68 4wd conversion...PLEASE HELP

[ncgamedog]

Hi guys. So my grandfather is wanting to restore his 1968 lwb 2wd. I have convinced him to swap it over to 4wd. I have seen folks swap to a 73-87 frame in the past but have not been able to find good information on what is exactly necessary to pull off this conversion cleanly. I would prefer to find a 69-72 original 4wd frame but have had no luck so far and I have an 85 CUCV frame available. I do want to run 3/4 ton axles for towing and such, but dont want to lift the truck at all. I want it to be as user friendly for my grandfather as possible. He's 80 yrs old, although still in great health, if its lifted over a couple inches its going to be annoying for him to climb in and out of. Any help or links would be great!!
thanks -Justin

[lukefalls]

Not sure exactly what your question is. You can use a 73+ frame, but keep in mind that the body mounts are different. If you've got some basic fab skill (enough to convert to 4wd), then you should be able to overcome that.

Swapping to 3/4 ton gear will not give you any lift and 3/4 ton gear is interchangeable between frames (moving the rear leaf spring perches).

Look at Pirate4x4.com. Don't ask vague questions there or they'll eat you alive. I've seen the frame swap done there. You'll have to search.

I hope this helps. If you have specific questions, post 'em up.

Good Luck

[ncgamedog]

Yeah gottcha...I'm actually a loooong time pirate member, but this type of build def doesn't qualify as hardcore so it prob wont fit there.

I am wanting to hear from guys with experience specific to this frame swap.

My specific concerns are the difference between the CUCV (1 ton) frame and the 1/2 ton frames. As I understand it the CUCV frame is 2" taller, and I'm concerned about this adding height unnecessary height to the truck, giving the appearance of a body lift.

I have only personally seen one other truck done this way and it was a 1/2t swb. I noticed a wheel base difference between the 73-87 and 67-72. On the SWB that I saw the front axle was not quite centered in the wheel well and looked closer to the firewall by about an inch or so. I could remedy this by adding "zero rates" or using 52" rears up front, but I'd prefer the latter for height reasons. The issue with pushing the axle forward is the stock push pull steering. I'm not sure how to address the tie rod geometry...It would need to be shorter. I dont want to move the steering box forward, and would like to avoid crossover. Don't get me wrong, crossover would be great but I am not sure if I could clear it with stock springs and zero rates. Supposedly, the engine cradle crossmember is the big issue with clearance when running crossover with low lift. I dont mind cutting it out, and replaceing it with tube as long as the crossover style tie rod would clear the top of the leaves.

These are the pitfalls I am rolling in my head, thats why I present it here to get some feed back from guys who may have been through this before I drop the coin, and am potentially unhappy with the results.

[onebadbowtie]

why not just convert your 2wd frame to a 4wd and swap in 3/4 running gear. or buy a 67-72 3/4 4wd roller frame and swap your body over. would look better in my opinion and alot less work. and would keep you at the stock height. i do believe when you swap to the later frame you gain some height but i dont remember exactly why. hope this helps

[ncgamedog]

I'd love to find a 67-72 4wd frame but I have just had no luck finding one within any reasonable distance.

I am assuming the 68 2wd and 4wd frames are completely different??

I could hang leaves in the front...but the rear frame section is like an "X" shape with truck arms and coils. I'm not sure how to make the rear appear stock with leaves?

[onebadbowtie]

my bad i was just assuming your truck had a leaf spring rear end. i forget about most of them having coil spring rear ends.

[lukefalls]

Got ya. The added height of the other frame only adds 1" overall to the height of the truck. I do know that the body mounts are going to be in the wrong position. The radiator mounts will be in the right place.

Attached is a pic of my WFO Concepts double steer arms with my front axle pushed 3" forward. The box is in the factory location. The pic belongs in ghetto fab on Pirate, but its all been fixed, I promise. Though this IS a 71 4wd frame, it shows that you can push the axle forward without killing geometry.

That is the extent of my ability to help. Good Luck

[duallyjams]

You will have to convert your frame or find a 67-72 frame to keep the ride height low any other year frame you are going to add height to it. You could look for a 2wd leaf spring frame to convert.

[ncgamedog]

If the later frame only adds an inch, I can deal with that. I just dont want it to look like the body is just sitting on top of the frame, kinda like how it looks when people throw mini cabs on full size frames.

What specific parts and pieces would I need to convert the frame or a 2wd leaf frame??

If anyone has a line on a 4wd frame in the south/southeast please let me know!

[msgross]

I would find a 71 or 72 truck with drivetrain... you will be happier with the end result...


start working on the body right now and search for a rusted up 71/72 for a donor. Then clean it up and make the body swap. Do it right the first time and you'll be better in the long run.

[lukefalls]

With a 2wd frame, you'll need to find front shackle mounts and front spring hangers. For the front of the front spring, you'll have to drill a few 9/16 holes to mount it. It lines up with the front radiator support.

For the shackle hanger, you'll need to drill a 1 7/8" hole (I think) just in front of the front body mount. Then it mounts with more 9/16 bolts.

Off Road Design sells aftermarket shackle hangers. I am sure that there are a ton of companies that sell the front spring hanger, but DIY4x come to mind first.

I can measure my frame to give you exact measurements if you want.

[ncgamedog]

yeah the front is no biggie...I actually still have some 73-87 front shackle hangers.

converting the rear to leaves would be what I have no clue about.

I really want to find a 71-72 frame!! lol

The sad thing is there is one about 5 miles from me (72) and the guy refuses to sell it...and its been sitting for years and will rot right where it sits. He's the guy who is gonna fix it up one day, even though it s obvious to everyone that is never gonna happen lol

[msgross]

hit some junkyards or swap meets...

ours had two frames, one with full drivetrain last year for sale..

[ncgamedog]

going to look at a 72 frame this weekend. How can I visually distinguish it from say a 67-68, 70, or 73-87. Im pretty sure I can tell it apart from the 73-87 by the front body and spring mounts. what else should I look for??

[madmopar]

I have a 70 on a 75ish 4x4 frame. When I got my truck, the 70's frame was already cut off in the back... so instead of chopping the middle of the frame, I moved the rear axle forward. My frame still has the curve in it, and it looks lifted in the back, but not the front. I'm looking to even that out with some front lift springs. It will take a 4 inch front lift to level it out... I'm not sure I want to do that yet... so my project is kinda sitting idle.

TO get a stock ride height, you have to chop out the curve in the frame. You will probably have to cut the frame anyway to get the right wheelbase. 68tt did one of these swaps. I think he got the body swapped OK, and now is looking at drive train options. Here is his post: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=400629

[onebadbowtie]

the vin number on the frame will tell you. here is a link to help you out.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=441158

[duallyjams]

The 72 frame will have a extra plate welded on the inside of the frame where the power steering box bolts up.

[1malo68]

The 67-68 frame will have 2-1/4" wide spring hangers. That's why it's almost impossible to find a spring lift for the rear. 69-72 are 2-1/2". I went through this when I was going to lift my 68. I finally found a 72 swb frame and it does have the extra plate @ the steering gear box. Good luck and don't give up looking for one. Right Place, Right Time!

[1malo68]

Or you could just buy this
http://lasvegas.craigslist.org/cto/2317109123.html

[ncgamedog]

Picked up a 72' frame this weekend! Its in great shape and I got it as a roller with a D44/12b 3.73...Perfect! It is missing the trans crossmember, but has the small one for the two bolts on the side of a 205. Now I have a lot of blasting, wire wheeling, and painting to do

Where is the best place to get replacement spring bushings and body mounts? LMC?

[71blksuper4x4]

Nice job, that is definitely a 67-72 frame you got for sure. The shocks are mounted the same way. 73-up they are caddy-corner of each other. Good score, and you should be able to find the tranny crossmember easy enough. Trevor

[1malo68]

Congratulations! Are you going to go stock height or lift it? Do you want rubber or poly mounts and bushings? LMC is a good place but there are tons of others out there too. You've pretty much got a blank slate now. The sky's the limit...and what I mean by "the sky" is the credit card. Enjoy!

[ncgamedog]

Stock height for now so that my grandfather can enjoy the truck for a few years. Ive used poly in the past...but I'm tempted to just go with stock type rubber on this. The poly is squeaky and I'm sure the rubber will out last the truck lol.

Not sure on which body mount kits to get...since its a 68 going on a 72 frame, should I get them for the 68 or the 72? LMC lists different ones.

I'm also undecided on whether to spend the money to re build the half tons or go with a set of 3/4 tons I found from a later burb. The stock 44/12b axles will need locking hubs, brakes, and wheel/hub bearings for sure. The front will prob need ball joints and u-joints too. The yolks felt a little sloppy too when I hand checked them, but I wont know till I pop the covers. The 3/4's are an 8-lug 44 and 14b FF for $300. Havent seen them yet but I bet they need less work. Both sets are 3.73. Only thing is if I go 3/4T I want to do rear disk's with hydro boost and eldorado calipers, which will add a little cost.

The budget on the truck is around 5k-7k

[1malo68]

You will want to get the mounts for the 72 frame. When I got mine from LMC, I ordered them for the 68 and they were wrong. The centers were too small and I ordered them way before I got my frame so I couldn't return them. The 3/4 ton axles sounds like an awesome deal but keep in mind you will probably have to do some fab work ( shock mounts and maybe even move the perches ) Mine came out of a 79 K20 and I had to do both. The shocks were staggered and the perches were too wide. I'm not sure about the Burb.

[ncgamedog]

Thanks for the advise on the mounts!

So I did a little digging...It seems that the 72 D44 is the same width and everything as the 73-87 fronts. Correct??

The difference I found was the shafts have 260 u-joints (same as a dana 30) YUCK!

So if that's true:
1) Can I simply replace the inner and outer shafts w/ 73-87 shafts?

2) Are the warn locking hubs the same for the 72 44 as the later axles?