ride height problem

[tallic68]

Hello everyone,

My name is mike and I have been lurking and a member here for a while. I've already solved a few problems with the vast info here. Thanks for all your help so far.

But, I have a new problem.

A little history.
I have a 68 c10 longbed with a 70 monte carlo 350 and a th400. The truck was stock when I got it last january. Other than the 350. A previous owner replaced ball joints but I don't think they did the A arm bushings.

I blew the truck apart and sand blasted the frame body and some parts I had sitting around. I rebuilt the rear suspention in febuary with a full suspention rebuild kit w/ front and rear STD springs from LMC truck.
The rear rebuild went great. Big difference.
W/ no change in ride hight.

A couple weeks ago I started on the front. I tore the front apart, had the a arms blasted and started rebuilding it.

I have what I think is a CPP stock hight disk break kit that I got off a donner car for free. After repurchaseing 73 ball joints outter tie rod ends, conversion tie rod adjuster sleeves, and a CPP 1 1/4 sway bar. I assembled the truck and set it back on it's wheels.

The front is slammed. It was so low, really low. I called LMC truck and they had me remove the front springs and measure them. Right after I pulled them they were 12 1/2 inches. They said they should be 13 1/4". They were going to have their tech dept call me and we could figure something out. After sitting out of the truck for a day they are now 13 1/4" I did not measure ride hight before pulling the new springs.


While waiting for LMC to call me back I revisited the option sticker on the glove box. And after doing what I could to freshen it up and be able to read it. It says it came with HD front and rear springs.

After three days of waiting, I called them. They said that I have the proper springs and there was no way of exchanging the springs for HD springs unless I return the entire rebuild kit.


Here is my questions and concerns.

Are HD springs the problem im seeing in ride hight. HD springs are still 13 1/4 tall uninstalled so the difference in ride hight has to be the spring rate right?

If I leave the STD springs in the front, The suspention will still be fine right? I guess it would be stock ride hight for STD spring equiped trucks.

Is there a problem with HD spring in the front and STD springs in the rear?

Also, the front wheels seem to extend out past the fenders more that hey did before. They use to be flush with the fenders now they seem to be out more.
Is this because I haven't got an alignment yet or did the new spindels push out and widen the hub width.

I have compared my new spindels to lowering spindles through pics online and catalogs and they deffinetly dont match. The actual spidle is as close to the lower ball joint mount as it can be i am confident that they are stock hight spindles. New spindels are 9" from ball joint mount serface to surface, with the spidle approx 2' up from lower ball joint mount surface.

I would prefer to leave the truck at stock hight for now. It is my primary transpertation and i do go places that might need the suspention.

I'm guessing my options are this
1. live with the truck low. I just dont like the stink bug look.

2. purchase new HD springs and return to previous ride hight.

3. live with the new ride hight and later come back and put different springs in the rear to match new front ride hight.

I think I've given all the info I have and layed out all my questions.

Any and all help will be greatly appriciated

Thanks in advance,
Mike

[tallic68]

Ok so I reassembeled the front end with the new springs.
Back is 36"
Front is 34"

So im guessing it looks wierd to me because im not use to the rake.
STD spring droped the front 2".

Sorry for the wrong area.

[N2TRUX]

Welcome to the forum tallic68. If it were me I would consider lowering the rear just a bit. I know you don't really want a low truck, but these things sit pretty high in stock form. A mild drop gives a sporty look and a much better feel on the road.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by tallic68

Ok so I reassembeled the front end with the new springs.
Back is 36"
Front is 34"

So im guessing it looks wierd to me because im not use to the rake.
STD spring droped the front 2".

Sorry for the wrong area.

There was typically a 2" difference between the front & rear so that once the truck was loaded, it wouldn't 'squat' too much to the point of being compromised. Sounds like the springs are paired correctly by the height measurements.

[tallic68]

Ok so I took it today and had an alignment done.

Driving it home I noticed some issues.
In parking lots or going around my culdisac. The turning radius is significantly deminished. The last 1/2 turn on the steering wheel dose nothing. The tires occassionally shudder, and they squeel when I turn on concrete or painted lines. I know this can happen normally to an extent, but it dose it more and worse than before I did the rebuild. The guy at the shop said that he noticed it when he test drove it, but said it was due to the tires I had on. 31x 10.5x15. Said it was just trying to grab to much pavment.??? He said if I went to a more standard tire it would be better. Now I'm not defending these tires and rims. I dislike almost hate them, the are U G L Y, and if I had the money, I would buy tires for the 16x8 center lines I'v got in the garage. But I cant.

The truck is severly effected by wind. Just the normal evening prevailing winds here, pushing me around. Not crazy but noticeable. Could any of this be due to me not being use to the new sway bar?

When I got home I noticed the drivers side inner tie rod hits the pitman arm to centerlink eyelet with about 1/2 -1/3 turn on the wheel left till it hits the lock. Passenger side tie rod hits, but just as it hits the lock. If I lift the truck up 2" with a jack and spin the wheel, lock to lock, there is plenty of clearence all around.

Welcome to the forum tallic68. If it were me I would consider lowering the rear just a bit. I know you don't really want a low truck, but these things sit pretty high in stock form. A mild drop gives a sporty look and a much better feel on the road.

I wouldn't mind but I don't think I can with the tierod clearence.

There was typically a 2" difference between the front & rear so that once the truck was loaded, it wouldn't 'squat' too much to the point of being compromised. Sounds like the springs are paired correctly by the height measurements.

Now with the allignmeent and a couple miles on her, she sits at
33" front
36" back

And the front tires still sit outward (wider) that the back.
I'm stumped. Everthing should be the same set up as tons of other guys, but something is wrong. Can 2" from non HD springs really cause these problems. Did I get the wrong spindles? Is it a combination of all things? AAAAAAAAH!!


OK I'm good now.
Thanks again,
Mike

[PGSigns]

The disc brake kit widened the front by about 3/4" per side. I would take a good look at the spindles that you pulled and the ones you put on it to ensure that they are not a drop set. When you listed the doner you called it a car. What did the parts you put on it come from and what came from the doner and what is from your truck? Some of your problems may be from a mix of 73 and later components that are not right.
Jimmy

[tallic68]

Spindles and rotors are from donor "truck" sorry. A 69 c10, that when I pulled them off had a normal stance.
Upper and lower ball joints, outer tie rods, bearings, calipers, seals, pads and other hub and brake hardware are for a 73 c10 purchased from auto zone. All other suspention parts, asside from sway bar are for 68 c10 from a full rebuild kit from LMC truck.

I don't have drop ones to compare to but looking at catalogs and pics of drop spindles they are fairly obvious. The actual spindle that the bearings ride on is in the middle of the ball joint mounts from what I can tell. The ones I put on are at the very bottom as close to lower ball joint mout as they can be.

[SCOTI]

Do you have a print-out of the alignment specs he used?

The front track width will be wider than the rear w/disc brakes. The factory fixed this by utilizing a slightly wider rear housing in 71 (to better match the slightly wider front). I always run narrower front wheels (6.5" van ralleys) & wider rears (8" truck ralleys) as a cheap way around the wider disc brake front (6 & 8" solid steelie combo works well too ).

[tallic68]

Do you have a print-out of the alignment specs he used?

The front track width will be wider than the rear w/disc brakes. The factory fixed this by utilizing a slightly wider rear housing in 71 (to better match the slightly wider front). I always run narrower front wheels (6.5" van ralleys) & wider rears (8" truck ralleys) as a cheap way around the wider disc brake front (6 & 8" solid steelie combo works well too ).

The print out he gave me dosen't say anything about width. Just

L --------------------- R
1.04' --- camber------ 0.28'
2.30' --- caster -------2.54'
0.22 --- toe ----------0.19


. = degree

He said that the drivers front has no more adjustment, and was the closest he could get it. If I were to raise it back, then he would be able to get it within tolerance.

When I dissasembeled the front with the springs I go the truck with. The lower a arm had to got almost 90 degrees down to get the spring out. The STD springs that I put in, the a arm was almost at a 45 degree and was able to get the new springs in.

Is it possable that the prior owner put lifting or leveling springs in the front when he put those big U G L Y tires and rims on?

But still, this is stock ride hight why do I have such clearance and geometry problems. This is going to drive, me to smoke again.
I was reading the suspention thread "Make it handel" http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=419251
and read the part about pushing through the corner. Now this dosen't happen whil driving. But is reall bad, say, pulling into a parking space, or my driveway.

Mike

[tallic68]

Dead in the water till I can fix this.
Any Ideas?

[SCOTI]

New, stock length (not dropped) coils should require the a-arm to be dropped significantly to install. Dropped coils, would not require the a-arm to drop as low for the installation & would be much easier to get into place.

The alignment sheet wouldn't have any info concerning the track width. It is a concern as that there's a notable difference in the camber.

You need to get some pics up so we can see what exactly we're trying to help accomplish.

[tallic68]

All pictures were taken on level ground, sitting on all fours, wheels strieght.



So here is a pic from drivers spindle inward. As you can see the inner tie rod is already tweeked a little. Just from the drive home.




Here you can see the nick in the paint of the centerlink pitman arm eyelet from hitting the inside of the inner tie rod.







Here is the pic of the glove box options sticker.
HD front springs.
HD rear springs.

Dose anyone know the ride hight of a HD spring equiped truck?

[SCOTI]

First problem I see is the centerlink/tie-rods are installed wrong. Let me see if I can find a reference pic. Check this thread out for some decent pics & info....
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=400205

[tallic68]

First problem I see is the centerlink/tie-rods are installed wrong. Let me see if I can find a reference pic. Check this thread out for some decent pics & info....
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=400205
Today 09:11 PM

Dude you are the man!!!!

Thanks you very much. Thank you thank you thank you!!!
No speed wabbels, turns on a dime in my culdesac, no clearance issues.


I still need to deal with the ride hight, but at least it is driveable.

Again dose HD springs change the ride hight?

Thanks you very much again,
Mike

[gringoloco]

Originally Posted by tallic68

...I still need to deal with the ride height...

Have you tried re-installing the stock springs?

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by gringoloco

Have you tried re-installing the stock springs?

x2. And get the alignment re-checked. The tie-rods are in a different location so the settings will be different. Your alignment guy might do it for free since he didn't notice things were not installed properly when doing the alignment. It's worth checking into...

[tallic68]

Unfortnetly the front coil springs were the only part that got tossed some how. Or i would have reinstalled them by now. But I called the guy with the Donnor truck. When I got the parts he said to come get the parts quick because he was going to get rid of the trucks he had. But he still has them and i'm going out today to get the spring off the truck that I got the spindles off of.

I'll check with the alignment shop. Thanks
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Thanks a lot again,
Mike
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