden days of aftermarket parts my friend. And as far as heads goes. You can pick up a damn near custom cast pair of cast iron or aluminum heads with known and published flow numbers complete with springs and everything else for a fraction of what a good port job would have cost you 5 -10 years ago. 450 reliable horsepower out of a 350 for under $3000 using pretty much only a factory block as far as parts that ever came on a production vehicle ? Absolutely.

[Palf70Step]

Originally posted by O'l Buck
There is no replacement for displacement. If ya have the money, go big

What he said. If you got it, get it, and flaunt it!!

[Snowbound]

As others have said, once you go BB you will never go back. That said, decide on what the truck will be used for. Daily driver or weekend warrior? 6 MPG in a daily driver will sour you fast ( at least in Canada where gas is almost $3/gal)

If you can't afford a crate or expensive rebuild right now, why not buy yourself the rustiest 454 donor truck you can find and swap the engine and whatever else you need. Up here it's not uncommon to see mid 70's trucks and subs selling for $1000 or less. Then pick up a cam, headers etc. as your funds permit.

That's my plan anyways. No chance my wife will let me drop $7k or more on a crate 502. But I can sneak a few hun here and there under her radar. My .02

Brian

[540 Stroker]

I'd go with the 502. Lots of torque right out of the box and a real good price considering everything is brand new. Just make sure you build/get a trans that can handle the torque of that 502.

[Dean23]

I gotta say that nothing sounds as good as a bb with a lopey cam......

[breeh]

Big block all of the way! I built my 427 for about the same money you are talking on that 383. Of course, I did the assembly myself so that saved some money. I also took some time on collecting the parts so I was able to get some good deals.

Mike, I am going to have to come over to the other side of the Sound the next time I need machine work done. I've got close to $1000.00 in machine work alone. This includes balancing though.

[Desert Rat]

I personally would sell your mighty mouse stuff and get a big block.even a punched 454,you can build a damn stout motor for the price of a 502,but yes 502 is badass to say you have,but resist if you get one do what im gonna do put 292 emblems on it,and tell everyone you have a 6 with a hole in the muffler then light em up,fling that thing sideways.all your buddies will be after 292s then,making big blocks in your area less desirable therefore cheaper-just a thought,but seriously buy or build a big block.theres a huge difference.383 is a nice fun little engine though.ive ridden in a few and got a small grin on my face.but wouldnt you rather sh!t your pants?

[mikep]

breeh...


I am a small block junkie at heart. I like fast revving hi horse motors that come on strong on the top end. Its my cross to bare. Anyway there are several machine shops in this area and even Tacoma where you can get a block tanked ,bore and hone job with plates, surface decked , and get cam bearings installed all for under $250. Dynamic Balancing typically runs about $150. I wouldnt have a deck line bored unless I absolutely had to and even then I'd look for a block with straight saddles first. Thats on the advise of a few good machinists I have known or been related to. Its too easy for them to botch the job and send it out the door without saying a word. Add to that the fact your having to compensate for the shorter cam to crank centerline with special chain sets and its just not worth the hassle for the negligible returns you could get if the job were perfect.

[DarkFox1]

well, I was leaning to BB before I asked heh, finances allowing I am probablly going to go for it..

but I do want to make sure of a few things.. since this was a smallblock truck, the springs and motor mounts are both for a smallblock.. I can get motor mounts from almost anywhere but.. would those springs still work? its a 2/4 drop so it could stll go lower in the front.. a bit of a performance rake wouldn't hurt if it was because of the weight of raw power

btw, yea if I stick with the SBC I'm going to be using a built TH350, if I go with the BB, I'll probablly get a built TH400, unless the 350 can handle it

[breeh]

MIKEP, until I started playing with BBC's I was a 327 addict. I had friends with 350's and they just coudn't compare IMHO to the fast and high revving 327. In fact, I could eat the lunch of a big block (454's usually) in the 1/8 mile before they would blow by me. I then decided to try a big block. It was a 454 and quite frankly I was disappointed. Yeah, it had a lot of torque but it just didn't wind up like that old 327. I then thought that maybe the stroke relationship that existed between the 350 and 327 would also apply to the 454 and 427. Well, it does. That 427 is a whole different animal. It has the torque of a big block but winds up like a small block. Anyway, I love my 427. It has a high sphincter factor!