Q's on subframe swap

[55metalmonkey]

55 GMC step-side shortbox (TF) & 72 Camaro sub frame with 350/ TH400 to be installed

I figured I should ask a few questions from this forums massive brain trust before I dig out the scalpel (sawsall) and cut my frame to do a camaro clip install. I’ve pretty much read the whole internet on the subject and checked out just about every possible way it has been done. I’m planning on using the whole clip and laying the bottom edge of the original frame on top of the sub frame, this should give me TONS of strength. BTW thanks to whoever posted the pics of the very nice silver painted one done this way on this forum, it made convincing the boss (wifie) that this was the best way to go with it.I’m planning on making a paralleling jig to make sure everything is perfectly square by using two long bars (1 per side) welded to wheel blanks and bolting them to the wheel mounting surfaces, I figure that if I make each side of the jig symmetrical to the other there is no possible way the clip would fit in place without being perfectly square, of course I’ll measure everything 1000 times before I start welding.

This brings me to a few questions:
1: From what I’ve read some people keep the wheel base at 114” and don’t have any issues while others have had problems with the bottom of the radiator rubbing or interfering with the steering box. Has anyone experienced this? Rad is an original style 4 core from CPP

2: Some people recommend adding 2” to the wheel base (i.e. 116”) which is more intended to center the front wheel better in the wheel opening but also they seem to avoid the possible issue in raised in question #1. I was planning a compromise between the two at 115” but am curious as to others opinions and experience with adding to the wheel base.

3: I’m also planning to do an axle over spring in the rear but haven’t been able to get any real info on how much of a C notch is needed to maintain clearance. It already has a camaro rear end and I’m not planning on hauling anything much heavier than the sister in-law (and even then she can take the bus IMO) so I’m wondering how much will give me good clearance and not be too much? BTW it will get boxed with ¼” steel also.

Thanks All

[Indian113]

you mean this one?

[Jb55]

the sub frame i used was off a 78 nova and i had to widen the frame 3" 1.5 a side if i remember correctly did it just like the picture off the bottom of the stock frame then added a square tube on top to fill the rest of the gap then i boxed over that.another thing i did was run a plate from the bottom of the stock frame up onto the sub frame to tie them togeather.measure twice cut once make sure u cross measure to a common point so u are square good luck

[55metalmonkey]

Indian113, yes that is the exact one, must have taken a hell of a lot of work to get it that smooth and clean. replied to your PM with my home email. Thanks in advance.
JB55, I've measured up my subframe and it should fit just like in the pic. I'm likely going to add in some reinforcement like you suggest but will have to plan that out after the graft. I'm going to keep the frame mounted brake booster so hopefully there shouldn't be any interference problems if I box the inside of the frame at the clip back to the booster mount.
still wondering about adding an inch or so to the length (ya.. ya.. thats what she said...)

[Indian113]

I just e-mailed a bunch of pictures your way,take lots of pictures you'll be alright

[55metalmonkey]

Will do, I have a 8Gb memory card waiting to get filled.

[67swb72klb]

what about if u dont have a frame i am lookn at a 55 on a 4x4 frame i dont want to go that way ??

[55metalmonkey]

Is it the 4x4 parts you don't want or do you want to go with an original style but modified frame?
To be honest a lowered 4x4 chassis under a 55 would be kinda unique and launch like a friggin rocket with the right engine.
If you just want to swap the frame out for a 2wd you could go the S-10 or Dakota route. Lots of threads and info on those swaps and pretty commonly done.
If you’re looking to go to what I'm doing I'm sure there are lots of unused original frames out there.
It really depends on what your grand plan is, engine, trans, lowered, stock, better handling, air bags, $$$$$$, ect all things take into consideration before deciding which way to go on a frame.

[67swb72klb]

just lowered a bit 2 wheel drive not a hi dollar build i heard a little about the dakoda frame swap dont know how much fabricating is involved ? think i would rather stay gm if u know what i mean

[55metalmonkey]

here is what I could find, and if anyone knows anything that is wrong or missed please jump on in!!
pre 97 Dodge Dakota
wheel base
111.9 in (2842 mm)
123.9 in (3147 mm)
130.9 in (3325 mm) (ext. cab)
Track width
60.8" front & rear

pre 93 chevy S-10
wheel base
108.3 in (2,751 mm) (reg. cab short bed)
117.9 in (2,995 mm) (reg. cab long bed)
122.9 in (3,122 mm) (ext. cab short bed)
Track width
54 front and 60 rear

When I was looking into this and concidering it for myself, (which I do a lot because I'm pretty boared at work). Alot of guys go for the S-10 reg cab long box because the size is fairly close to the original frame. I've also heard of using C-10 and blazer frames as well but don't know too much about them. should be easy to find in the search box at the top. S-10's seem to be the most common choice because of their availability and the ease of engine swaps. Best way to get some opinions from guy's that have acually done it is to start a new thread asking what the pro & cons are and ask for opinions. Like I said I haven't done it myself just did a LOT of reading on the subject.
One thing I was always curious about with these swaps...... if the wheel base is 117.9" why not avoid cutting the frame, move the center of the front wheel fwd 2 to 2.5" to center it better in the opening and center the rear wheel 1.5" further back? there might be issues with it but it's worth looking into if you don't have the space and equip available to start chopping frames.

[DG Racing]

Originally Posted by 55metalmonkey

here is what I could find, and if anyone knows anything that is wrong or missed please jump on in!!


pre 93 chevy S-10
wheel base
108.3 in (2,751 mm) (reg. cab short bed)
117.9 in (2,995 mm) (reg. cab long bed)
122.9 in (3,122 mm) (ext. cab short bed)
Track width
54 front and 60 rear

.

I notice that your track width is wrong if its
54 in the front its about 54 in the back .

My 1992 s-10 is 54 inch in the back

But a 1992 4x4 its about 58 inch (But check for the 4x4 specs )

[55metalmonkey]

You are correct Sir! I blame Wilkipedia for my ignorance...

This info is probably a bit more accurate
http://www.roaddevils.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5727

[55metalmonkey]

One heck of a busy day, 8 hrs start to finish and it ended up perfectly square. I now have to refit the body and box to fab the rad support and bumper brackets then it's off to the sand blaster.

Thanks indian113 for the pics, everything worked like a charm....I ended up just keeping the 114 wheelbase. The jig I fabricated made it incredibly easy to realign the frame everytime I lifted it to grind more off the frame took 20+ trial fits to get it just right. I'll post pics soon

[59weasel]

can't wait to see pics. as i'm a week away from this same project. i have a couple buddys and my ol' man coming over next Saturday so we can get the ball rollin.

[Indian113]

Hey weasel if you want the same pics I sent Metal monkey pm me your e-mail add and I'll send them to you. I can't wait to see the finished frame either. Glad I could help

[63chevyll]

Cool I can't wait to see it..
Posted via Mobile Device

[55metalmonkey]

I put the cab, box, hood & fenders on yesterday, I love the stance now... just right IMO. I might have to work on how the box mounts to get it just the way I want it.
I'll post pics soon; my 2 month old 'new camera' must have been delivered on the short bus.... glad it's still under warrantee

[Indian113]

So tell me metalmonkey would you do it this way again?

[55metalmonkey]

I think this was probably the best and easiest way this could be done hands down, easy simple and IMO 100x stronger than any of the 5+ other ways I looked into. lots of finikey grinding to get it just right but thats probably my personality. So would I do it again oh ya in a heart beat,
I think my jig helped a bit but it would be just as easy to do with a few extra hands helping out
Also next time I would add an inch to put the wheels a little more forward in the wheel well but am still in the process of figuring out if it would interfer with anything

I think I got my camera figgured out I'll post pics later tonight.... gotta go play with my truck some more.
Thanks again...pics to come

[55metalmonkey]

pics before and after

[55metalmonkey]

and some more
took quite a while to get the fit right but it was worth it, frame & clip were square to within 1/64". the jig was just to keepthe wheel base perfectly symetrical left and right but it dod make it real easy to flip up the frame to grind a bit and the relocate it to where it was before without having to fight with it. the frame might look a little rusty in the pic but it's mostly undercoating embedded with 55 years of road grime. once I get a few more things fitted it will be off to the sandblaster and then I get to see what is really under all the crud..... I'm hopeing for no surprizes.
I took tons of pics but there such a pain to resize, I'll get around to it soon

[Indian113]

Lookin GOOD,You did a nice job on that! Glad I could help a little,hope we get a chance to meet someday

[55metalmonkey]

Thanks for the pics and advice, sandblasting and painting next...... well after I:
fit the bumper and core support,
turn some nylon bed mounting spacers
build, fit and install new rear shock mounts and bump stops,
design, build, and fit a roll pan,
work on steering hook up,
tear it all apart again,
fill several dozen redundant holes in frame,
ect ect ect... damn I got a lot of work to do still

[OrrieG]

That square stock tying the front and rear drums together is a good idea. Progress is looking good.

[67swb72klb]

looking good its gona be a sweet ride