So, I was taking apart my engine and...... - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

WORNBRAKES · 02-01-2003, 08:10 PM

I discovered that my #4 piston was missing a chunck out of the top of it. Not only is a chunck missing but there is about 7 nicks or gouges on it.
I was not exspecting to find this. I figured that I would have to redo the heads but had no idea that I would have to replace the pistons. I havent even checked all of the other internals, I just removed and took it apart today.
The only thihg that I can figure to do this to a piston top is a dropped valve. The valves for #4 dont look any worse than the rest. This is so disapointing. I was wanting to do this rebuild for 1000 or less but it looks as if it may cost a few extra dillars.
I measured my rod play prior to pulling them and found most within the .023 limit that my Haynes lists. My clearance on the #5 and #6 rods was .030+. I only have a phealer up to .030 I guess I will be replacing the rods also.
As I was pulling the pistons out, I found that my #3 was broken on between the rings. The dam thing basicly fell into pieces when I pulled it out.
Here are some pics of the #4

WORNBRAKES · 02-01-2003, 08:11 PM

another

WORNBRAKES · 02-01-2003, 08:12 PM

and another

WORNBRAKES · 02-01-2003, 08:14 PM

Here are some pics of the #3

WORNBRAKES · 02-01-2003, 08:16 PM

last one.
Who else has opened this can of worms before and what did you figure the cause?

**68 Stepside** · 02-01-2003, 10:30 PM

good lord man! that really sucks!!! ttt

**Palf70Step** · 02-01-2003, 10:30 PM

Ouch. That hurts Mario. Sorry to hear the news. I had a 240Z in Japan that looked almost the same. Those are things that just mess up a good working dy on your truck!

**Palf70Step** · 02-01-2003, 10:32 PM

Oh yeah, I knew what caused mine. I sucked in water through the tailpipe and I guess the cold water just blew a whole in the piston and I thinkl a piece wdege/fubared my valve. I ended up having to trash that block. Hope yours is OK.

*racedvl* · 02-01-2003, 10:39 PM

Bummer. . . .

bigjimzlll · 02-01-2003, 10:49 PM

thats not good...hope you can save tthe block and crank..if so i would go with main studs and an align hone..new or rebuilt rods..its probably going to take a .030 over bore to clean up..good luck
Jim

mikep684x4 · 02-01-2003, 11:53 PM

Detination is the demon you are looking at. More commonly known as "PINGING". Improper timing,poor fuel,to much compression and age are some of the major contributors. It creats a rattle in the piston that is very devistateing.Your ring glans are the norrowest part of the piston so it breaks first.I've even seen the skirts break off. The dents in the top of the piston were probley from the chunk bouncing between the head and piston till it broke up small enough to be blown out the exhaust. I'm not sure of the machine cost where you are but A 350 small block,bored .030 over,new cam bearing and freeze plugs,and the heads rebuilt run about $650. A motor kit for Summit racing with 9:73 compression and all the gaskets and bearings,new oil pump,and all the little things runs around $319 with free shipping.The only thing left is your choice of cam.You might still be able to get this thing fixed for around $1000-$1100.I wish you luck.Be sure to check the big companies(Jegs,Summit,P.A.W)be for you have you local guys order your parts.Hope this helps

greasemonkey · 02-02-2003, 12:16 AM

That sucks.. I sure wish I had the funds, equipment, and space to rebuild mine..

Johns70 · 02-02-2003, 01:30 AM

wornbrakes check out northern auto parts they have master rebuild kits for 150 bucks and that includes pistons,cam,lifters,rings, all bearings,frost plugs,oil pump,timing chain,gaskets,any sizes and all name brand parts, trw,clevite,fel pro,sealed power.

O'l Buck · 02-02-2003, 02:15 AM

hmmmm.....kinda reminds me of when I rebuilt my 330, all 8 pistons had cracked skirts and 4 had broken ring lands. I bought a 327 on an auction once that had a recent overhaul but was burning gallons of oil......pulled it apart to discover the idiot that put it together forgot to stagger the ring gaps. It shot fire down the sides of 2 pistons and scored the heck out of the cylinders......it was already bored .060, and would take at least .030 to get the cylinders trued up again. To the iron pile with it.............I agree, check Norther Auto Parts. i got the kit for my 330 from them, no problems, except the timing chain they sent was for a chevy, not an olds.

Myride · 02-02-2003, 02:32 AM

not good

MOTHERTRUCKERS · 02-02-2003, 09:41 AM

Kind of a long drive but if interested I have a freshly machined 350 4 bolt main 010 nickle block bored 040 over and a new set of bare iron eagle heads here for 750.00. The block is ready to build and the machine work was done at ODDY PERFECTION in Sarasota before the IRS closed them down. I also have a 400 crank i'll throw in for it.

WORNBRAKES · 02-02-2003, 08:15 PM

Thanks for the coments and probable causes. When I drove the truck down here from WA, it tended to run hot at times. I figure running it at 4000 rpm for just over 3000 miles in the middle of summer was going to be bad but didn't figure it to be this bad. The block is a 69 327 and to the eye and hand, the cylinders seem to have only normal wear. I figured that the cylinders from these two pistons would be scared bad but they arn't. It has been bored 030 before, so I may have to take it out to 060. I havn't looked over the crank or the heads yet. I am hoping the crank only ntb polished. I know that the heads need work. They were smoking for about the last 1500 miles or so. I will check out Northern, and the others to see what I find. Mothertruckers, if my crank is bad or I find anything else wrong with the block when I get it cleaned, I may need your set up.

imdarren · 02-02-2003, 09:29 PM

I agree with MikeP684x4... Detination!
If anyone ever wonders what pinging does to a motor..... Now you know what it does / looks like.

Sorry.

Darren

Stroker · 02-02-2003, 10:07 PM

I would have to agree with mikep684x4 looks like a bad case of detonation damage. The extreme heat most likely butted the ring gap on the number 3 piston then the ring land gave way. Take a look at the ends of the ring gap and see if they are shiny indicating that they have butted together. Was the engine running decent in that condition? Good luck on your rebuild....Stroker

WORNBRAKES · 02-03-2003, 06:12 AM

To answer your question Stroker, the engine was running fine for the most part. I parked it because the blowby was real bad and I gunked up a few plugs on the #3. But it ran decent.

Blue68 · 02-03-2003, 12:55 PM

My initial impression is detonation as well. Except that the pistion right next door (left) is nice and clean. Another thought would be a blown head gasket letting in coolant. This (or detonation) could explain the running hot. It's difficult to tell since he's scraped the head gasket area already.

Regardless, it sucks to find things like this. Hopefully the cylinder walls are not too scarred to rebuild.

Good luck.

Stroker · 02-03-2003, 05:53 PM

It's amazing how much damage a Chevy engine can suffer and still be servicable.

02-01-2003, 08:10 PM	#1
WORNBRAKES Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Hughesville, MD Posts: 1,350	So, I was taking apart my engine and...... I discovered that my #4 piston was missing a chunck out of the top of it. Not only is a chunck missing but there is about 7 nicks or gouges on it. I was not exspecting to find this. I figured that I would have to redo the heads but had no idea that I would have to replace the pistons. I havent even checked all of the other internals, I just removed and took it apart today. The only thihg that I can figure to do this to a piston top is a dropped valve. The valves for #4 dont look any worse than the rest. This is so disapointing. I was wanting to do this rebuild for 1000 or less but it looks as if it may cost a few extra dillars. I measured my rod play prior to pulling them and found most within the .023 limit that my Haynes lists. My clearance on the #5 and #6 rods was .030+. I only have a phealer up to .030 I guess I will be replacing the rods also. As I was pulling the pistons out, I found that my #3 was broken on between the rings. The dam thing basicly fell into pieces when I pulled it out. Here are some pics of the #4 Attached Images __________________ Mario and Mandy Hughesville, MD 20637 69 C10 305/350 71 K5 Basket case 75 K10 Rescue Parting out 77 MG Midget Parting out 15 6.7L Cummins Last edited by WORNBRAKES; 02-01-2003 at 08:21 PM.

02-01-2003, 08:11 PM	#2
WORNBRAKES Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Hughesville, MD Posts: 1,350	another Attached Images __________________ Mario and Mandy Hughesville, MD 20637 69 C10 305/350 71 K5 Basket case 75 K10 Rescue Parting out 77 MG Midget Parting out 15 6.7L Cummins

02-01-2003, 10:30 PM	#7
Palf70Step State of Confusion! Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Gulfport, MS USA Posts: 46,761	Ouch. That hurts Mario. Sorry to hear the news. I had a 240Z in Japan that looked almost the same. Those are things that just mess up a good working dy on your truck! __________________ Bill 1970 Chevy Custom/10 LWB Fleetside 2010 Toyota Tacoma PreRunner SR5 Double Cab - DD Member of Louisiana Classic Truck Club (LCTC) Bill's Gallery Life isn't tied with a bow, but it's still a gift. Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God!

02-01-2003, 10:32 PM	#8
Palf70Step State of Confusion! Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Gulfport, MS USA Posts: 46,761	Oh yeah, I knew what caused mine. I sucked in water through the tailpipe and I guess the cold water just blew a whole in the piston and I thinkl a piece wdege/fubared my valve. I ended up having to trash that block. Hope yours is OK. __________________ Bill 1970 Chevy Custom/10 LWB Fleetside 2010 Toyota Tacoma PreRunner SR5 Double Cab - DD Member of Louisiana Classic Truck Club (LCTC) Bill's Gallery Life isn't tied with a bow, but it's still a gift. Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God!

02-01-2003, 10:49 PM	#10
bigjimzlll Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Redding,CA...USA Posts: 4,736	thats not good...hope you can save tthe block and crank..if so i would go with main studs and an align hone..new or rebuilt rods..its probably going to take a .030 over bore to clean up..good luck Jim __________________ It's called "drag racing" if they called it "tic..tic..WHAM!..BANG! F*&K!!!", they'd have to keep the magazines under the counter with the other men's publications click the clicky to join the site.... http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/payments.php 67 lwb..first hotrod in 25 years..540 best ET is 9.45 @ 141.44 Anderson,CA

02-01-2003, 08:12 PM	#3
WORNBRAKES Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Hughesville, MD Posts: 1,350	and another Attached Images __________________ Mario and Mandy Hughesville, MD 20637 69 C10 305/350 71 K5 Basket case 75 K10 Rescue Parting out 77 MG Midget Parting out 15 6.7L Cummins

02-01-2003, 08:14 PM	#4
WORNBRAKES Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Hughesville, MD Posts: 1,350	Here are some pics of the #3 Attached Images __________________ Mario and Mandy Hughesville, MD 20637 69 C10 305/350 71 K5 Basket case 75 K10 Rescue Parting out 77 MG Midget Parting out 15 6.7L Cummins

02-01-2003, 08:16 PM	#5
WORNBRAKES Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Hughesville, MD Posts: 1,350	last one. Who else has opened this can of worms before and what did you figure the cause? Attached Images __________________ Mario and Mandy Hughesville, MD 20637 69 C10 305/350 71 K5 Basket case 75 K10 Rescue Parting out 77 MG Midget Parting out 15 6.7L Cummins

02-01-2003, 10:30 PM	#6
68 Stepside huh? Join Date: May 2000 Location: Washington, Illinois Posts: 5,692	good lord man! that really sucks!!! ttt __________________ Someday when I'm lonely, Wishing you weren't so far away, Then I will remember Things we said today. RIP El Jay

02-01-2003, 10:39 PM	#9
racedvl Account Suspended Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Woodstock, IL Posts: 7,020	Bummer. . . .

02-01-2003, 11:53 PM	#11
mikep684x4 Seeker of the big and bad Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: wheatland,Calif,yuba Posts: 105	Detination is the demon you are looking at. More commonly known as "PINGING". Improper timing,poor fuel,to much compression and age are some of the major contributors. It creats a rattle in the piston that is very devistateing.Your ring glans are the norrowest part of the piston so it breaks first.I've even seen the skirts break off. The dents in the top of the piston were probley from the chunk bouncing between the head and piston till it broke up small enough to be blown out the exhaust. I'm not sure of the machine cost where you are but A 350 small block,bored .030 over,new cam bearing and freeze plugs,and the heads rebuilt run about $650. A motor kit for Summit racing with 9:73 compression and all the gaskets and bearings,new oil pump,and all the little things runs around $319 with free shipping.The only thing left is your choice of cam.You might still be able to get this thing fixed for around $1000-$1100.I wish you luck.Be sure to check the big companies(Jegs,Summit,P.A.W)be for you have you local guys order your parts.Hope this helps __________________ 71 3/4 ton 4x4,665hp 454. 67 GMC 1 ton towtruck 68 chevy LB 4x4 64 chevy LB custom 57 Bel-air 2d station wagon

02-02-2003, 12:16 AM	#12
greasemonkey Registered User Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Pace, FL Posts: 2,155	That sucks.. I sure wish I had the funds, equipment, and space to rebuild mine.. __________________ 1942 Master Deluxe 1969 C/10 1985 Blazer CUCV 1987 Jimmy 2004 Tahoe 2005 Silverado 1500 2005 Silverado 3500

02-02-2003, 01:30 AM	#13
Johns70 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Spring Creek, nevada. U.S.A. Posts: 456	wornbrakes check out northern auto parts they have master rebuild kits for 150 bucks and that includes pistons,cam,lifters,rings, all bearings,frost plugs,oil pump,timing chain,gaskets,any sizes and all name brand parts, trw,clevite,fel pro,sealed power. __________________ 69 chevy short wide box project 70 GMC jimmy project

02-02-2003, 02:15 AM	#14
O'l Buck Recovering Truck Driver Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Orleans, NE USA Posts: 1,883	hmmmm.....kinda reminds me of when I rebuilt my 330, all 8 pistons had cracked skirts and 4 had broken ring lands. I bought a 327 on an auction once that had a recent overhaul but was burning gallons of oil......pulled it apart to discover the idiot that put it together forgot to stagger the ring gaps. It shot fire down the sides of 2 pistons and scored the heck out of the cylinders......it was already bored .060, and would take at least .030 to get the cylinders trued up again. To the iron pile with it.............I agree, check Norther Auto Parts. i got the kit for my 330 from them, no problems, except the timing chain they sent was for a chevy, not an olds. __________________ 67 K-20 350, SM465, Eaton rear, 4.56 no spin option 00 Dodge 2500 4x4, 24V cummins, 5 speed Chad South Central Nebraska

02-02-2003, 02:32 AM	#15
Myride Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 292	not good



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02-02-2003, 09:41 AM	#16
MOTHERTRUCKERS Registered User Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: BRADENTON FLA Posts: 3,269	Kind of a long drive but if interested I have a freshly machined 350 4 bolt main 010 nickle block bored 040 over and a new set of bare iron eagle heads here for 750.00. The block is ready to build and the machine work was done at ODDY PERFECTION in Sarasota before the IRS closed them down. I also have a 400 crank i'll throw in for it. __________________ Rest in Peace Ed. Thanks for all the good times.

02-02-2003, 08:15 PM	#17
WORNBRAKES Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Hughesville, MD Posts: 1,350	Thanks for the coments and probable causes. When I drove the truck down here from WA, it tended to run hot at times. I figure running it at 4000 rpm for just over 3000 miles in the middle of summer was going to be bad but didn't figure it to be this bad. The block is a 69 327 and to the eye and hand, the cylinders seem to have only normal wear. I figured that the cylinders from these two pistons would be scared bad but they arn't. It has been bored 030 before, so I may have to take it out to 060. I havn't looked over the crank or the heads yet. I am hoping the crank only ntb polished. I know that the heads need work. They were smoking for about the last 1500 miles or so. I will check out Northern, and the others to see what I find. Mothertruckers, if my crank is bad or I find anything else wrong with the block when I get it cleaned, I may need your set up. __________________ Mario and Mandy Hughesville, MD 20637 69 C10 305/350 71 K5 Basket case 75 K10 Rescue Parting out 77 MG Midget Parting out 15 6.7L Cummins

02-02-2003, 09:29 PM	#18
imdarren Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: SW Washington Posts: 1,006	I agree with MikeP684x4... Detination! If anyone ever wonders what pinging does to a motor..... Now you know what it does / looks like. Sorry. Darren __________________ Washington State 1967 Chevy C10 LWB Rodstoration In Progress. 1972 K20 Cheyenne Super

02-02-2003, 10:07 PM	#19
Stroker Registered User Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Moore, Ok Posts: 1,149	I would have to agree with mikep684x4 looks like a bad case of detonation damage. The extreme heat most likely butted the ring gap on the number 3 piston then the ring land gave way. Take a look at the ends of the ring gap and see if they are shiny indicating that they have butted together. Was the engine running decent in that condition? Good luck on your rebuild....Stroker __________________ 72 SWB parts and pieces Oklahoma

02-03-2003, 06:12 AM	#20
WORNBRAKES Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Hughesville, MD Posts: 1,350	To answer your question Stroker, the engine was running fine for the most part. I parked it because the blowby was real bad and I gunked up a few plugs on the #3. But it ran decent. __________________ Mario and Mandy Hughesville, MD 20637 69 C10 305/350 71 K5 Basket case 75 K10 Rescue Parting out 77 MG Midget Parting out 15 6.7L Cummins

02-03-2003, 12:55 PM	#21
Blue68 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Frisco, Tx, USA Posts: 606	My initial impression is detonation as well. Except that the pistion right next door (left) is nice and clean. Another thought would be a blown head gasket letting in coolant. This (or detonation) could explain the running hot. It's difficult to tell since he's scraped the head gasket area already. Regardless, it sucks to find things like this. Hopefully the cylinder walls are not too scarred to rebuild. Good luck. __________________ http://home.comcast.net/~r.landrum/w...tos.html-.html '68 C-10 LWB, '98 Z-71 350 w/accessories (Serpentine), Edelbrock Performer, Edelbrock 1405 (600cfm) carb, GM HEI, CompCam Extreme 4x4 roller cam, Thorley Headers, Carter Electric Fuel Pump, Vintage Air, 700r4, 3.73, disc brakes and power steering upgrades.

02-03-2003, 05:53 PM	#22
Stroker Registered User Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Moore, Ok Posts: 1,149	It's amazing how much damage a Chevy engine can suffer and still be servicable. __________________ 72 SWB parts and pieces Oklahoma

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