Boxing Frame - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

Chevy1TonFun · 12-08-2009, 04:57 PM

Just wanted some input on whether or not I should spend the time and effort to box my frame. Now that I am putting in the 600hp 486 I am concerned about the frame, especially when I start playing in the mud. What do you all think and what are the pro and cons of boxing the frame. Thanks

**Dieselwrencher** · 12-08-2009, 05:09 PM

Pros would be no frame flex, put more to the ground with the right set up. Cons, would be no flex for wheeling, and the extra weight.

**Stocker** · 12-08-2009, 06:38 PM

I've heard people say that frame flex is a good thing -- this makes no sense to me. Sure, you'll get a bit more articulation off-road, but I'd much rather have a rigid chassis and let the suspension do the flexing. Need more flex? Modify the bouncy bits. If I had 600 hp, I'd look into boxing the frame.

.02

duallyjams · 12-08-2009, 09:39 PM

Anything with any type of roll cage has a stiff frame and the suspension does all the flexing ie off road trucks , monster truck, buggy.
Box the frame and let the suspension do all the work.

Chevy1TonFun · 12-08-2009, 10:09 PM

Anybody have pics of boxed frames?

duallyjams · 12-09-2009, 09:07 AM

No pics but here is a thread http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=262271
www.DIY4x.com is working on a kit.

OLDCHEV4X4 · 12-09-2009, 10:29 AM

I bent my frame on my K5 racer. Right where the front spring, shackle hanger is. Its a week spot. Took it to a buddy and he put it on the rack and fixed it. It's boxed in that area now, but I would like to box the whole thing.
Chevy army trucks have a reinforcement plate bolted in, in this area.

Chevy1TonFun · 12-09-2009, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duallyjams

No pics but here is a thread http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=262271
www.DIY4x.com is working on a kit.

I talked with Kurt today, and he said he has a frame box kit for 73-80 short bed. No 67-72. So it looks like I going to start gathering cardboard and start a tracin'. Maybe I'll sell the drawings to Kurt, lol.

DieselEater · 12-10-2009, 10:45 PM

Just my opinion..........

I'm pushing 700 HP on a stock non-boxed frame, with a huge load behind me!!!

Now, granted there is not alot of articulation involved, but frame flex is always necessary!

If something is gonna give, let the frame flex so that "other part" doesn't take the excess stress and break.

Also, if you are mudding, than your wheel spin will never let your frame flex anyway. Rock crawling is a different story....The rock won't give and the torque will be applied to your drivetrain/frame.

A........

litebulblsc · 12-10-2009, 11:04 PM

Save your time boxing the frame and put a roll bar in. It will stiffen your frame as much as you want by your design, plus it adds safety.

Burt4x4 · 12-11-2009, 09:55 AM

I didn't box my frame but I did add \ / crossmember bracing to the front of the frame & the engine crossmember/engine mount setup is Uber tight & strong. I'm not at 600Hp but my 454 is around 400Hp & 550Tq. I have hammered down many a time climbing sand dunes and "drag racing" full throttle and shifting my SM465 as fast as I can hehehe Zero issues with my frame so far.
I love the flex off road/trail riding. My buddy "truggied" his 72k5 so he has allot of tubing tied to the frame. He has made it clear he liked the frame flex he use to have before he tied all that tube to his frame.
Anyway Happy Friday

Chevy1TonFun · 12-11-2009, 03:10 PM

There is a lot of frame flex when I go mud bogging. I am really torn on what to do. There are a lot of great points on why and why not. Keep the advise come and thanks for all the input guys!

rwolf9653 · 12-11-2009, 03:23 PM

My '85 K5 is used on mud and rocks, and I have WAY too much frame flex. This winter I am tearing it down because all of the flex has ruined the body. I intend in tying a full cage into the frame to reduce/eliminate the flex. I always liked the extra flex that I got from my frame, and I do think that it has kept me from breaking other driveline items in the past, but it has gotten to be too much.
Could you box the front half to compensate for the extra horses, and leave the back open?

racin69z · 12-13-2009, 01:09 PM

I boxed mine back to the first crossmember on both sides. On the steering side, I had about 5 cracks running in all directions from the gearbox bolt holes. The frame was actually completely broke in one place except for the top horizontal piece. I would at least box/reinforce that area.

bigbadchev72 · 12-13-2009, 03:19 PM

I think everyone is missing the point, He has 15" of lift, There will be no suspension flex

I would just box/brace the Known weak spots Steering box. engine crossmember, and around the front spring shackle mounts and call it a day.

If you box the whole thing, I think you are not gonna be happy at all with almost zero flex its gonna ride like a tank.

**Dieselwrencher** · 12-14-2009, 04:08 PM

I agree with bigbadchev72. A super rigid frame isn't what you want on a trail with a long rig. It'll work with a jeep with 20" of suspension travel. But I doubt it would be ideal for this truck.

**Stocker** · 12-14-2009, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbadchev72

I think everyone is missing the point, He has 15" of lift, There will be no suspension flex

If you box the whole thing, I think you are not gonna be happy at all with almost zero flex its gonna ride like a tank.

Wait a second... besides the obvious (running large tires), isn't the whole point of a lift increased articulation (flex, travel...) to keep the tires in contact with the ground over very rugged terrain? Seems like if the springs are done right, there will be plenty of suspension compliance. Of course, if they aren't much more than massive spring packs from a dump truck, it's gonna beat you up whether the frame bends or not.

bigbadchev72 · 12-14-2009, 09:17 PM

Thats kinda a loaded question, Bigger lift and tires is usually to increase ground clearance, and is good for mud so that you arent plowing the body into the mud.

Rock crawling where you really need the articulation you see huge tires with very little lift, most of the time it is around the 2-4" range to keep the center of gravity close to the ground. They will sawsall fenders to make room for the bigger tires.

**Dieselwrencher** · 12-14-2009, 09:18 PM

Leaf springs don't tend to articulate too much from everything I've seen.

bigbadchev72 · 12-14-2009, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dieselwrencher

Leaf springs don't tend to articulate too much from everything I've seen.

It gets worse the more arch in the springs, I have 8" springs on mine and it has maybe a foot of flex.........Tops, the rest is body and frame.

ffp00ch214 · 12-17-2009, 09:14 AM

Leafs can perform decently in the right application ,and as stated earlier the more arch in the spring the less flex and rougher the ride. My project is no rock crawler by any means but Im very interested in decent flex and low center of gravity. The trucks running a 52/64 leaf combo are pretty impressive, and its only about 4" of lift using mostly stock parts. Mine is in the making as we speak.

**Dieselwrencher** · 12-17-2009, 03:59 PM

All I know is if you fully box the frame hard like in a wheeling situation, if it twists, it will either stay there, be tweaked, or you will have some twisted crossmembers to deal with. You might be able to sleeve the front area by the shackles to under the cab to help make it stronger but allow some flex in the chassis still.

12-08-2009, 04:57 PM	#1
Chevy1TonFun Grease Monkey Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Fresno CA Posts: 750	Boxing Frame Just wanted some input on whether or not I should spend the time and effort to box my frame. Now that I am putting in the 600hp 486 I am concerned about the frame, especially when I start playing in the mud. What do you all think and what are the pro and cons of boxing the frame. Thanks __________________ Tow Rig: 2012 Chevy 2500HD CCSB LTZ Z71 4x4 Duramax Ultimate Offroad Build: 1978 Chevy Silverado K30 Crewcab Build Link http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=654053 Mud Truck: 1972 Chevy Cheyenne K30 4x4, 468/400/205, D60/D70HD, 18" Custom Lift, 17x39" IROKs FOR SALE http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/c...ton-4x4&cat=12

12-08-2009, 05:09 PM	#2
Dieselwrencher 6>8 Plugless........ Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Prairie City, Ia Posts: 17,140	Re: Boxing Frame Pros would be no frame flex, put more to the ground with the right set up. Cons, would be no flex for wheeling, and the extra weight. __________________ Ryan 1972 Chevy Longhorn K30 Cheyenne Super, 359 Inline 6 cylinder, Auto Trans, Tilt, Diesel Tach/Vach, Buckets, Rare Rear 4-link and air ride option Build Thread 1972 GMC Sierra Grande Longhorn 4x4 1972 Chevy Cheyenne Super K20 Long Step side tilt, tach, tow hooks, AC, 350 4 speed 1972 C10 Suburban Custom Deluxe 1969 Chevy milk truck 1971 Camaro RS 5.3 BTR STG3 Cam Super T10 1940 Ford 354 Hemi 46RH Ford 9" on air ride huge project *Tired of spark plugs? Check this out.*

12-08-2009, 06:38 PM	#3
Stocker 20' Daredevil (Ret) Join Date: May 2003 Location: Jefferson State Posts: 13,547	Re: Boxing Frame I've heard people say that frame flex is a good thing -- this makes no sense to me. Sure, you'll get a bit more articulation off-road, but I'd much rather have a rigid chassis and let the suspension do the flexing. Need more flex? Modify the bouncy bits. If I had 600 hp, I'd look into boxing the frame. .02 __________________ - Mike - 1972 K20 LWB 350/350/205 RIP El Jay

12-08-2009, 09:39 PM	#4
duallyjams Registered User Join Date: May 2007 Location: Deale Md Posts: 4,663	Re: Boxing Frame Anything with any type of roll cage has a stiff frame and the suspension does all the flexing ie off road trucks , monster truck, buggy. Box the frame and let the suspension do all the work. __________________ James 63 GMC V6 4speed carryall 65 chevy swb bbw V8 auto 68 K20 327/4 speed, buddy buckets 2002 GMC CC Dually Duramax 64 GMC lwb 3/4 V6 4speed SOLD 66 GMC swb bbw buddy buckets SOLD IG duallyjams The only thing that stays the same is constant change!

12-08-2009, 10:09 PM	#5
Chevy1TonFun Grease Monkey Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Fresno CA Posts: 750	Re: Boxing Frame Anybody have pics of boxed frames? __________________ Tow Rig: 2012 Chevy 2500HD CCSB LTZ Z71 4x4 Duramax Ultimate Offroad Build: 1978 Chevy Silverado K30 Crewcab Build Link http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=654053 Mud Truck: 1972 Chevy Cheyenne K30 4x4, 468/400/205, D60/D70HD, 18" Custom Lift, 17x39" IROKs FOR SALE http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/c...ton-4x4&cat=12

12-09-2009, 09:07 AM	#6
duallyjams Registered User Join Date: May 2007 Location: Deale Md Posts: 4,663	Re: Boxing Frame No pics but here is a thread http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=262271 www.DIY4x.com is working on a kit. __________________ James 63 GMC V6 4speed carryall 65 chevy swb bbw V8 auto 68 K20 327/4 speed, buddy buckets 2002 GMC CC Dually Duramax 64 GMC lwb 3/4 V6 4speed SOLD 66 GMC swb bbw buddy buckets SOLD IG duallyjams The only thing that stays the same is constant change!

12-09-2009, 10:29 AM	#7
OLDCHEV4X4 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Chester County PA, USA Posts: 1,228	Re: Boxing Frame I bent my frame on my K5 racer. Right where the front spring, shackle hanger is. Its a week spot. Took it to a buddy and he put it on the rack and fixed it. It's boxed in that area now, but I would like to box the whole thing. Chevy army trucks have a reinforcement plate bolted in, in this area. __________________ 72 k/10 short wideside 72 k/5 Blazer 72 K/5 Blazer - obstacle course racer 72 custom/10 8' bed 70 K/5 Blazer 67 C-30 GMC Flat bed 86 GMC K2500 Plow Truck 85 GMC K3500 84 M1008 85 M1008 77 G30 Motor Home 72 Sears 12hp Tractor Glenmoore, Pennsylvania

12-10-2009, 10:45 PM	#9
DieselEater Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Trinidad, Colorado Posts: 642	Re: Boxing Frame Just my opinion.......... I'm pushing 700 HP on a stock non-boxed frame, with a huge load behind me!!! Now, granted there is not alot of articulation involved, but frame flex is always necessary! If something is gonna give, let the frame flex so that "other part" doesn't take the excess stress and break. Also, if you are mudding, than your wheel spin will never let your frame flex anyway. Rock crawling is a different story....The rock won't give and the torque will be applied to your drivetrain/frame. A........ __________________ 69' 3/4 4X4 470ci BBC 700 HP.... D60/14bolt 205/465 http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...ndid=127691959

12-10-2009, 11:04 PM	#10
litebulblsc Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: LaSalle Mi Posts: 500	Re: Boxing Frame Save your time boxing the frame and put a roll bar in. It will stiffen your frame as much as you want by your design, plus it adds safety.

12-11-2009, 09:55 AM	#11
Burt4x4 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Modesto, CA Posts: 1,842	Re: Boxing Frame I didn't box my frame but I did add \ / crossmember bracing to the front of the frame & the engine crossmember/engine mount setup is Uber tight & strong. I'm not at 600Hp but my 454 is around 400Hp & 550Tq. I have hammered down many a time climbing sand dunes and "drag racing" full throttle and shifting my SM465 as fast as I can hehehe Zero issues with my frame so far. I love the flex off road/trail riding. My buddy "truggied" his 72k5 so he has allot of tubing tied to the frame. He has made it clear he liked the frame flex he use to have before he tied all that tube to his frame. Anyway Happy Friday __________________ 1972 K5 MPFI454/Sm465/Np205/D60/14FFd/Re-Centerd H1s w/Swamper Iroks

12-11-2009, 03:10 PM	#12
Chevy1TonFun Grease Monkey Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Fresno CA Posts: 750	Re: Boxing Frame There is a lot of frame flex when I go mud bogging. I am really torn on what to do. There are a lot of great points on why and why not. Keep the advise come and thanks for all the input guys! __________________ Tow Rig: 2012 Chevy 2500HD CCSB LTZ Z71 4x4 Duramax Ultimate Offroad Build: 1978 Chevy Silverado K30 Crewcab Build Link http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=654053 Mud Truck: 1972 Chevy Cheyenne K30 4x4, 468/400/205, D60/D70HD, 18" Custom Lift, 17x39" IROKs FOR SALE http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/c...ton-4x4&cat=12

12-11-2009, 03:23 PM	#13
rwolf9653 more ideas than money Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: spring grove, pa Posts: 1,068	Re: Boxing Frame My '85 K5 is used on mud and rocks, and I have WAY too much frame flex. This winter I am tearing it down because all of the flex has ruined the body. I intend in tying a full cage into the frame to reduce/eliminate the flex. I always liked the extra flex that I got from my frame, and I do think that it has kept me from breaking other driveline items in the past, but it has gotten to be too much. Could you box the front half to compensate for the extra horses, and leave the back open? __________________ Randy 1948 Chevy 3100 5 window 1966 Chevy C30 Dually 1967 Chevy K10 1972 Chevy K20 1972 Chevy C10 1972 Chevy K5 Blazer 1987 Chevy V10 2003 Chevy Suburban

12-13-2009, 01:09 PM	#14
racin69z Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: jackson MO Posts: 143	Re: Boxing Frame I boxed mine back to the first crossmember on both sides. On the steering side, I had about 5 cracks running in all directions from the gearbox bolt holes. The frame was actually completely broke in one place except for the top horizontal piece. I would at least box/reinforce that area.

12-13-2009, 03:19 PM	#15
bigbadchev72 People know me Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Hermiston, oregon Posts: 840	Re: Boxing Frame I think everyone is missing the point, He has 15" of lift, There will be no suspension flex I would just box/brace the Known weak spots Steering box. engine crossmember, and around the front spring shackle mounts and call it a day. If you box the whole thing, I think you are not gonna be happy at all with almost zero flex its gonna ride like a tank. __________________ 1972 k/5 blazer CST 4X4 Crate 350, th350/205, dana44with trac-loc/14 bolt with detroit locker, 4 wheel discs 4.56s, 8" suspension lift using 73-87springs, 1" zerorate custom front crossmember, HAD CV drivelines and driveshaft e-brake, full cage, PRP seats, Full autometer gauges, 38x14.5x16 Toyo M/Ts, 16x10 Polished aluminum rockcrusher wheels 1967 longbox 4x4, Strong 400/400/208, 44/12bolt 4.10s, 6" lift, 35" Toyo M/Ts on corvette rally wheels

12-14-2009, 04:08 PM	#16
Dieselwrencher 6>8 Plugless........ Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Prairie City, Ia Posts: 17,140	Re: Boxing Frame I agree with bigbadchev72. A super rigid frame isn't what you want on a trail with a long rig. It'll work with a jeep with 20" of suspension travel. But I doubt it would be ideal for this truck. __________________ Ryan 1972 Chevy Longhorn K30 Cheyenne Super, 359 Inline 6 cylinder, Auto Trans, Tilt, Diesel Tach/Vach, Buckets, Rare Rear 4-link and air ride option Build Thread 1972 GMC Sierra Grande Longhorn 4x4 1972 Chevy Cheyenne Super K20 Long Step side tilt, tach, tow hooks, AC, 350 4 speed 1972 C10 Suburban Custom Deluxe 1969 Chevy milk truck 1971 Camaro RS 5.3 BTR STG3 Cam Super T10 1940 Ford 354 Hemi 46RH Ford 9" on air ride huge project *Tired of spark plugs? Check this out.*



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12-14-2009, 09:17 PM	#18
bigbadchev72 People know me Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Hermiston, oregon Posts: 840	Re: Boxing Frame Thats kinda a loaded question, Bigger lift and tires is usually to increase ground clearance, and is good for mud so that you arent plowing the body into the mud. Rock crawling where you really need the articulation you see huge tires with very little lift, most of the time it is around the 2-4" range to keep the center of gravity close to the ground. They will sawsall fenders to make room for the bigger tires. __________________ 1972 k/5 blazer CST 4X4 Crate 350, th350/205, dana44with trac-loc/14 bolt with detroit locker, 4 wheel discs 4.56s, 8" suspension lift using 73-87springs, 1" zerorate custom front crossmember, HAD CV drivelines and driveshaft e-brake, full cage, PRP seats, Full autometer gauges, 38x14.5x16 Toyo M/Ts, 16x10 Polished aluminum rockcrusher wheels 1967 longbox 4x4, Strong 400/400/208, 44/12bolt 4.10s, 6" lift, 35" Toyo M/Ts on corvette rally wheels

12-14-2009, 09:18 PM	#19
Dieselwrencher 6>8 Plugless........ Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Prairie City, Ia Posts: 17,140	Re: Boxing Frame Leaf springs don't tend to articulate too much from everything I've seen. __________________ Ryan 1972 Chevy Longhorn K30 Cheyenne Super, 359 Inline 6 cylinder, Auto Trans, Tilt, Diesel Tach/Vach, Buckets, Rare Rear 4-link and air ride option Build Thread 1972 GMC Sierra Grande Longhorn 4x4 1972 Chevy Cheyenne Super K20 Long Step side tilt, tach, tow hooks, AC, 350 4 speed 1972 C10 Suburban Custom Deluxe 1969 Chevy milk truck 1971 Camaro RS 5.3 BTR STG3 Cam Super T10 1940 Ford 354 Hemi 46RH Ford 9" on air ride huge project *Tired of spark plugs? Check this out.*

12-17-2009, 09:14 AM	#21
ffp00ch214 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Jane Lew W.V. Posts: 45	Re: Boxing Frame Leafs can perform decently in the right application ,and as stated earlier the more arch in the spring the less flex and rougher the ride. My project is no rock crawler by any means but Im very interested in decent flex and low center of gravity. The trucks running a 52/64 leaf combo are pretty impressive, and its only about 4" of lift using mostly stock parts. Mine is in the making as we speak. __________________ "All my life, I always wanted to be somebody. Now I see that I should have been more specific." '73-'87 Chevy C/K Truck/Suburban 350/465/208/10B/14BSF '96 Jeep XJ 4.5" lift 32X11.5 4.0 HO D30/Chrysler 8.25

12-17-2009, 03:59 PM	#22
Dieselwrencher 6>8 Plugless........ Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Prairie City, Ia Posts: 17,140	Re: Boxing Frame All I know is if you fully box the frame hard like in a wheeling situation, if it twists, it will either stay there, be tweaked, or you will have some twisted crossmembers to deal with. You might be able to sleeve the front area by the shackles to under the cab to help make it stronger but allow some flex in the chassis still. __________________ Ryan 1972 Chevy Longhorn K30 Cheyenne Super, 359 Inline 6 cylinder, Auto Trans, Tilt, Diesel Tach/Vach, Buckets, Rare Rear 4-link and air ride option Build Thread 1972 GMC Sierra Grande Longhorn 4x4 1972 Chevy Cheyenne Super K20 Long Step side tilt, tach, tow hooks, AC, 350 4 speed 1972 C10 Suburban Custom Deluxe 1969 Chevy milk truck 1971 Camaro RS 5.3 BTR STG3 Cam Super T10 1940 Ford 354 Hemi 46RH Ford 9" on air ride huge project *Tired of spark plugs? Check this out.* Last edited by Dieselwrencher; 12-17-2009 at 03:59 PM.

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