Under Dash Brake Systems

[rahatawa]

Looking at other cars and hot rods etc I have seen master cylinders and boosters other places than on the firewall. I know the early trucks had under dash heaters so....

Is it possible/has anyone/how big a dream is this...

Can you put the mc and booster for a brake system under our dashes (a 90 degree system)? Just thinking it might really clean up the right side of the firewall like delete plates do for the left. All opinions, advice, and head shaking are welcome

[markeb01]

Here's an earlier thread you may find interesting:

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=dash+cylinder

And here's a link to one manufacturer that produces under dash systems:

http://www.kugelkomponents.com/produ..._reverse90.php

Personally, the only real disappointment I have with my 1960 GMC is I installed the Ron Francis fuse panel in the conventional location to the left of the clutch pedal. I'm old now with back and knee problems, and it's an exercise in torture if I want to work in that area. I wish I had put it behind the glovebox with a trap door so I could work on it comfortably sitting in the passenger seat.

Regarding the under dash master cylinder -unless there is some means to remove the top of the dashboard for access, I think it's going to be a miserable experience trying to bleed the brakes, or check the fluid level. That and the risk of ruining the carpet during brake maintenance or should a leak develop. If I wanted a clean firewall, I'd be more inclined to go with an under floor design like commonly used on earlier vehicles.

[rahatawa]

So looking at the Kugel, eci, and scott's set ups there seem to be a few things that come to mind.

1. Deleting the windshield wipers. Not a huge problem for me. Between rain-ex and this not being daily driven it should not be an issue.

2. Clutch. If switching to this type system dies it make sense to go ahead and do both pedals at the same time?

3. Resevoir. With zero experience and this being down the road planning I can ask new guy questions. I agree having to bleed brakes under the dash seems like a real big pain. Do these remote reservoirs remove that nessecity?

[markeb01]

Originally Posted by rahatawa

So looking at the Kugel, eci, and scott's set ups there seem to be a few things that come to mind.

I agree having to bleed brakes under the dash seems like a real big pain. Do these remote reservoirs remove that nessecity?

I have no first had experience with under dash master cylinder systems, but since the master cylinder is gravity fed from the reservoir, I believe it must be mounted above the master cylinder, providing no real labor savings benefit. I have not been able to confirm this online. If you have a preferred design, I'd suggest contacting the manufacturer and confirming if a lower reservoir mounting (for easier access) will work with their system.

[Scottshotrods]

The res has to be mounted above the master and the factory wiper motor will have to be removed.You can run a spw wiper motor kit it will work with our under the dash pedal.
You do not need to run a remote res you can always fill from the bottom a little pain
to do.I will be running ou set up in our 65 burb build we are doing.Keep in mind the main
difference with our under the dash pedal than others we use bronze bushings not plastic
like others and our under the dash is 100% tig welded not mig welded.We do have in stock and can ship out same day.
Justin
www.scottshotrods.com

[markeb01]

Originally Posted by Scottshotrods

The res has to be mounted above the master and the factory wiper motor will have to be removed.

Thanks for the clarification.

[jocko]

I'm glad someone asked this question! I was wondering about a similar set-up, but not for the purpose of slicking off the firewall - plan was hoping to do a disk brake set-up yet keep the old stock master cylinder on the firewall (not connected to anything). Hmmm. Lotta work to keep a stock look yet have disk brake stopping perf.

[Rich 5150 69]

You could run disc without a power booster,,,just a thought.

[Scottshotrods]

On my 65 burb I will be running a wilwood manaul master non power and my brakes are
14 inch front and rear 6 piston caliper and 4 piston rear.I am still running a spw wiper motor kit on my burb.
Justin
www.scottshotrods.com

[rahatawa]

Justin- I will keep an eye on the burb (as if i wasn't already). The pain of filling the master cylinder and clutch from underneath, if you mounted the reservoir higher and in a more accessible spot would that fix the problem? You have obviously done this more than once and just curious if you think the trouble of having to fill it from the bottom is such a pain as to make it not worth it.

[Scottshotrods]

Originally Posted by rahatawa

Justin- I will keep an eye on the burb (as if i wasn't already). The pain of filling the master cylinder and clutch from underneath, if you mounted the reservoir higher and in a more accessible spot would that fix the problem? You have obviously done this more than once and just curious if you think the trouble of having to fill it from the bottom is such a pain as to make it not worth it.

Need to ask your self how often are you filling up your master now?I feel
you can fill from the bottom you will have to be careful.Our remote res is a
option to make it easier for you to fill and check.
Justin
www.scottshotrods.com

[ERBSIX]

Originally Posted by Rich 5150 69

You could run disc without a power booster

So, if you convert the rear to disc brakes, and the fronts are already disc, do you no longer need the power booster?

Is there an under dash kit for this type of application?

[Scottshotrods]

Originally Posted by ERBSIX

So, if you convert the rear to disc brakes, and the fronts are already disc, do you no longer need the power booster?

Is there an under dash kit for this type of application?

Yes there is and we have in stock and can ship out SAME DAY.
Justin
www.scottshotrods.com
justin@scottshotrods.com

[ERBSIX]

Originally Posted by Scottshotrods

Yes there is and we have in stock and can ship out SAME DAY.

Do you have a link you can share?

[jephs422]

Originally Posted by ERBSIX

Do you have a link you can share?

Scott's Under Dash Assembly

[ERBSIX]

I've seen that one. However, it's the same if you have front AND rear disc brakes?

[Scottshotrods]

Originally Posted by ERBSIX

I've seen that one. However, it's the same if you have front AND rear disc brakes?

The bracket is the same our pedal ratio is differnt for manual verse power.
Justin
www.scottshotrods.com

[ERBSIX]

Gotcha. So the assembly is still required.

Thank you.

[markeb01]

Hydraulic drums brakes over the last 50 years or so have been self-energizing, meaning the rotation of the brake drum increases the application pressure of the brake shoes.

Disc brakes by their design are not self-energizing. Everything being equal, a 4 wheel disc brake vehicle will benefit even more from a power booster than a comparable disc/drum setup.

[coolair]

One word of caution -If you plan on adding aftermarket AC - if you use regular brake fluid, just the fluid fumes under the dash will kill the ABS plastic that is used on most evaporators. After awhile the plastic will just start cracking and falling apart in peices. The use of silicone brake fluid dosn't seem to effect the plastic so make sure it is used.

Also, some AC evaporators go from the right side under the dash to all the way over the trans tunnel so make sure you have room to package everything behind the dash with the 90 degree MC bracket.