Starter vent!

[GMCjunkie]

So irritated! Just changed my starter about 2 months ago, if that. I have only started my truck about half dozen times since then, havent even drove it, just try to run it regularly. Also just got the timming set on it, went to crank it up, and got that dreaded, nightmarish shrill grinding noise. Sounds the same as last time, that made me check the starter and find that the housing was cracked. Why in the heck ( assuming that its the same problem) would it mess up again? It got too cold to do anything with it tonight, hopefully if it thaws out tomorrow, I can examine it a little closer. Thanks for listening. Just seems like its one darn thing after another. I dont even mind if it IS one darn thing after another, as long as it isnt the SAME darn thing over and over again...

[GOPAPA]

Have you any bad sound at all whith the 5-6 times you have started it since the new starter was installed?
Loose bolts on the starter that worked loose.?
Some flex plate teeth worn from a bad starter before.?
Best results would be that it is just so COLD that it is giving you thoughts that its a bad starter and not really that bad ..when if warms up some it might be ok .. hope this is the reason gp Larry

[geezer#99]

Did you use the same bolts to mount the new starter. More importantly did you use the correct bolts. The wrong bolts allow the starter to shift around. The correct ones have a raised shank that fits in the holes tighter. Do you have a starter brace on the back of the starter.

[68anniversary]

I would guess the teeth on the flexplate were wore from the last starter. If botht he flexplate and starter are new you shouldn't have any grinding noise. I would look for wore shiny teeth on the ring gear.

[GMCjunkie]

Papa,No, the first few times I started it up it started just fine and it hasnt been that cold, this is a horrible sound. Im gonna get under and try to check the bolts and see if I can tell if the housing is cracked again. Can the fly wheel be turned by had to check for bad teeth?

geezer, I used the new bolts that came with the new starter, a brace? Not sure of that.

68, from what I could tell on the last starter change, the teeth on the fly wheel looked good, again, how can I see where I cant see? How do I turn the fly wheel so I can see all the teeth?

Also, I had so many people tell me NOT to insert the shims when installing the starter, mabey I should have?

Thanks so much y'all
junk

[GOPAPA]

Well, to turn the flywheel you need a flywheel wrench ..it a tool that has jaws that fit into the teeth and enabling you to turn it,,but with out taking out some spark plugs it will be a tough pull I would think.. I did it with my 402 BB and took out the plugs .

You only need shims if the starter gear is hitting the flywheel teeth, or it goes in crooked which will wear the teeth out..
You should have just a bit of space between the teeth ( talking thousands) on the gear and the flyweel teeth when the starter is engaged..

To move the starter one way or the other to straighten it out for the starter gear to go into the flywheel gear,,you use half shims with the bolt the furtherest away from the motor.. Might not need to do this but if you do this is what I did..

BRRRR ! good luck and hope you only need adjustment and not a new starter.. gp Larry

[kaycee]

Put that brace on and be done with it,been there done that.Current starter has been on for 4-5 yrs now.It's amazing how much torque those babies put out,that and I don't buy them autostoned starters fork out the xtra $ and get a reputable one,NAPPA,Carquest etc.

[passthebuck]

I had the same problem. I shimmed and played around with the starter a bunch. Ended up that it was 2 things.
1) My flexplate was egg shapped. Depending on where it stopped, I would get the dreaded grind. Changed flywheel & all was good for a bit, but;
2) The bushing in the nose of my starter was worn out. Caused a gap & let the gears grind instead of mesh together. It was a $3 fix. Zero issues since.

[GOPAPA]

Originally Posted by passthebuck

I had the same problem. I shimmed and played around with the starter a bunch. Ended up that it was 2 things.
1) My flexplate was egg shapped. Depending on where it stopped, I would get the dreaded grind. Changed flywheel & all was good for a bit, but;
2) The bushing in the nose of my starter was worn out. Caused a gap & let the gears grind instead of mesh together. It was a $3 fix. Zero issues since.

I wanted to mention that but I have only heard of that one time ever..not saying it doesn't happen more like to you and others .. good advice you give and it could very well be the problem..the one time I heard of it ,,it was a brand new car.. never know though .. gp Larry

[VetteVet]

If you take the inspection cover off that bolts on with 4 small bolts, you should be able to see the torque converter and the flywheel. Then you can either pry the starter gear back into the flywheel teeth with a screwdriver, or take the battery cable off the starter and have someone hold the key in the start position, and the gear will engage but the engine won't turn over. Then you'll be able to check the gear mesh clearance, with the flywheel gear.
You should be able to see the gear binding when the key switch is released,and the gear may not separate from the flywheel.





Be sure you insulate the cable end to make sure it doesn't touch a ground or you'll be arrested for welding without a helmet Ha Ha.

The grinding you hear is most likely the starter over run clutch because the starter gear is binding and won't release from the flywheel. The engine is running and spinning the flywheel faster than the starter gear, so the gear is forced to spin faster, causing the overrun clutch chatter.

Here is a gif showing how the thing works.



And here is the brace that is hardly ever in place anymore. The cutout end goes on the starter motor bolt that sticks out from the body and the other end bolts to the block.

[69 longhorn]

If you remove your spark plugs, & drop the inspection cover, you should be able to easily turn the flexplate by hand for inspection of the teeth(wear a set of leather gloves, so you dont tear up your hands). As far as shimming, you need an 1/8" drill bit(most of the starters come with a checking rod)...With the starter bolted in place, slide the checking rod tween the OD of the flexplate & the armature shaft on the starter. If its too tight, use the shim under both bolts, till you get the proper "feel"(not loose, but not tight....use it like a feeler guage). If its too loose,cut the shim & shim under the outside bolt only. It is not uncommon to see a replacement starter on one of these old beasts to take 2 or 3 shims under the outside corner. Also, as mentioned, that front brace is a must to keep things inline. best of fun,crazyAl

[GMCjunkie]

Thanks so much for the info, and Vettevet, thanks for the visuals. What yall say makes sense to me. Gonna see if the local parts guys can get the brace for me. Gonna have to warmup some before my willingness to endeavor increases, lol

Thanks again yall, hope I can get it.

[ratrod67]

Originally Posted by VetteVet

If you take the inspection cover off that bolts on with 4 small bolts, you should be able to see the torque converter and the flywheel. Then you can either pry the starter gear back into the flywheel teeth with a screwdriver, or take the battery cable off the starter and have someone hold the key in the start position, and the gear will engage but the engine won't turn over. Then you'll be able to check the gear mesh clearance, with the flywheel gear.
You should be able to see the gear binding when the key switch is released,and the gear may not separate from the flywheel.


Attachment 665196


Be sure you insulate the cable end to make sure it doesn't touch a ground or you'll be arrested for welding without a helmet Ha Ha.

The grinding you hear is most likely the starter over run clutch because the starter gear is binding and won't release from the flywheel. The engine is running and spinning the flywheel faster than the starter gear, so the gear is forced to spin faster, causing the overrun clutch chatter.

Here is a gif showing how the thing works.

Attachment 665197

And here is the brace that is hardly ever in place anymore. The cutout end goes on the starter motor bolt that sticks out from the body and the other end bolts to the block.

Attachment 665195

GOOD POST!! Too bad we don't have the rep points anymore. You deserve a bunch!

[GOPAPA]

Originally Posted by ratrod67

GOOD POST!! Too bad we don't have the rep points anymore. You deserve a bunch!

I second that ..I would of given him a bunch just for helping me with a few things ..thx again VetteVet