installing step notch (i need some pointers)

[laid_out_70]

thinking of doing it myself and would love some input and pointers. i plan on using my 110v welder, says it good to 1/4" with flux core so ill just have to do short beads. im assuming it will get hot quick. would like to know the order i would go with instaling which plate first and how to center it over the axle or if i should get a porterbuilt notch tacked together already. i know to use levels and what not.

[texastrendz]

i would do some test runs on that before you try it. i had a 110 machine early on and i would not fill comfortable with it on a something like this. i fill you would not have enough amps to correctly penetrate the material. that being said. remove springs, jack axle to frame, mark center line on frame. mark center line of notch and use a plumb bob to align both and tack it in on one side only. then use straight edges and levels to align one side to the next. measure, measure, measure, measure,.... get my point. make sure you start with your truck frame level front to back and side to side before you start. this is a quick overview since a million threads exist on this....

[b&a72]

I have a Hobart 110 and did mine and got plenty of penetration, it too does up to a 1/4 inch. I cranked it up to level four and about 35 for wire speed and let it rip.

[laid_out_70]

thanks alot, if you come across the treads throw me some links.

Originally Posted by texastrendz

i would do some test runs on that before you try it. i had a 110 machine early on and i would not fill comfortable with it on a something like this. i fill you would not have enough amps to correctly penetrate the material. that being said. remove springs, jack axle to frame, mark center line on frame. mark center line of notch and use a plumb bob to align both and tack it in on one side only. then use straight edges and levels to align one side to the next. measure, measure, measure, measure,.... get my point. make sure you start with your truck frame level front to back and side to side before you start. this is a quick overview since a million threads exist on this....

thanks man, gives me some confidance.

Originally Posted by b&a72

I have a Hobart 110 and did mine and got plenty of penetration, it too does up to a 1/4 inch. I cranked it up to level four and about 35 for wire speed and let it rip.

[texastrendz]

i would really try a couple of test pieces before you weld your truck frame. search this forum and you will find all the threads, videos, and pics.
i am not trying to offend anyone at anytime but if you told me you welded your truck frame with a 110v welder with flux core wire i would not get in it.
i am not a professional welder, but i know a professional welder would not do it with a 110 machine.

[70jnktrk]

Originally Posted by texastrendz

i would really try a couple of test pieces before you weld your truck frame. Search this forum and you will find all the threads, videos, and pics.
I am not trying to offend anyone at anytime but if you told me you welded your truck frame with a 110v welder with flux core wire i would not get in it.
I am not a professional welder, but i know a professional welder would not do it with a 110 machine.

x2

[laid_out_70]

alright man, ill play with some 3/16 plate. and it doesnt have to be the strongest because the frame wont be supporting anything at or past the notch. and fyi flux core burns hotter then with gas.

Originally Posted by texastrendz

i would really try a couple of test pieces before you weld your truck frame. search this forum and you will find all the threads, videos, and pics.
i am not trying to offend anyone at anytime but if you told me you welded your truck frame with a 110v welder with flux core wire i would not get in it.
i am not a professional welder, but i know a professional welder would not do it with a 110 machine.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by laid_out_70

alright man, ill play with some 3/16 plate. and it doesnt have to be the strongest because the frame wont be supporting anything at or past the notch. and fyi flux core burns hotter then with gas.

That is not the best way to approach building a vehicle.

It needs to be as strong or stronger than original. Do you weld for a living (or did you @ one time and/or were certified)? I'm not saying it can't be done w/a 110 machine..... I would just make sure everything is perfect & that my design approach was overkill to start with.

I'm curious to see how the pro's will weigh in on using the 110 to get it done.

[blime81]

I am about to notch my truck as well. I also have a 110 machine. While I know the specs on the machine say you can weld metal that thick using flux core I personally won't be using the 110 to do my notch.

If you must use the 110 practice practice practice first. Grind a shallow v into the gaps to help with penetration and go slow letting the welder cool down every so often. Many of the little 110 units don't have much for a duty cycle.

[laid_out_70]

i will be contacting nate and seeing what what he thinks i should do. also i was following a guys build that he z'ed his frame and everything with his 110v machine. he said he just heats up the frame before he welds, im thinking that may be the direction i go. if that cant happen ill end up just getting a bolt on notch.

[blime81]

Preheat is good.

But check your local shops too, might not be to pricey if you pulled the bed and tacked the thing up and then have them run the beads on it.

[laid_out_70]

fosho. just ran into a possibly horrible problem. i think i have a c20. woohoo for my ignorance!

[b&a72]

Originally Posted by texastrendz

i would really try a couple of test pieces before you weld your truck frame. search this forum and you will find all the threads, videos, and pics.
i am not trying to offend anyone at anytime but if you told me you welded your truck frame with a 110v welder with flux core wire i would not get in it.
i am not a professional welder, but i know a professional welder would not do it with a 110 machine.

Missed the part about being flux core wire, Up to 3/16 inch is no problem for my Hobart as long as the area being welded isn't too large. But there is a duty cyle of around 20% so you have about a 2 minute weld time and then have to let the machine cool. I use gas so can't comment on the flux core, from what i understand it is a hollow cored wire and not solid like standard MIG wire.

[WellBilt Kustoms]

I do ALOT of metal fabrication/chassis work at my shop. Both MIG and TIG welding. Personally, I wouldn't weld up a notch into my frame with a 110v machine.

Also, are you going to be putting the bag mounts onto the notch, or onto a bridge in between the notches? If so, it will need to be strong, to carry the weight of the truck.

Like others have said, you might be best off getting the notch all setup, tacked in place, have the bed off, and have a welder burn it in for you. It probably won't cost too much. Or, see if there are any board members close to you with a 220V machine that can help out for a little cash on the side.

Just my opinion. But if you lay out some test pieces, and do a few passes on them, and it looks like your getting good penetration between the two, go for it. But definately test it first.

[M5-]

Greetings
I've just recently joined the forum (65 Chev C10 Shortbox Stepper) and have been reading a ton of late but as yet no posts but this is a topic I can comment on. I do ALOT of welding and I guess a question that should be asked is what welder are you using as all 110 welders are not created equal. I'm a Miller guy and have both their small 140 and a larger 220 machine. If it were me I would reach for the 220 machine for sure but if I only had the 110 I'd probably still do it. I never weld with flux core as its just too messy for my liking. I always weld with C25 on mild steel. If you are going to weld it with the 110 use the largest diameter wire your machine will push, probably 0.035". Like was mentioned before vee out the weld and multipass it in order to get the weld strength. You can weld 1/8th" all day with a good 110 welder single pass but anything thicker it depends on your machine. You will get better penetration by pushing the bead when you weld it but it may or may not look as pretty depending on your experience level. Again as was mention get some steel of the thickness you want to weld and practice some multipass beads. If possible weld the piece from both sides, if you do this vee it from both sides as well. Another thing to consider is investing in the gas setup for your welder if it is a good quality welder it'd be worth it IMO if you don't already have it, cause once you have it you'll never go back. JMO.

Thats the nice thing about steel if it doesn't look good grind it out and do it differently.

Good luck with your project and post some progress pics.
M5

[kev2809]

i think i would tack it place and take it to a good welder to have it finished like a few people mention. i been doing every piece of sheetmetal replacement on my suburban but i wouldnt touch my notch lol. i bought the prewelded notch from nate, and took it to a shop and let him weld in it for me, 185 for the notch, bridge, and shock tabs. of course it would have been more if it wasnt already welded together. later this year or begginging of next i plan to buy a better welder, probably a small gas hobart to practice welding so i can do my front z and rear 4 link.

[Rollie396]

another thing to consider is that the vertical welds will have to be done uphand.Flux core doesn't work downhand.The good news there is that you will be putting more heat into the steel as you go which will help with penetration.The bad news is that uphand is a bit tricky with fluxcore so lots of practise would be a advised.I think that,given the choice I would do as others have mentioned and get it all set up and have someone weld it up with a bigger machine.I don't suppose you know any rig welders?If you could find someone with a truck they could just come over to your place,string out and weld it up right there for you.Tell them to bring a sleeve of 3/32" 7018 and they should have it welded up in no more than 2 hrs.Just another idea.

[laid_out_70]

wow, havent checked this this thread in awhile. its a lincoln 2500hd. i met a local guy that has alot of experience and talent building trucks. today we cupped the lca's with 1/4" pipe. gave my welder a try and it penetrated just fine. the lca had color change over 1/2" wide and the pipe had color change on the other side. and the guy is amazed how fast im catching on with welding. thanks guys for the input

[ShowSS12]

I am another guy who dose chassis/metal fabrication and I would do like the others have said practice to see if your 110 could do the pass... I also hear if u use pure argon for shielding gas it helps make the weld hotter, but i don't know if it will be hotter than the flux... Personally I use my millermatic 175 .30 wire & 75/25 gas for all the chassis /suspension work i do

[lofly'a]

a 110v will do it if it has the proper amperage. you can get up to a 140 amp 110 unit, and i have seen a few "inexpensive models" that would barely make a good spark. i have a miller 350P (big daddy of wirefeeds), and a lincoln 140 (fabulous little box). have done coupons of 1/4" with both welders and the lincoln penetrated just as well and both passed all tests when set according to the metal being worked.

[dv8customs]

Originally Posted by texastrendz

i would really try a couple of test pieces before you weld your truck frame. search this forum and you will find all the threads, videos, and pics.
i am not trying to offend anyone at anytime but if you told me you welded your truck frame with a 110v welder with flux core wire i would not get in it.
i am not a professional welder, but i know a professional welder would not do it with a 110 machine.

So this means you won't go on a ride along with me when I get mine finished

I have done all my work with my Lincoln SP125+. What welder you use will depend on your skill level as a welder. I have had no problems out of mine but your results may vary...

[texastrendz]

once again, not trying to offend anyone at anytime. i pick up a mig welder gun almost everyday. i have a 110v machine and a 220v machine keep in mind. you bring me your truck to step notch it, i pick up the 110v mig gun, what would you say? i know what i would say. lol.

[texastrendz]

you can always go back to the basic rule of thumb: for every .001 of metal thickness it requires 1 amp. 1/8 metal thickness= .125 so you need close to 125 amps. i have found this formula to run a little hot, but it will get you close.

[lofly'a]

Originally Posted by texastrendz

once again, not trying to offend anyone at anytime. i pick up a mig welder gun almost everyday. i have a 110v machine and a 220v machine keep in mind. you bring me your truck to step notch it, i pick up the 110v mig gun, what would you say? i know what i would say. lol.

i can understand your point Trendz, but look at the argument on what a pro would have in their shop. they will likely have better equipment that costs waaaay more than the DIY'er will justify spending in most cases. i started with a stick, graduated to a crappy 110v wirefeed, sold it and got a better 110v wirefeed, and now i have a really good machine that'll do all. i did keep my lincoln 140 for work outside my shop. i can load up my genset and weld anywhere.....that i like about my lincoln that i can't do with my big miller. the lincoln 110v 140 amp is limited but it will do the job "in most cases".