cant get timing below 60 advanced

[68black_betty]

just changed out head gaskets and manifold gasket on my 454, took awhile to get her to keep running but when we finally did we couldnt get the idle below 1500 without dieing and cant get the timing below 60 degrees of advance without it dieing, does that sound like maybe the head or manifold gaskets are bad or would it have something to do with the valve adjustment

[into69z]

are you sure you have the distributor in the correct location? To double check, bring the motor to top dead center and check where the rotor is pointing-if it's pointing at the #1 spark plug wire terminal on the cap then you probaly have the dist. in correctly. How many turns did you you to set the valves? zdouble check your plug wires did you cross 4&6? follow each one to the plug (I done this before and I swore they were right the first time only to find out I had one crossed) Good luck

[Lee H]

This is not a gasket issue. Since you only replaced the the head and intake gaskets I'm betting an incorrectly installed distributor. That's with the assumption it was running correctly before you did the gasket change, maybe I should be asking why you changed those gaskets.

[QKENUF4U]

i cant see it running at all being that far off timing wise and im thinking if it was that far off on the dist. that it would be popping and banging around etc.. kinda sounds like the harmonic balancer ring turned/twisted/spun and its not giving you a real reading....

but def. worth double checking youre on TDC etc....

[chopnchaneled]

Originally Posted by Lee H

This is not a gasket issue. Since you only replaced the the head and intake gaskets I'm betting an incorrectly installed distributor. That's with the assumption it was running correctly before you did the gasket change, maybe I should be asking why you changed those gaskets.

Only thing i can think of is why myself?

[Shaky]

Originally Posted by QKENUF4U

i cant see it running at all being that far off timing wise and im thinking if it was that far off on the dist. that it would be popping and banging around etc.. kinda sounds like the harmonic balancer ring turned/twisted/spun and its not giving you a real reading....

but def. worth double checking youre on TDC etc....

I had this happen on a 292 - outer ring spun relative to the inner.

[elf w/capital T]

take out your dizzy, make sure your top dead center and reinstall it and make sure your firing orders correct, i had to learn the hard way my first time

[60ratrod]

i'm with everyone here that says 180* out. when my buddy and i did the hei swap on my 72, he stabbed the dizzy and swore that it was right. couldn't get it to idle right for the life of us. so i decided to double check where the dizzy was and sure enough it was 180* out. and its a good possibility that the ring did slip. once you get it to true tdc, verify it with the tab and the mark on the balancer and remark as needed

[70shortfleet]

Originally Posted by 68black_betty

just changed out head gaskets and manifold gasket on my 454, took awhile to get her to keep running but when we finally did we couldnt get the idle below 1500 without dieing and cant get the timing below 60 degrees of advance without it dieing, does that sound like maybe the head or manifold gaskets are bad or would it have something to do with the valve adjustment

Just replaced my worn out 402 BB with another rebuilt 402 with 3000 miles on it. Got it running yesterday with the exact same results as 68black_ betty. How can you tell if you have a harmonic balancer that has spun and if it has spun how do you know when it is at true TDC?

[60ratrod]

for true tdc you are going to need a piston stop. all it does is stops the piston from going any further up. and both the intake and exhaust valves will need to be shut and it will need to be on the compression stroke. you can check this by either pulling the valve cover and watching the rocker arms, or putting your finger over the #1 spark plug hole and turn the motor by the crank bolt until the pressure either blows your finger off the hole or blows by your finger all together. once it starts to do this you are going to want to install the piston stop. once you get the motor to true tdc then you are going to check the ring on the balancer and see where the mark on the balancer is in relation to 0 on the timing tab. if it has moved, which almost all old balancers will have, just take some brightly colored paint or white out and make as straight as possible mark where 0 is and that will be your tdc.

[OhOneWS6]

How are you coming up with 60*? Do you have a dial back light? Are you using timing tape? The timing marks on a standard balancer and timing tab do not go any where near 60*.

A piston stop is going to stop the piston before TDC. If the stop is out far enough for the piston to get to TDC it will never stop the piston. You need to install the piston stop and rotate the crank until is stops. Note what degree BTDC the balancer mark lines up with. Now rotate the crank the opposite direction until it stops. You should be the same number of degrees ATDC This will indicate that the balancer mark is correct. If you are more degrees one way and fewer degrees the other you balancer has slipped.

Another option is to install the piston stop and rotate one direction until it stops and mark where TDC on the timing tab lines up on the balancer. Now rotate the opposite direction and mark where TDC lines up on the balancer. Measure the distance from each of the marks you made to the engraved mark on the balancer. If the engraved mark on the balancer is exactly in the middle of the marks you made, the balancer is OK. If it is to one side or the other it has slipped.

The balancer does not care if you are on the compression or the exhaust stroke. You do not need to determine that to determine if the balancer has slipped. You do need to know what stroke it is on to drop the distributer.

The other thought I had is that you were on the wrong plug wire. If you were on the number 8 wire that would be 45* after number one. 45* + 15* initial timing would look like 60* on the balancer.

[68black_betty]

i was using a timing light, im pretty sure the it was rotatd 180, and it was a there was a vaccuum leak, sprayed some starter fluid around the intake and sure enough it revved up, so im replacing the intake gasket again, and im gonna double check the dizzy, even though with everyone sayin so im pretty syure i might be 180 out

[The Big Green]

Where did the intake gasket have the leak? Lots do this without knowing, maybe you know this but I'll say it anyways, only use the two intake gaskets on the head, toss the rubber seals that go on the block and use a bead on sylicone. If you tossed them disreguard what I said.
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[68black_betty]

basically around the whole thing, what im bout to do is throw the new gasket on then just run some rtv around the whole manifold just for added measure

[fastwillie 696969]

Originally Posted by 68black_betty

basically around the whole thing, what im bout to do is throw the new gasket on then just run some rtv around the whole manifold just for added measure

just do the back and front galley dont need to seal around the side the gasket will form in ,nice bead from one corner to the next is all you need

[60ratrod]

rtv on the gaskets them selves is a good way to guarantee a vacuum leak. about 97% of all rtv sealants out there aren't compatable with fuel and will leak due to the fuel breaking down the rtv.

[OJ1988]

When it cones to rtv, less is usually better!
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[60ratrod]

the only places that i use rtv when it comes to intakes is at the corners where the rubber end seals and the intake gaskets meet. but then again i'm one of the very few that actually uses the rubber end seals

[68black_betty]

a buddy of mine just told me to put the red rtv high temp silicone around each intake port before putting the manifold on does that sound like it would work or do you think there would still be a vaccuum leak

[fastwillie 696969]

Originally Posted by 68black_betty

a buddy of mine just told me to put the red rtv high temp silicone around each intake port before putting the manifold on does that sound like it would work or do you think there would still be a vaccuum leak

no it makes a mess and the gasket will seal its the corners that needs red rtv hi temp 1/4 inch bead thats it

[88fordf150]

Make sure you have the correct thickness of gaskets, if that block has been decked before it could have changed depending on how much they have machined off.