hot start issues

[primrrd]

81 305 automatic.
- mostly stock with emissions removed, rv style cam and edelbrock performer intake and edelbrock carb, dual exhaust on stock manifolds.
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I'm due for a tune up, but in general, if I start it every day it jumps to life in a second, I have to pump it and get a 4 or 5 revolutions with the starter to get fuel to it if it has sat unstarted for a few days. My problem is when I drive it and get it up to temp (no overheat, or hot run issues at all ) it HAS to cool down, or it is very hard to start. It seems like both the starter is dragging when hot and fuel to the carb is an issue. Battery is new. I have never changed the starter and ive had the truck for over 8 years. Just recently seeing this as an issue.. though when I think of it, the truck has always been harder to start when fully heated up, or after a long drive.
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Any ideas? Is the starter just on its last leg? should I heat shield it?
I could just throw a new starter on it and see, but trying to get an understanding of what I got going on.. and I'm not crazy about putting an autozone starter in it either.. Is there a "high torque" or later model starter for a gen 1 chev smallblock that is mo better?
Seems like I gots 2 problems.

[78cheyenne292]

is it electric choke? when my motor is warm and i give it gas to start my eletric choke always sets and made it a pain to start.. try just avoiding the pedal when you start it warm.. or if you need to give it gas take ur breather off give it gas make sure ur choke is off then try.. atleast that shows you thats not the problem if it doesnt work.. and if you try and start it does you starter feel hot? does the motor turn over at a normal speed?

[primrrd]

thanks...
starter drags like the battery is low, but battery is fine...

[nbpro]

timeing ?

[ont_guy_38]

Originally Posted by nbpro

timeing ?

^^^^^^^^

[benoit454]

if the starter drags it's too far advanced.

If not then it's the edelbrock carb and intake, fuel is boiling over, need the edelbrock heat insulator gasket, had that happen to me.

Only time was with edelbrock carb on alum. intake, edelbrock on a stock intake with adapter is fine, but alum. intake carb directly to it boiled over. The insulator gasket was like $15 and worked perfectly. It seems like a fuel issue because the carb is dry, the fuel boils out and there's nothing left, you have to hit the gas to let air in since the motor is basically flooded by raw gas dumping in the intake when it boils, and carb is empty. I would try the insulator gasket first and if the starter still drags then retard the timing.

[nbpro]

retard the timing first, then gasket if necessary. no cost that way

[benoit454]

make sure you know where it is first, because if it doesn't fix it, you'll want to advance it back to where it is now. I think that will fix the starter but might still have the hot start and need the gasket.

[nbpro]

Originally Posted by benoit454

make sure you know where it is first, because if it doesn't fix it, you'll want to advance it back to where it is now. I think that will fix the starter but might still have the hot start and need the gasket.

true

[tucsonjwt]

You have the symptoms of "starter heat soak", but that normally occurs on big blocks and vehicles with headers. The exact reason for heat soak is still unclear to me, some say increased resistance in the starter motor from excessive heat, some say the windings actually expand, etc.
Since you have a small block, it could be something else, so check the obvious clean battery connections, grounds, cables, etc.
On my big block, I did the following:
1) Remote solenoid
2) Genuine GM high torque mini starter (about $140)
3) Dual start batteries
You can also get a reflective wrap or aluminum shield for the starter (Summit has them) but I never tried one of these and don't know if they work.
These are all relatively expensive fixes, and probably won't address your problem, but I just thought I would chime in. You can look up starter heat soak on google and get some ideas.
Just for your own information, next time the vehicle is hot and won't start - put jumper cables from a known good battery vehicle to your battery and jump start your vehicle. This works on a "heat soak" condition - probably because the extra amps are enough to force the starter into motion. I get this effect with my dual start battery setup.
My experience with vapor lock or gas boiling out of the carburetor is that the starter will turn over but then engine will not start, until you pump a lot of gas into the carburetor. I still have the gas boil out condition when hot, but I don't want to use adapters and mess up the connections, so I just keep the accelerator all the way to the floor and wait a few seconds for the engine to start - works every time.

[nbpro]

does he have headers ? dual exhaust on stock manifolds. ?
Gm starters used to be susceptable to heat soak. The solenoid would overheat and the vehicle wouldn't start or even click until it cooled down for 15-30 minutes.

One of the cures to the problem was installing a lighter solenoid return spring (GM part #1958679).
That part has been discontinued.

[primrrd]

thanks all for the replies.
The truck will start with a jump - the starter works but spins the motor about half speed... but it seems more like a gas problem when it is happening..
I'll try yalls ideas.

[qu1cks1lver56]

i had the same problem during the summer, spent the money for a mini starter and couldn't be happier.

[tthornt]

your best bet would be installing a edelbrock 9265 heat shield for square bore and a starter

[fixit-p]

Heat soak in a nut shell is that heat increases resistance and resistance limits current draw. A remote solenoid will cure a no crank condition associated with heat soak but wont do any thing for the slow crank condition. I would start with your battery cables and the best way to check them is by doing a voltage drop test. The fact that you say the truck starts fine when jumped tells me either your battery is weak or the cables are bad or corroded.

[ekjunky80]

Originally Posted by qu1cks1lver56

i had the same problem during the summer, spent the money for a mini starter and couldn't be happier.

same here! had one for my 81 regal and now my truck. no problems!

[LiveAnimals]

Sorry if I looked over some info but I didnt feel like reading the whole thread. IMO sounds like typical Edelbrock boiling fuel, add a phenolic spacer to help cool the fuel.
Posted via Mobile Device

[billnorman]

If your stock head pipes had a manifold crossover valve, and you didn't remove it, make sure it opens. Most performance intake manifolds have the crossover blocked but if yours doesn't, make sure it isn't stuck. It will boil the fuel out of a carburetor.

[allengator]

My chevelle acted EXACTLY like you described... just like "heat soak"...

Slightly retarted the timing and now works great!

[primrrd]

I am overdue for a tuneup.
thanks for the ideas- I'll try the tune and timing first, then go from there.
I keep thinking heat, b/c there is no time for the fuel to boil out.
I can turn off the truck after a drive, then immediately try to start it and its
super draggy. My friends at autozone tested the alternator and battery and it is bueno.

[fire120ball]

I have the same issue, it is horrible I have gone through 5 starters in about 2 years, been through three batteries, two heat shields, and a remote solenoid, I sitll have the issue, I have hooker headers, and my starter is wrapped. I bought the higher torque starter but I still eat through starters, Have replaced the wires twice, I have no idea how to fix this. On cold starts works perfect, on warm the starter DRAGS like the battery is dead, check the battery and it will be at about 14.x volts, sometimes jumps help to get that extra amperage but not always. Not to discourage you, just my expierence with it. I finally accepted the fact that I have to replace the starter consintley, So about every 5 months take a trip down to the auto store and get a new starter on my warranty.

[chopped81step]

Could be a bad solenoid. I had this problem on a BB motor, but never a SB.


QUOTE...."starter heat soak"

I had this happen on a big block car I had. The car would start fine first time everytime, but once it got to normal operating temp. it would not want to start, or the starter would drag & battery would seem low but it was fully charged. I changed the solenoid and the problem went away.

[mooseknuckles]

Originally Posted by qu1cks1lver56

i had the same problem during the summer, spent the money for a mini starter and couldn't be happier.

I agree

[qu1cks1lver56]

same exact starter i have

[primrrd]

looks like I'm heading in the right direction..
I tuned up (was overdue) and reset the timeing. much better.
It no longer immediately drags when turned off, but after 5 minutes or
so when warm I still have the fuel issues...
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a spacer is next.
Question for ya'll....
1. If I get the phenolic spacer, do i need to run a gasket on the top and bottom of it?
2. how thick should it be? (i see 1 inch and half inch...)