Chump Change Challenge 350... What your opinion?

[SweetandLong68]

Was reading some older Super Chevy magazines on the throne and came across a 400hp 350 that the magazine did for like 1100 bucks! What are your guys opinions on this? I actually have a 88 IROC Camaro short block sitting here and I been thinking about doing a set of cheaper aluminum heads like the pro comps for my daily driver. Just wondering what you guys thought! If you have not read the article here is a link...

Super Chevy ARTICLE

lata
CHRIS

[Nova_Cobra64]

I never put much stock into any magazine articles like this. Most have "spare parts" that are ideal for the combination fall out of thin air and machine shop bills that total $0. If all of us were only so lucky, we'd all be drag racing on pocket change.

[MikeB]

Usually when magazines do budget builds, they start with lots of parts they "had lying around" or "traded for". Then they get their machine work done for free.

In any case, heads are where the power is, but ask around before you buy ProComp. They used to have some major issues with porous castings and final machining. Maybe you can find a pair of used GM Vortecs or name brand aluminum heads like Edelbrock Performer RPM or Brodix IK180/200, or even some Dart 180 or 200 Iron Eagles.

Of course cam selection depends on truck weight, gearing, transmission, and tire height, as well as engine compression ratio. But to get 400 real horses with a budget flat tappet cam, you will probably need something with around 230 degrees duration at .050" tappet lift. Summit and Jegs sell their house-brand cams for around $90 with lifters. That kind of duration will like to see at last 9.5:1 compression, and probably 10.0:1.

To top it off, a high rise dual plane manifold, like a Weiand Stealth or Edelbrock Performer RPM with a 600-650 cfm carb will do the trick. You should be able to find a used one on eBay for $75 max.

***Nova Cobra64 -- Just noticed your post. Great minds think alike!

[SweetandLong68]

Originally Posted by Nova_Cobra64

I never put much stock into any magazine articles like this. Most have "spare parts" that are ideal for the combination fall out of thin air and machine shop bills that total $0. If all of us were only so lucky, we'd all be drag racing on pocket change.

I know how magazines work.... But I was just talking about this article and this ENGINE in particular. Thinking of doing something similar to this for my truck....

lata
CHRIS

[Davetopay]

It all depends upon how resourceful you want to be. Ebay and the PAW catalog are your best friends. Look for a good used stroker kit on the web...nothing beats cubic inches. RHS does a decent head if you want new, but a good used set of AL heads can be found at swap meets and on CL for under 700.

I think the real key is to start with a quality core. This will save you some loot as far as machining goes. Check some clearances, give it a dingle ball hone job, wash it well, take your time checking everything as you assemble it, and you can build a motor on the cheap that will run well for YEARS.

Rebuild kit....150-200
RHS 200 heads....920-ish(assembled)
PAW cam with 244/244 .510/.510 108cl....77-ish
Comp high energy lifters .......75-ish
Edelbrock Performer RPM....155
Holley 770 Truck avenger carb...450
Rocker arms....250

allow 200 for chemicals, supplies, and incidentals. That puts us close to 2400 bucks if you buy all that stuff new at PAW. I be VERY surprised if that set up doesn't make around 400, maybe more. It won't be a daily driver with that cam, but it will haul the mail. I didn't allow for pushrods as they need to be fitted to each combo individually....so figure that is as well.

[hotrodhomi]

I just ordered this for less than 3k.

[SweetandLong68]

Originally Posted by MikeB

Usually when magazines do budget builds, they start with lots of parts they "had lying around" or "traded for". Then they get their machine work done for free.

Totally understand this.... Magazines dont always tell the whole story...That is understood.

In any case, heads are where the power is, but ask around before you buy ProComp. They used to have some major issues with porous castings and final machining. Maybe you can find a pair of used GM Vortecs or name brand aluminum heads like Edelbrock Performer RPM or Brodix IK180/200, or even some Dart 180 or 200 Iron Eagles.

I hear you here as well. And yes I have heard lots of ups and downs with Pro Comp and the casting issues and machining...But unfortunately I have seen crappy castings from Edelbrock as well.... We went through 4 Edelbrock intake manifolds before junking them all and going to a Dart intake that was twice as much just to get a manifold that looked its place on a 600 inch BBC in my buddies 70 Camaro. But all that aside I am VERY leary of buying used heads of anykind aluminum or steel unless I can get my hands on them and check the decks for straight...Because just like everything else you do not know where the came from...Overheated drag motor or a motor that someone overheaded and just wants to go with a smaller head...You never know....

Of course cam selection depends on truck weight, gearing, transmission, and tire height, as well as engine compression ratio. But to get 400 real horses with a budget flat tappet cam, you will probably need something with around 230 degrees duration at .050" tappet lift. Summit and Jegs sell their house-brand cams for around $90 with lifters. That kind of duration will like to see at last 9.5:1 compression, and probably 10.0:1.

To top it off, a high rise dual plane manifold, like a Weiand Stealth or Edelbrock Performer RPM with a 600-650 cfm carb will do the trick. You should be able to find a used one on eBay for $75 max.

I also hear what you are saying here and you make alot of good points but these days I would never build a flat tappet cammed motor ever again. I have seen too many cams go flat and lifters go to crap because they are all chinese junk. All roller cams for me either hydraulic roller or solid. A little more money here will save a ton later IMO... 9.3:1 compression sounds about just right to me for a daily driver motor that will run easily on pump gas and not have to worry about anything.

I am definetly going with a dual plane intake... Would love to have a Edelbrock Air Gap or even a Weiand Stealth. Both good intakes. Time will tell and I think I already have a Edelbrock Performer RPM sitting around somewhere.... hehehe

Sorry for being long winded!

lata
CHRIS

[SweetandLong68]

Originally Posted by hotrodhomi

I just ordered this for less than 3k.

You talking about this one???? Not bad for the money really... I already have a decent short block so I wont be going this route.... And I rather build than buy anyday....Just who I am

lata
CHRIS


Engine Specifications:
* Horsepower: 400+
* Torque: 400+ ft/lbs
* Compression ratio: 9.5:1
* Dyno-tested: Yes, includes balancer and 14" flexplate
* Dyno sheet: Included with engine's output
* Vacuum produced: 12hg @ 800RPM
* Recommended fuel: 92 octane
* Max recommended RPM- 6000
* Block: Seasoned 4-bolt iron
* Crankshaft: Nodular iron
* Pistons: Hypereutectic
* Connecting rods: Powdered metal
* Camshaft- Hydraulic roller
* Valve lift:.520"
* Duration @ .050" (int/exh): 218deg/228deg
* Rocker arms: Stamped steel 1.6:1 ratio
* Cylinder heads: Ported Vortec
* Valves: Stainless steel 2.02 int/1.60 exh
* Valve springs: Heavy duty
* Bore x Stroke: 4.030" x 3.48"
* Intake manifold: Dual-plane aluminum
* Oil pan, timing cover, valve covers included
* Engine fasteners: High tensile strength
* Warranty: 12 mth/12,000 mi
Part # Description Price Add to Cart
CT350PC1 Year One Power Crate 400hp 350 crate engine assembly. $2989.00

*This product is discount exempt.
*This product is shipped truck freight.
Features a 4-bolt main 350 block bored 0.030 over. It produces 12hg inches of vacuum at 800RPM--perfect for power brakes. Each engine is balanced and blueprinted and comes with a 12mth/12,000 mi warranty. It is dyno-tested and supplied with printout of your engine's results.

[SweetandLong68]

Originally Posted by Davetopay

It all depends upon how resourceful you want to be. Ebay and the PAW catalog are your best friends. Look for a good used stroker kit on the web...nothing beats cubic inches. RHS does a decent head if you want new, but a good used set of AL heads can be found at swap meets and on CL for under 700.

I think the real key is to start with a quality core. This will save you some loot as far as machining goes. Check some clearances, give it a dingle ball hone job, wash it well, take your time checking everything as you assemble it, and you can build a motor on the cheap that will run well for YEARS.

Rebuild kit....150-200
RHS 200 heads....920-ish(assembled)
PAW cam with 244/244 .510/.510 108cl....77-ish
Comp high energy lifters .......75-ish
Edelbrock Performer RPM....155
Holley 770 Truck avenger carb...450
Rocker arms....250

allow 200 for chemicals, supplies, and incidentals. That puts us close to 2400 bucks if you buy all that stuff new at PAW. I be VERY surprised if that set up doesn't make around 400, maybe more. It won't be a daily driver with that cam, but it will haul the mail. I didn't allow for pushrods as they need to be fitted to each combo individually....so figure that is as well.

Heheh Not much daily driver going on there with that cam. But I understand what you are trying to get at. I already have alot of parts and I am planning on using them to save the cash...And putting it together myself with the help of my good buddies! Got to have buddy help right?!? Any other way?

BTW....If I was going to go non daily driver motor I already have a solid 450hp 383 in my Malibu that is coming out soon....but I want something a little more tame and with roller cam! But it took my 79 Malibu street car for 7.20s in the 1/8th! Pretty stout! Anyone wanna buy it and my turbo 350??? haha I am building a hi-helix 6-71 blown 496BBC for the BU!

lata
CHRIS

[Davetopay]

I am assuming that this would be a truck motor.....

Here's a good one for ya!

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...ild/index.html

408 inch stroker from a junkyard 350...all twist no scream...it'll pull the earth off its axis.

[Bpokey]

I read that article also and I am interested in a combo like this. The way I look at it is not everyone needs a set of $1200 edelbrock heads and if you already have the shortblock you are already ahead of the game. I think it will cost a bit more than the $1100 but shouldn't be that much more, especially if you have some parts laying around like they do. I already have a 4 bolt main 350 from 1970 with 041X heads on it but I have thought about selling these heads and putting the money towards a cheaper set of new heads maybe Patriot, or Procomp. I may be the only one but I say go for it, but then again I am one cheap bastard.

[SweetandLong68]

Originally Posted by Davetopay

I am assuming that this would be a truck motor.....

Here's a good one for ya!

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...ild/index.html

408 inch stroker from a junkyard 350...all twist no scream...it'll pull the earth off its axis.

Quick scan of the article.... I see 3 grand...stock iron heads.....and a block short filled with hard block....circle track cam...

Not for me I say Dont need to do all that to have a sweet little motor.

"The Potential Downside
When you add Hard Blok to short-fill the water jacket, you get controversy. Jack McInnis from Dart Machinery says it will overheat, Ted Toki from Westside says it won't."

lata
CHRIS

[Davetopay]

Originally Posted by SweetandLong68

Quick scan of the article.... I see 3 grand...stock iron heads.....and a block short filled with hard block....circle track cam...

Not for me I say Dont need to do all that to have a sweet little motor.

"The Potential Downside
When you add Hard Blok to short-fill the water jacket, you get controversy. Jack McInnis from Dart Machinery says it will overheat, Ted Toki from Westside says it won't."

lata
CHRIS

I forgot it was hard-blocked.....but still, it is a neat motor. I also wasn't worried about the total cost either.

[SweetandLong68]

Originally Posted by Davetopay

I forgot it was hard-blocked.....but still, it is a neat motor. I also wasn't worried about the total cost either.

Pretty neat motor yeah! But aint no stock heads going on any motor I build unless it is a BBC! Especially at the 3 grand mark money wise! GHEEZ!

lata
CHRIS