Attention Suspension Companies!

[basemodel67]

Why doesn't someone make a spindle for older trucks that uses a newer style truck unit bearing??? If they could make it so it would use the newer truck brakes or aftermarket brake upgrades, that would be awesome. There are a lot more brake options for new trucks than old 6-lug trucks. Just wondering...

[blime81]

I'm not sure, but I think you may be after something like the CCP modular spindals. They have changable plates that act as caliper mounts and you can use the 73 + ball joints and so on.

they are talking about using 73 + centerlinks and so on here.
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=412093

[87chevy.com]

I know exactly how you feel. I went as far as designing my own spindle in autocad (total rough draft, but in 3d with general proportions), getting quotes on prototyping it in plastic and then having it made into a cast iron product. Never went anywhere because of the $$ in destructive testing.
clint

McGaughs front brake kit could be better if they designed the spindle to accept the brakes instead of must modifiying what they had already "to fit". It would be killer if they designed it so the mounting points are beefy like CPP spindles, but uses factory rotors, turned down into hubs and kept the stock track width once you add the rotor. But they would have to redesign their mold and thats money.

this is for the 1st-2nd gen camaros.. lucky people



:gurr:

[DKN]

GM started using the new style bearing, hub, ABS sensor assembly for 2wd trucks in 1999. They had many internal revesions for the first several years. The 4wd hub units worked better because they had the CV flange bolted thru the center. I have seen instances where the new style hub has come completly apart causing big $$$ repairs. I have never seen the old hub/rotor style come apart.

These assemblies will cost you alot more money. The kits would require larger wheels (no new 1/2 tons use 15" wheels). They only come in 6-lug. You will need to run a much larger back spacing causing miss-matched wheel offsets front to rear.

CPP makes Forged Aluminum Hubs in every bolt patern Chevy, Ford, MOPAR, car and truck. CPP has complete 13" brake kits for less $ than anyone else I have seen. Willwood and other brake companies already make kits to work with the CPP spindles.

Danny Nix
CPP

[basemodel67]

I agree with a lot of what you are saying dkn, but there is also a reason why all the OEM's are going with the new style hub. The reason, primarily, I would like this style hub is because of the wheel options it would open up. A lot of new style wheels aren't designed for older vehicles with an extended hub and dust cap. The spindle that 87chevy posted a picture of is what many of the g-machine style cars are running that use a Vette hub... last time I checked they are still VERY popular. And, besides, who runs a 15" wheel anymore?

As far as the new truck hubs all being 6-lug, I think I remember when CPP first released the 6-lug disc coversions for 63-70 trucks that was their most popular product.

Time to get these trucks out of the stone age! 1998 called, it wants it's old spindle through hub technology back.

[Shane]

funny ... most folks want to get away from 6 lug patterns due to LACK of wheel choices. <shrug>

[basemodel67]

Well, at least there are a lot more 6-lug wheel options now than there were before all the new Chevy trucks went to 6-lug.

[87chevy.com]

plus the sealed bearing units seem way more efficient in rolling resistance.. with an BMW M5 (or any other BMW) on the lift, I can give the wheel a good spin and that sucker will stay spinning for a solid minute.. try that with a hub/rotor assembly. The wheel options open up too...
clint

[djw32]

Originally Posted by 87chevy.com

I know exactly how you feel. I went as far as designing my own spindle in autocad (total rough draft, but in 3d with general proportions), getting quotes on prototyping it in plastic and then having it made into a cast iron product. Never went anywhere because of the $$ in destructive testing.
clint

McGaughs front brake kit could be better if they designed the spindle to accept the brakes instead of must modifiying what they had already "to fit". It would be killer if they designed it so the mounting points are beefy like CPP spindles, but uses factory rotors, turned down into hubs and kept the stock track width once you add the rotor. But they would have to redesign their mold and thats money.

this is for the 1st-2nd gen camaros.. lucky people



:gurr:

Just so you know, those spindles are made my ats. They company is now owned by speed tech.

[Musclerodz]

If you think truck owners will pay $1100 for a set of spindles, then someone may eventually step up. That is what those ATS units currently cost. They are sick, have 2 sets in the shop

[basemodel67]

They don't have to be aluminum. Just make 'em like regular spindles.

Get the price competitive and people will buy.

[Shane]

what material they are made from has very little to do with the costs.

[87chevy.com]

I dont think the billit aluminum is around 2$ a lb. Although you can recycle the shavings... If i recall correctly it was around 2 bucks a pound of cast iron when I asked for a quote on a 40lb spindle. Autocad gave an estimated weight of the spindle and I added a little extra just incase. 1000 is hella lot of money, but if it were a cast iron piece, the price would be cheaper but still expensive. Plus the cost of the sealed hub.. it wouldnt be the cheap mod of the year but it would be one solid upgrade over the current aftermarket. But people dont associate expensive expensive mods with trucks like ours (in most cases)..

[Musclerodz]

Originally Posted by 87chevy.com

I dont think the billit aluminum is around 2$ a lb. Although you can recycle the shavings... If i recall correctly it was around 2 bucks a pound of cast iron when I asked for a quote on a 40lb spindle. Autocad gave an estimated weight of the spindle and I added a little extra just incase. 1000 is hella lot of money, but if it were a cast iron piece, the price would be cheaper but still expensive. Plus the cost of the sealed hub.. it wouldnt be the cheap mod of the year but it would be one solid upgrade over the current aftermarket. But people dont associate expensive expensive mods with trucks like ours (in most cases)..

as stated before, it is not the cost of the material, it is the cost of the engineering and forging dies. I personally know the previous owner of ATS who developed these spindles, and he had several hundred thousand dollars tied up in engineering and R&D before the first batch of spindles were ever made. Not only that, the hubs have to be bought by the pallet load.

[87chevy.com]

I can imagine them spending a lot of money on the R&D... they were trying to engeneer the absolute best spindle that had the best geometry possible. It shows too!

[cajundragger]

It'd only be smart to make the spindle out of cast iron if there would be high production numbers.

the demand for this style spindle is not very high, so a simpler, more cost effective approach would be to make flat plate spindle, such as these...

http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/...19-400-Fab.jpg

I realize that is an offroad spindle, but its the concept. Fabbed spindles are relativly cheap to produce. Esp. compared to casting spindles.

also, the hub on say a 99-06 chevy truck can be redrilled to 5 lug, so who says it HAS to be 6 lug?

[DKN]

Originally Posted by basemodel67

I agree with a lot of what you are saying dkn, but there is also a reason why all the OEM's are going with the new style hub. The reason, primarily, I would like this style hub is because of the wheel options it would open up. A lot of new style wheels aren't designed for older vehicles with an extended hub and dust cap. The spindle that 87chevy posted a picture of is what many of the g-machine style cars are running that use a Vette hub... last time I checked they are still VERY popular. And, besides, who runs a 15" wheel anymore?

As far as the new truck hubs all being 6-lug, I think I remember when CPP first released the 6-lug disc coversions for 63-70 trucks that was their most popular product.

Time to get these trucks out of the stone age! 1998 called, it wants it's old spindle through hub technology back.

The OEM switched to this so the 2wd and 4wd can use the same control arm, spindle, spring, shock, etc. These are heavier units with less load capacity. These require the wheels to have a lot more back spacing. They work really good when used with a half shaft. Most cars today are front wheel drive and need this type of hub assembly. The few rear drive cars usually use an indepedant rear suspension that has a half shaft and needs to use this type of hub.

This type of hub can work but there is no clear advantage to using it.

Danny Nix
CPP

[Shane]

heavier means more unsprung which is actually a distinct disadvantage ... ... 1 pound of unsprung weight equates approx. to 10 pounds of sprung weight.

not good when one is trying to get a vehicle to handle better

[87chevy.com]

Originally Posted by cajundragger

also, the hub on say a 99-06 chevy truck can be redrilled to 5 lug, so who says it HAS to be 6 lug?

Well the downside to using a 99-06 hub and converting it to 5 lug (although its been done before by GMracer) is the hub flange has to be welded (one or 2 stud holes) and then re drilled... un-necessary work.

I even snagged a set of spindles off of a 99-06 style truck and see what it would take to get them to fit... still got them in the garage and havent really looked into it. One main difference is the ball joint on the bottom is pointing downwards v/s ours pointing upwards..
clint

[basemodel67]

I might try to get a set of the newer spindles and see what it would take to use them. My nephew worked for a suspension company fabbing a-arms and struts for BMW racecars so I think between the two of us we can make it work somehow. Don't worry, when we get working on it I will take lots of pics for you picturephiles. I think what I am really after is the ability to run the kind of rims that don't have a bump out for the end of the spindle. I know, that is the most retarded thing you've ever heard, but once I start thinking about something I kind of become obsessed with finding out how to make it work.

[DKN]

Why not use a wheel spacer? It will move the wheel out just like the late model hub assembly and then you can use a flat wheel.

Years ago for a SEMA Show truck I used a stock 1999 spindle, welded the lower ball joint taper solid, and tapered the spindle for the 67-72 lower ball joint. This will lower the truck about 3". I also used CPP tubular control arms. It was a long time ago, but I think I rember the rotor would hit the original lower arm. This truck was on air bags, and used CPP tubular upper arms. The upper arms are longer and make the truck alighn more easily.

Danny Nix
CPP

[87chevy.com]

are you talking about a 99 OBS or NBS spindle? do you have any pictures?

[DKN]

Originally Posted by 87chevy.com

are you talking about a 99 OBS or NBS spindle? do you have any pictures?

99 and newer 1/2 ton spindles. I know Chevrolet changed slightly around 2007, but they are almost identical. I have GM's 3D cad models and interchanging one for the other will make only a very very very small difference. The current spindle is slightly taller, but this makes almost no change in the alignment.

Danny Nix
CPP

[basemodel67]

Hey DKN - don't hold out on us, we need pics!

How exactly does the rotor hit the lower arm? Share the wealth of knowledge with this setup.... I'm interested

[DKN]

I do not have any pics, sorry.

The rotor ends up about 3/8" away from the edge of the lower ball joint. The arm is wider and the rotor will hit the portion of the arm that is around the ball joint. The lower taper will need to be welded closed. Then taper from the opposite side in a slightly different location to maintain the camber.

Danny Nix
CPP