5 speed in m y 64

[G-REX]

I'm putting a built 350 in my truck and want to get rid of 3 speed and go with an s-10 or camaro 5 speed.Which trans would be better to use,and what parts can I use from my 3 speed (bell housing,fork,ect.) Any one here ever do this.? Thanks

[astrochimp]

Links I have saved for my swap-

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=169265

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=313954

http://hamiltonintakes.com/products/s10t-5-adapter.html

http://www.transmissioncenter.net/

[lakeroadster]

And another link
http://www.stovebolt.com/ubbthreads/...875#Post592875

Here is a fact filled article entitled T-5 Transmission Swaps from Hemmings Muscle Machines, July 1, 2004 - By Jim O'clair

One of the most versatile transmissions in the last 20 years or so has been the Borg-Warner T-5 manual transmission. This five-speed unit was used as original equipment by several manufacturers and can be easily adapted into older muscle cars as well. Based on the Borg Warner SR-4 and T-4 four-speed, a fifth gear was added to the case, creating the T-5. Actually, American Motors was the first manufacturer to use this transmission in the 1982 Spirit and Concord cars. Ford soon adopted the T-5, using this unit in the 1983 Mustangs and Thunderbirds. GM used the T-5 in the 1982 and up S/T series pickups and small Blazers, and their Astro vans. They began installing them in 1983 in the Camaros and Firebirds. Nissan also liked the idea of an internal shifter linkage five-speed, and they used this transmission in the 280ZX/300Z cars as well. Additionally, Honda and Isuzu used the T-5 in some models in the 1990s.

One of the advantages of this transmission is that the internal parts will interchange between versions of this unit. This enables you to select from several shift ratios, and the transmission is adaptable to different engine conversions or rear-end ratios. A T-5, while not known as a drag-racing transmission, can improve gas mileage in cars and trucks with taller gears because of the overdrive fifth-gear ratio. Another advantage is that the shifting linkages are internal, improving clearance for easier conversion because external shift linkage clearance is not an issue. The T-5 used in the GM models incorporates a hydraulic clutch master on the firewall and slave attached to the bell housing to provide smoother shifting with less effort than with a conventional mechanical clutch linkage. The Ford version of the T-5 uses a shift cable attached to the clutch pedal. The cases are all-aluminum and are referred to as toploaders because the access cover for the internals is on the top of the transmission rather than on the side like some other standard transmissions.


There were two generations of T-5 transmissions. All units used from beginning of production in 1982 until mid-1985 were referred to as "non-world class" or NWC. Non-world class versions had all-bronze synchro assemblies and used roller bearings to support the countershaft. In mid-1985, Ford began using the next generation T-5, called the "world class" or WC unit. These had numerous design improvements. First and second synchros were bearing and shaft assemblies rather than solid shafts in the non-world class, and the third and fourth synchro was a steel-reinforced unit with fiber-lined rings. Only fifth gear was still an all-bronze synchro. Both generation Ford T-5s used a 1-1/16-inch 10-spline input shaft diameter and a 28-spline output shaft. The 1983-92 GM T-5s that were coupled to V-8 engines have a 26-spline, 1-1/8-inch input shaft. The GM 4-cylinder and V-6 T-5s used the 3.52 through 4.03 ratios and were 1-inch, 14-spline input shafts. Later model F-Body world-class versions of the GM T-5s used the lower, 2.95 to 1 ratio gearbox and are the most sought-after for GM applications.

The non-world class T-5s were used in the following cars and trucks:
1982-85 AMC Spirit, Eagle, Concord
1982-96 Jeep CJ and XJ trucks
1982-85 Ford Mustang, Thunderbird
1983-87 Camaro, Firebird
1982-92 Chevy S/T-10 pickups, Blazers, Astro van
1982-83 Nissan 280ZX
1984-86 Nissan 300ZX
1984-86 Chevette and Pontiac T-1000 also used this unit; however, the countershaft bearings were smaller and the T-Body bellhousing was not interchangeable with any other GM models.
The more popular world-class units were used in these original vehicles:
Late 1985-96 Mustang/Cougar/Thunderbird
1988-96 Camaro and Firebird
1993-95 Chevy/GMC S/T series trucks
1994-96 Honda Passport
1991-97 Isuzu Rodeo

Note: 4-cylinder Ford 2.3-liter Turbo units as well as 1993-96 Cobra "Z-Spec" T-5s do not interchange directly, due to a difference in the input shaft bearings. The most important difference between the non-world class and the world-class transmissions is the torque rating. Later is better (or the higher the tag number). For example, 1983-89 Mustang units, both world class and non-world class, were rated at 265-lbs.ft. of torque. The 1990-93 versions were rated at 300-lbs.ft., and the 1993-96 Cobra "Z-Spec" T-5 was rated at 330-lbs.ft.

You should be looking for as complete a unit as possible, when searching the swap meets or salvage yards for these transmissions. On GM's crossmember, clutch master, clutch hose, and clutch slave cylinder should come with the unit to save time and plumbing. It would be even better if the starter and flywheel were still with the car; usually later-model starters are lighter and have higher torque. If converting from an automatic-equipped car to a manual, a clutch pedal from the donor car will also be needed, as well as the bellhousing. On Ford vehicles, hydraulics are not used, and a shift cable is employed in place of the clutch master and slave cylinders. Make sure to take this cable when buying parts off the donor car. Aftermarket clutch cables and crossmembers are available, if these parts cannot be found.

An identification tag number, which is on one of the mounting bolts on the tail case, can identify all T-5 manual 5-speeds. They all start with prefix 1352, and the next few digits will tell you what the unit came out of originally and what its shift ratio is. You can check any original tag number online at www.5speeds.com. Numbering series starts at 001 and runs as high as about 260. Borg-Warner sold the rights to the T-5 to Tremec in the late 1990s; however, there is no difference between the two manufacturers' production units, other than the name used in the castings.

Ratios depend on tag number, but most are in the 3.35 to 3.97:1 range. There are 2.95:1 units that were used in the late-model Mustangs, Camaros and Firebirds. The 2.3 Turbo Fords used a few units that were 4.06:1. Speedometer drive gears were 6, 7 or 8 teeth, but may have to be changed, depending on engine and rear-end size in the transplant vehicle. Changing of the speedometer gear is a definite requirement when installing a transmission and V-8 unit in a 6-cylinder, and vice versa.

The Ford versions of the T-5 will adapt easily to the earlier Ford three- and four-speed manual bellhousings by an adapter plate which enlarges the metric mounting bosses to 1/2-inch diameter, and adds 3/4-inch in spacing. Installation of a T-5 into an earlier Ford product is fairly easy, because of the bellhousing similarities. You should make sure, however, that the proper flywheel is used, depending on the year of your engine. The 1981 and earlier Ford small-blocks used a 28-ounce imbalance, 157-tooth flywheel. Any of the small-block Fords newer than 1981 used a 50-ounce imbalance, 157-tooth flywheel. These should not be interchanged. Late-model T-5 bellhousings used on earlier Ford V-8 engines will bolt up, but the late-model fulcrum for the fork needs to be replaced with an early-style fulcrum installed on the inside of the housing to align the throw-out bearing fork. You can, of course, also use an aftermarket scatter shield for this changeover, eliminating these adapters.

Because of the similarities in earlier and later Ford small-block bellhousings, it's possible your acquired T-5, with an early flywheel, will fit in these small-block V-8 applications:

1965-68 Ford full-size cars
1965-69 Comet
1967-70 Fairlane
1967-70 Falcon
1968-73 Mustang
1971-74 Torino
1970-74 Montego

Mounting a T-5 in place of a Super T-10, Muncie or Saginaw into a Chevy is pretty straightforward; the input shaft length is identical, and the whole unit is only two inches longer overall at the transmission mount pad. A shorter driveshaft would be required, and modifications to the crossmember would be necessary to mount the T-5 properly. The bellhousing-to-block bolt patterns are the same on the earlier V-8s, and the bellhousing-to-transmission configuration is common to all other GM manual transmissions; so installation of a 1983-92 GM T-5 out of a V-8 should be relatively painless, if you can acquire all the necessary parts from the donor car. Although the V-6 and 4-cylinder input shafts are 14-spline and will fit with the proper clutch disc, they are not recommended for V-8 applications. They do not have the higher torque ratings required for the V-8 units without upgrading the internals. Installing one of these five-speeds in a Buick, Pontiac or Oldsmobile would require the use of the proper B-O-P bellhousing. There are two that have been found to fit both engine and transmission. One is out of a 1979-81 Firebird or 1979 Skylark (casting number 563441). The other is from a 1982 F-body (casting number 14037657).

All 1993 and up GM cars with the T-5 used the Ford bellhousing bolt pattern, and not the earlier GM pattern. The 1993 and up GM applications were limited to V-6 Camaros/Firebirds, as the option was not offered in the V-8s. You can identify these transmissions by the 26-spline GM input shaft with a Ford bolt pattern. You should also know that F-Body bellhousings mount the transmission at a 17-degree angle towards the driver, which could cause problems when trying to line up and mount the shifter through the floorboards of other models.

Aftermarket adapters to mount the Ford T-5 are available for AMC V-8s, Ford flatheads, and early 1950s Chrysler Hemis. Adapters for GM T-5s are also available for these same cars, plus Buick V-6 and Chrysler flathead 6-cylinder. A, B, and E-Body Mopars can also use the T-5 with an aftermarket bellhousing from one of several suppliers. AMC and Jeep can replace their existing SR4 or T-4 unit with the T-5, and adapters are available to install it in 4WD Jeep applications too. There are numerous "How To" installation instructions on Internet web forums from various enthusiast groups that include Imports and early Chevrolet six-cylinder truck applications.

T-5s are currently selling for between $150 and $500 through swap meets and salvage yards, and complete changeover kits are being sold in the $850 range. Rebuilt T-5s run about $700 to $850. The improvements in performance gained by changing to a T-5 will certainly outweigh the effort required to complete this installation, and the fuel savings, as an added bonus, will help make the decision to upgrade to this transmission one to consider.

[slorio]

Another link:
inliners.org

They have a great write up on T-5 swaps.

The short answers are there are world class and non world class T-5's. Some of the Firebirds had world class T-5's which are the stronger of the bunch. The inliners site tells you how to identify each and has references on the overdrive ratios for different T-5's.

The bellhousing and fork from your three speed will all work. Get the clutch plate and yoke from the donor T-5 as it is likely your 3 speed has a coarse spline that will not work. You will also likely need to shorten your driveshaft.

[courage 80]

I had a similar situation... wanted to get a overdrive transmission.

I was looking at the T-5 and decided that if I was going to swap the trans out, I was going to put in something I would know I would be happy with. The T-5s that were in my area were going for 400-800 dollars depending on which vehicle it came out of and the condition. I know guys can get them cheaper, but I started looking at the T-56 6 speed. I found quite a few in the $1000-1200 price range. There is no worry about whether the trans can stand up to the 350 or not. I used the bellhousing from the trans am that I got it out of, along with the hydraulic clutch set up. If you have a 1 piece rear main seal, you can get away with using the clutch/ flywheel from the donor car usually as well. I had a 2 piece on my 350 and had to get a different flywheel. The only other thing I had to change was the starter. I got the trans and set up for 1000.... the flywheel was @ $250, starter @ $100. So for less than 1500 I have a 6 speed in the truck. I couldnt use 6 gear until I redid the back end.... but man is it worth it now. I am running 4.56 posi in back and can throw her into 6th gear and cruise the highway.

[G-REX]

Thanks for info,but does anyone have pics or dia,of clutch assem. when I go from 3 on tree to floor shift and from 6 cylinder to small block,..I know the 6 cylinders have a horseshoe type bracket bolt to the motor for the clutch assem arm,but does a small block have a ball stud that threads into the motor and has a ball for the clutch assembly pivot...Hope this makes sense.Thanks

[Arekusu]

I'll just say this.. I've blown up my T-5 two times behind my small block... If I had kept it behind my I6 I think I would have been fine. Do yourself a favor, buy a ford 5-speed 3550 and do the chevy input shaft change or buy the TKO 500/600 and save yourself headache and money in the long run if you plan on running a small block later. I was saying go for the T-5 a while ago but after blowing it up 2 times (in the past year) and now having the TKO.. just buy the dang. TKO.

Alex

[Captainfab]

Yes, When converting to a V8, the ball stud screws directly into the block. Most small block V8's had a location for the ballstud to screw directly into the block. There were a few small block castings that didn't have the boss in the location needed for the bellcrank ballstud to be used in these trucks. So when shopping for an engine/engine block keep this in mind

Originally Posted by G-REX

Thanks for info,but does anyone have pics or dia,of clutch assem. when I go from 3 on tree to floor shift and from 6 cylinder to small block,..I know the 6 cylinders have a horseshoe type bracket bolt to the motor for the clutch assem arm,but does a small block have a ball stud that threads into the motor and has a ball for the clutch assembly pivot...Hope this makes sense.Thanks

[G-REX]

Thanks guys.

[ob1monkey]

I've had mine behind a 350 for about 3 years. built the engine about a year ago up the power to close to 350hp/400tq. blew the t-5 3 time in 6 months. ended up replace almost everything inside the case, and switched to a mixture of 80/90 weight gear oil and 50w engine oil. had a local trans part house give me pointers on shimming the input to get the right preload. No Problems since, holds up to every thing I throw at it even ripped the trans mount in two one day playing. they tend to get a bad rap. total cost I have in mine is about 1100(350 original purchase, about 200 each time I blew it up for hard parts.) You can use a 79 chevy c10 with a 400sb, as a donor for an 11inch 26 spline clutch. will hold alot better than the stock 10.5 clutches that normally come with them.

[ob1monkey]

Forgot to mention mine is a 84 no world class. I have a 89 world class thats going in my 63 nova wagon once I rebuild it.