Drop member V3- Scotts bolt in front-

[jmedero]

Ok guys I have been doing research on the front crossmember options for my 68 Burb. I have done the back end of the burb with a rear DM and now it sits 3 inches higher then the rear!! So now I am doing the research for the front. Looks like the options are the DM V3, Scotts bolt in front Xmember kit. These are the two kits that I will be looking at. I have Z'ed before and have a sectioned crossmember sitting in my garage, so I have options just trying to get the best kit or deal for me. I know the sectioned xmember is the cheapest since I already have it but I am wanting valid feed back from those who have done the kits.

Thanks guys for your input from experience. This is in no way the thread to be product bashing, name calling or any other crap like that.... lets be grown ups about this and get some more info and fair comparissons for those of us looking at these options.

Juan

[jwalk]

If I had porterbuilts rear already I'd go ahead and buy his front just cause it'll match. I'm sure Scotts front is really nice, but since you've got Nates rear you know it's nice...

[lolife99]

Dropmember.
Look at the two.
They both increase ground clearance.
But the Dropmember has the frame notches for the the steering rack,... the Scotts front end has the rack under the frame.
(Which one do you think is lower?)
Dropmember also uses truck a-arms, truck spindles and rotors.

Both super nice crossmembers,... but I like the Dropmember.
(my 2 cents)

[draggin86]

Porterbuilt all the way! Nate can setup you up with everything you need just like the Scotts setup probably for same price or less.

[tech@scottshotrods]

Originally Posted by draggin86

Porterbuilt all the way! Nate can setup you up with everything you need just like the Scotts setup probably for same price or less.

Our Cross member comes complete from hub to hub for $2895.00 retail, forum price is 2605.50. Lays up to a 31" tall tire comes in air bag or coil over version is 100% TIG welded and all Scotts manufactured parts come with a life time gaurantee! We've been in Biz since 96 and not going any where soon, just because we are relatively new to the C-10 market on a retail level doesn't mean we don't know what we're doing, we are a full service rod shop have built numerous award winning cars ranging from GM design awards to the only shop in history to win the AMBR twice back to back at that... Our experiance and knowledge of the suspesion and custom aftermarket industry will insure that we will be around for a long time supplying and taking care of you guys....
Also Justins passion for these trucks goes back and its in print to prove it in 2001 an artical called X Generation featuring Justin, Troy (rad rides), Dave (tucci engineering) Alan (johnsons Hotrods) as the next generation of great car builders. Justin mentions his passion for the C-10 trucks and how he sees the trend of these trucks being around for some time... 10 years later

[PBFAB.COM]

Just wanted to chime in here and help clarify a few things on price point and add descriptions to what exactly you get when you order a Dropmember.

Dropmember Basic Kit: $1099 (Inlcudes the following: Main crossmember assembly; inner frame support system; upper hats (where the upper control arms and bags mount); motor mounts (you can pick between SBC, BBC, LS1, or I6); Upper shock relocator brackets; transmission x-member; frame notches (yes... this is the part you have to weld); billet tie-rod ends and hardware; billet rack mounting bushings; and all necessary hardware (grade 8)and instructions for installation.

Porterbuilt Tubular Control Arms: $1049 (includes upper and lower control arms, cross-shafts, delrin bushings, ball-joints, and hardware to install. They are designed for a C10 and use factory replacement style ball joints.

Slam Specialties SS7 bags: $150 (pair)

KYB shocks: $89 (pair)

2.5" McGaughy's drop spindles: $230 (these are C10 replacement spindles)

Sway Bar: $249 (1.25" OD. Comes black powdercoated with all hawdware... again a C10 bar that is custom bent to our specs).

Rack and Pinion: $289 (This is a Unisteer rack... name brand and quality)

We also offer package deals and frequently run forum specials.

But wait... no brakes? We do offer brakes as well... they will be for a C10 too. We have some good pricing on these, just call, e-mail, or pm me.

We also offer all the steering linkage and joints; power steering lines; and everything else needed to get your C10 set up right.

Are we the least expensive place to get an IFS... definitely not, nor will we ever be. We do however offer quality products, quality service, and quality tech. support at a more than fair price. When it comes to bolt-in IFS on a C10 we have expertise and experience that is unmatched by any competitor. This is all we do, and have done for the past 7 years... C10 trucks. We were the first to market with an aftermarket bolt-in crossmember for the C10s that uses C10 suspension components... and have nearly 800 crossmembers out there. We have seen and heard it all... and have the answers.

If you have questions you speak to me personally... the guy who designs the parts, signs the checks for Porterbuilt, and cares the most about my customers and my products. I make myself very accessible, and do my best to answer all tech. and install questions in a timely manner... even on the weekends. We are a small family owned operation that has built our customer base on quality parts and quality service.

[jmedero]

Thanks Jon and Nate. See this is why this forum is so great. We can get comparisons of two really good products with out it becoming a pissing match or ugly.

Jon question for you. With your kit can we use the brakes we have or will they not work on the spindle? Also what brand are the spindles and brakes? Speaking in terms of replacement when a brake job is due?

Nate one for you. On the new V3 can you use factory control arms or are your tubulars needed to make it work?

Thanks guys I think this is going to be very helpful for those trying to get all the info on these kits. I know there are others out there with kits, but in my opinion they are not even close to the quality you two offer so they are not mentioned.

Juan
Posted via Mobile Device

[PBFAB.COM]

To answer your question in regards to control arms....

The factory uppers from 63-87 are compatible with our kit. If you are looking for a OE lower arm, it must be from a 73-87. The reason being is that the 73-87 is a different design and dimension than the 63-72.... and the 63-72 will not fit our lower cross-shaft in the DM. Here are some pics that help illustrate a 73-87 lower and how it woould be installed. The cross-shaft in the pic silmulates the cross-shafts that is integrated into our lower crossmember. You remove the factory cross-shaft (by removing the nuts and washers on the outside of the shafts; then cut the shaft in two pieces using your preferred method). It may be necessary to shave a little off the bushings on the inside of the arms, where the cross-shaft will go until you reach an ID of 12.75"... the arm will then slide over the lower cross-shafts in the Dropmember. Pretty straight forward.

[jmedero]

Thanks Nate.
Posted via Mobile Device

[SCOTI]

Scott's set-up uses smaller OE type disc brakes (Camaro type stuff). While the C10 vs. F-body vehicle weights are similar, the first thing Camaro guys want is to upgrade to bigger brakes. Many trucks already have larger brakes or they can be swapped easily because of the interchangeability amongst years. If you have drums & were planning on a disc swap, that point might be a wash. If you already have 12" disc brakes, you're now paying for smaller brakes. If you're upgrading to 13 or 14" brakes, you're going to pay more either way (another wash). Scott's smaller front brakes are easily upgraded for the cost.

Scott's is all inclusive for that price. What if you don't want the tubular arms? Nope, you have to use their arms w/their kit. The DMv3 can use OE arms from a 73-87 or use PB arms or even Ride Techs arms. Not using tubular arms cuts costs but still allows similar drop if the budget is tight. You can upgrade later & still drive the truck in the interim.

Both crossmembers are quality pieces. I don't fall for the 100% TIG welded sales pitch. A proper weld is a proper weld. Ask any guy welding on a beam 10stories in the air.

Show a pic of the Scotts upper a-arm to your local alignment guy & ask how he feels about disconnecting the end-links on the upper a-arm each time the alignment needs to be adjusted vs. putting in a shim for that initial alignment. Once tightened, neither one is going to move. But that 1st alignment is going to be more of a challange. If the shims don't bother you, they dont bother you. If you don't like shims, Scott's set-up eliminates them.

Again, both quality pieces....

[tech@scottshotrods]

We use a forged steel Mustang II spindle, We use this spindle for a number of reasons
1: uses an outter tie rod end, not a heim joint
2: Brake selection Wilwood, Baer, Brembo, SBC all have kits readily available at an affordable cost
3: bolt patern selection we offer it in 5x4 1/2, 5x4 3/4, 5x5, 5x5 1/2, and 6 lug

The caliper we use is off a 82-93 chevy S-10 and the rotor is off a Lincoln Granada which is one hell of a bot of a car over 2 tons LOL
We have upgradeble break options which we opt. to use Wilwood because of the quality and affordability. we offer them in 12", 13" and 14" plain or drilled and slotted rotors, 4 or 6 piston calipers even color options red, black and polished...
Although Nate was the first to come out with his drop member, We where among the first to come out with a bolt on coil over cross member :-)



Since most of you are out of state here is a shot of our shop in Oxnard CA



We may not be family but close to it we at scotts are a team of 10 guys from the office, to fabrication building hand built chassis and bodies to manufacturing your suspension parts



As like most and all reputable Vendors Justin and I are available darn near 247 via email, phone or on the board here, hell alot of you have my personal cell #... We can service any of your automotive needs....

[PBFAB.COM]

Scott's definitely has a nice facility, and has been around for quite some time. I remember reading about them in the magazines back in High School! Also, the spread with Troy is definitely a cool piece... just to be mentioned on the same page as Troy is cool to any car enthusiast. If that was me, that would be mounted right on the front entry wall at my house!

Although we don't have a 10,000 square ft. shop, nor we do have dozens of guys working for us, I am pretty darn proud of what 4 guys in a 2500 sqaure foot shop have accomplished. Heck, there were only two of us building these parts two years ago.

The reason for the rod ends vs. factory tie-rod assemblies is simple, we needed to move the rack up to narrow the track width and provide a decent angle for the steering linkage. This necessitated mounting the outer tie-rod on top of the steering arm... so a factory tie-rod end was out of the question. This also causes the frame to be notched for clearance... but avoids the headache and expense of adding multiple u-joints and idlers to the steering linkage when mounting the rack lower on the x-member.

FYI: I think this was the first bolt-in coil-over set-up for the C10s. It doesn't use C10 parts either.

http://www.jimmeyerracing.com/pu6.html

[tech@scottshotrods]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

Scott's set-up uses smaller OE type disc brakes (Camaro type stuff). While the C10 vs. F-body vehicle weights are similar, the first thing Camaro guys want is to upgrade to bigger brakes. Many trucks already have larger brakes or they can be swapped easily because of the interchangeability amongst years. If you have drums & were planning on a disc swap, that point might be a wash. If you already have 12" disc brakes, you're now paying for smaller brakes. If you're upgrading to 13 or 14" brakes, you're going to pay more either way (another wash). Scott's smaller front brakes are easily upgraded for the cost.

Scott's is all inclusive for that price. What if you don't want the tubular arms? Nope, you have to use their arms w/their kit. The DMv3 can use OE arms from a 73-87 or use PB arms or even Ride Techs arms. Not using tubular arms cuts costs but still allows similar drop if the budget is tight. You can upgrade later & still drive the truck in the interim.

Both crossmembers are quality pieces. I don't fall for the 100% TIG welded sales pitch. A proper weld is a proper weld. Ask any guy welding on a beam 10stories in the air.
Show a pic of the Scotts upper a-arm to your local alignment guy & ask how he feels about disconnecting the end-links on the upper a-arm each time the alignment needs to be adjusted vs. putting in a shim for that initial alignment. Once tightened, neither one is going to move. But that 1st alignment is going to be more of a challange. If the shims don't bother you, they dont bother you. If you don't like shims, Scott's set-up eliminates them.

Again, both quality pieces....

pulled this from another thread justin posted on
Quote:
Originally Posted by fabguy
Tig vs Mig? how does that compare as a sales point? other than looking a little better a Mig weld is just as strong.

Im all for mig welding,But you are going to far to think that tig is only used to show off,The simple fact is that you can control puddle and filler alloy
input much more precisely that with any other common form of welding,Sure
a perfect mig is just as strong as a perfect tig weld.But you can't be sure that the mig weld is pefect,with the tig you can be sure because your
watching the process,step by step and adjusting on the fly,Welding machines
are effected by alot of variables and for a perfect weld to occur you might
need to be constantly adjust the volts & amps.That just isn't realistic with
mig.Sorry tig is actually better!
Justin

[tech@scottshotrods]

Originally Posted by porterbuilt

Scott's definitely has a nice facility, and has been around for quite some time. I remember reading about them in the magazines back in High School! Also, the spread with Troy is definitely a cool piece... just to be mentioned on the same page as Troy is cool to any car enthusiast. If that was me, that would be mounted right on the front entry wall at my house!

Although we don't have a 10,000 square ft. shop, nor we do have dozens of guys working for us, I am pretty darn proud of what 4 guys in a 2500 sqaure foot shop have accomplished. Heck, there were only two of us building these parts two years ago.

The reason for the rod ends vs. factory tie-rod assemblies is simple, we needed to move the rack up to narrow the track width and provide a decent angle for the steering linkage. This necessitated mounting the outer tie-rod on top of the steering arm... so a factory tie-rod end was out of the question. This also causes the frame to be notched for clearance... but avoids the headache and expense of adding multiple u-joints and idlers to the steering linkage when mounting the rack lower on the x-member.

FYI: I think this was the first bolt-in coil-over set-up for the C10s. It doesn't use C10 parts either.
http://www.jimmeyerracing.com/pu6.html

hence why I said amoung the first :-)

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by jon@scottshotrods

Although Nate was the first to come out with his drop member, We where among the first to come out with a bolt on coil over cross member :-)

Jim Meyers had the 1st front C/O set-up for these trucks that I'm aware of. Porterbuilt was 2nd w/the C4 Dropmember from what I remember.

[jimmydean]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

...the C4 Dropmember...

[tech@scottshotrods]

also I want every one to know this isn't a who's better than who.. To be honest Nate and I are pretty good friends I use to be his account rep at Air Ride. I think hes offers a great product and service. This thread is like comparing ford vs chevy, sbc vs ls etc.. some people have one prefference over the other and there is nothing wrong with that hell if nate drank i would buy the guy a beer LOL altho he flaked on our dinner date in November :-)

[tech@scottshotrods]

Originally Posted by SCOTI

Jim Meyers had the 1st front C/O set-up for these trucks that I'm aware of. Porterbuilt was 2nd w/the C4 Dropmember from what I remember.

we've had our coil over version since the beggining of 2010. as stated thats why i said amoung one of the first :-)

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by jon@scottshotrods

we've had our coil over version since the beggining of 2010. as stated thats why i said amoung one of the first :-)

Among the first meaning after Jim Meyers & PB's C4 Dropmember.

I bought a C4 DM in 2007 after looking into JM's x-member. I didn't buy the JM piece because like Scotts, it uses smaller 11" brakes as standard equipment.

[PBFAB.COM]

Definitely don't want this thread to turn into something other than information and a comparison of facts between two similar products. As Jon mentioned, we are friendly... we have spoken on the phone at least a dozen times. He can buy me a pink lemonaide or a Mountain Dew whenever he wants!

Fact and opinion are two different things.

Fact: Porterbuilt and Scotts both make IFS kits for the C10.
Fact: There are numerous differences between the two kits.
Opinion: Nate is better looking than Jon

If you are researching a front kit for your C10... do your homework. Find the one that is best for you and what you want to accomplish. Call the various companies that make the product and discuss all your questions and concerns. It's an investment any way you go, so make sure it is one that you are comfortable making. Don't let somebody else make the decision for you.

[crawdadfox]

After doing a TCI Mustang II setup on my 62 Nova i was wondering if strength would be an issue when using Mustang II parts on a fullsize 1/2 ton truck.

[Wildstreak]

A lot of great info in this thread!

[robnolimit]

NEWS FLASH
Although I wasn't planning on letting this out until next month when the invites go out, You guys get the info first. Early this summer, in june, we will be co-hosting the first ever C-10 Suspension Drive-off. This will be an "invite only" event designed to showcase the different suspensions and upgrade kits avaible for these trucks. As both Porterbuilt and Scott's are on the invite list, and we want both to be there, this seems like a great place to let the word out. Entrants must bring a 67-72 short bed, with their suspension parts installed. Any motor/trans combo, wheel/tire, and brake kit are allowed. All entrants MUST provide a COMPLETE parts list of ALL chassis, suspension, brake, and drive line component. Including part #, origen, and list price. Any "custom" or "one-off" items or mods must also be listed. The event will take place in Riverside, Ca. and will feature several magazine editors, two professional drivers (well known), and a know TV personality, as test drivers. The trucks will be driven by all drivers on a 12 mile "street drive" loop, and on a Time Attack road coarse by no less than two editors two pro drivers, and the truck owner. All of the results will be published including build stats, street drive comments, and track times. Our goal is not to try and show who's is best, but to show the strengths of each product, so that the enthusiests can get the results they're after. Other invites will go to Hotchkis, ECE, Jim Meyer, Marquez Design, CPP, KP pomponents, Ride Tech and others. If you don't see your name, and you want your company invited, pm me.

[PBFAB.COM]

Originally Posted by robnolimit

NEWS FLASH
Although I wasn't planning on letting this out until next month when the invites go out, You guys get the info first. Early this summer, in june, we will be co-hosting the first ever C-10 Suspension Drive-off. This will be an "invite only" event designed to showcase the different suspensions and upgrade kits avaible for these trucks. As both Porterbuilt and Scott's are on the invite list, and we want both to be there, this seems like a great place to let the word out. Entrants must bring a 67-72 short bed, with their suspension parts installed. Any motor/trans combo, wheel/tire, and brake kit are allowed. All entrants MUST provide a COMPLETE parts list of ALL chassis, suspension, brake, and drive line component. Including part #, origen, and list price. Any "custom" or "one-off" items or mods must also be listed. The event will take place in Riverside, Ca. and will feature several magazine editors, two professional drivers (well known), and a know TV personality, as test drivers. The trucks will be driven by all drivers on a 12 mile "street drive" loop, and on a Time Attack road coarse by no less than two editors two pro drivers, and the truck owner. All of the results will be published including build stats, street drive comments, and track times. Our goal is not to try and who's is best, but to show the strengths of each product, so that the enthusiests can get the results they're after. Other invites will go to Hotchkis, ECE, Jim Meyer, Marquez Design, CPP, KP pomponents, Ride Tech and others. If you don't see your name, and you want your company invited, pm me.

Guess I better hold off on my square body and see if I can't get a 67-72 together by then. That's gonna be a tough time-line for me. But we will do our best. Can I bring a blazer?

[Clyde65]

can we just have one on one side and the other on the other side...I hate conflict!