What would you build?

[thirdstreettito]

So, eventually(months and months away)I want to give my 88 4x4 burb more hp and MPG's. It has to get at least 12mpg. If you had $3500 for just the engine what would you build? Twin turbo 5.3? Turbo TBI 350? Tell me your ideas.

Personally, Im leaning towards a twin turbo 5.3 with an NV4500 behind it, or a twin turbo TBI SBC/NV4500.

Thanks, Bradley

[turbostang7]

personaly for mpg and power i would swap in a duramax, for 3500 you can get the whole setup to do it! if you are dead set on a gasser the 5.3 would be fun to build. i wouldn't even try the tbi turbo build where the 5.3 is easier to tune and build than the tbi would be.

[thirdstreettito]

Thanks, I've researched the Dmax swap... $3-7K for just the engine/ECU, then you need a trans/t-case, then I would need to swap at least my rear axle ot support the power, then on top of that I would need a whole new gauge set. You're looking at just under $10k if you find good prices. If you have an absurd amount of luck you can do it for $3500...

[turbostang7]

you can find a wrecked donor truck that was rolled or something like that and pick it up for 3500 and everything is there. you can even use the rear from the donor. i bought my duramax wrecked and it wasn't bad, picked it up for 6k. fixed it and only have 8800 in the whole truck now

[thirdstreettito]

Yeah, but that's a lot more in-depth that an engine/tranny swap. Thanks though.

[72freak]

I thought you were PRO 6.2 /6.5???? Why not build one of those?

[thirdstreettito]

I am, but this is already a gasser, so I'll just keep it gasser. Plus, I still have my dad's 83 I can play with.

[Marv D]

I agree changing a burb to a duramax is a COOL frickin idea, but all the nickle and dime stuff to make the change will eat a $3500 budget big time.

I know turbo tech has come a long ways, but for daily driver, workhorse power i don't think it's worth the investiment. Again the turbo setup, plumbing, wastgate, blowthrough carb,, not worth it for workable power IMO. There great above 3000 in most applications., But a 3ton burb... I don't see it as a 'great' idea.

The LS motor is your best bet IMO. Power, reliability, and if your feeling froggy they have the power and rpm capability. AND you can buy a complete low milage 5.3 for around $3k with the computer.

A 6.0 is TOUGH on fuel especially in a 6000 pound chassis, but working torque will give you everything you want I think. I doubt you can get into one for the budget tho.

[thirdstreettito]

Originally Posted by Marv D

I agree changing a burb to a duramax is a COOL frickin idea, but all the nickle and dime stuff to make the change will eat a $3500 budget big time.

I know turbo tech has come a long ways, but for daily driver, workhorse power i don't think it's worth the investiment. Again the turbo setup, plumbing, wastgate, blowthrough carb,, not worth it for workable power IMO. There great above 3000 in most applications., But a 3ton burb... I don't see it as a 'great' idea.

The LS motor is your best bet IMO. Power, reliability, and if your feeling froggy they have the power and rpm capability. AND you can buy a complete low milage 5.3 for around $3k with the computer.

A 6.0 is TOUGH on fuel especially in a 6000 pound chassis, but working torque will give you everything you want I think. I doubt you can get into one for the budget tho.

I will NOT do a carb setup. Terrible mileage because you cant get a blow-thru with small secondaries as far as I know.

What makes you think turbo wouldn't be good for a DD/Workhorse?

$3K for a low mileage 5.3? Is it gold plated? You can get them on ebay for $350 with 100K on them.

Hot Rod Mag did a 600hp single turbo 5.3 for $3200. Where as the same hp with a 6.0 would be $4500+. Plus the 6.0 is a hog on gas, not sure on that though, I havent looked into the 6.0.

More input appreciated from everyone.

[turbostang7]

the 3200 did that include the harness, fuel pump, motor mounts, all hoses, ecm, trans and related wireing etc? what kind of turbo's were used? a turboed suburban for daily driving can be done but tuning would have to be spot on. by the time you add all that up the 3500 budget is gone quick! every engine swap i have done what you think its going to cost usually double it and thats what it will realy cost. your best bet in any swap is to buy the wrecked vehicle you are swapping out of then you will have all that at your disposal, some custom stuff will have to be purchased but the majority will be there. plus you can part out the rest and sometimes come out even with the purchase!

[Marv D]

I'm going to assume the turbostang has the experience to speak intelligently about the turbo in a heavy vehicle as a daily driver. That's something I can't do and hope he elaborates a bit on what it's going to take. I have very little hands on experience with any forced induction, but have helped just a bit on a PSCA turbo car. Big difference between pushing a 3200 pound car 180mph in the quarter than pushing a 6000 pound burb around the streets with a pair of small snails stuffed under the hood. Some of the rules apply for sure, but DD is a whole different game.

Yeah I think we have a significant difference of opinion in the term "low mileage". I'm thinking 10,000 to 20,000 or a $3500 LS crate motor,, Myself I wouldn't waste my time with anything nearing 100,000. Sure these motors go 150-175 easily,, but efficiency, mileage and oil consumption goes up expotentially after 100k. If maintained properly the motor will outlive the seals and gaskets!! Efficiency and power falls on it's face around 100, 120k typically because of injectors are shot. To replace them is about a grand as I understand it . Add reconditioning the heads, bore hone,, gaskets,, it adds up FAST!!

[thirdstreettito]

Originally Posted by turbostang7

the 3200 did that include the harness, fuel pump, motor mounts, all hoses, ecm, trans and related wireing etc? what kind of turbo's were used? a turboed suburban for daily driving can be done but tuning would have to be spot on. by the time you add all that up the 3500 budget is gone quick! every engine swap i have done what you think its going to cost usually double it and thats what it will realy cost. your best bet in any swap is to buy the wrecked vehicle you are swapping out of then you will have all that at your disposal, some custom stuff will have to be purchased but the majority will be there. plus you can part out the rest and sometimes come out even with the purchase!

I realize that, I hope I plan it out enough so I dont have to worry about LOTS of small things. Thanks for the input

Originally Posted by Marv D

I'm going to assume the turbostang has the experience to speak intelligently about the turbo in a heavy vehicle as a daily driver. That's something I can't do and hope he elaborates a bit on what it's going to take. I have very little hands on experience with any forced induction, but have helped just a bit on a PSCA turbo car. Big difference between pushing a 3200 pound car 180mph in the quarter than pushing a 6000 pound burb around the streets with a pair of small snails stuffed under the hood. Some of the rules apply for sure, but DD is a whole different game.

Yeah I think we have a significant difference of opinion in the term "low mileage". I'm thinking 10,000 to 20,000 or a $3500 LS crate motor,, Myself I wouldn't waste my time with anything nearing 100,000. Sure these motors go 150-175 easily,, but efficiency, mileage and oil consumption goes up expotentially after 100k. If maintained properly the motor will outlive the seals and gaskets!! Efficiency and power falls on it's face around 100, 120k typically because of injectors are shot. To replace them is about a grand as I understand it . Add reconditioning the heads, bore hone,, gaskets,, it adds up FAST!!

Personally, if I were going to spend $3500 on a used engine, I would get a duramax. That's why I wouldn't get one, I want this truck to stay gas. Also, I think you're prices are a bit off, especially because I would be doing the work myself. Thanks

More input appreciated

[BigDan3131]

Suburban...gas mileage and high performance on a 3500 dollar budget. Thank you I need a good laugh.

[turbostang7]

to turbo a daily driver car there are many variables that you need to think about, first off the turbo size, all depends on what you are doing with the vehicle, if you want more/less lag. more will give you great top end, less will give you great get up and go.
on a 5.3L i would think that two borg warner t3/t4 hybrid turbos would be a happy compromise. after you put forced induction in you will need larger injectors, and i would recomend an intercooler. better ignition is a must as well because you will blow the spark out on stock stuff. spark plugs is a guessing game untill you find one that burns good for your setup. a fuel pump upgrade is a good idea too.
if you aren't going to upgrade any internals i would not go above 5psi to be safe.
tunning is fairly simple thats why i said that the ls would be your best bet because you can use efilive and custom tune it through your laptop but there are companys that sell standalone ecm's that will run tbi motors too such as diyautotune.com.
for putting around town you want your af ratio at or around 14:1 just like most engines but under boost you want to make it richer like around 11:1 you just have to mess around with the fuel tables to make this happen. plus timing needs to be adjusted as it will detonate easier under boost.

to sum it up if you pick up a 5.3 100k motor for around 500-750 ish range, then you have to buy the turbos, add another $800 (DO NOT BUY CHEAP CHINA EBAY TURBOS HERE THEY WILL EXPLODE!!!) then the pipeing that is needed, $200 intercooler $150 or so, injectors and ignition $500+, fuel pump $300, efilive module $750, laptop (if you don't have one) $700+ misc that will come up with a project like this, ie hoses, fittings, air filter, fluids, spark plugs etc, i would guess close to 500+
so just in the motor you are already hitting the 3500 mark and thats not even with the engine adapters, silicone boots for the turbo's

don't get me wrong if i don't swap a dmax into my 64 it will more than likely be a twinned ls motor but don't expect mileage out of a turboed engine it will hurt it not help!

[Super73]

Go look in the LS section. There is a thread regarding "how much the swap cost you" or something like that. There are a lot of folks that have done swaps in these older vehicles and could really help you with educated guess on your out going expense.

[thirdstreettito]

Thanks guys, I was just talking Harris Performance(TBI Chips)and he said I would have to convert the ECU to 2 bar, which is very indepth. So if I want good power with a turbo or s/c it wont be with TBI. I was looking at 6.0's, but damn they are expensive and would get me worse mileage than I already get. I think my best bet is to turbo a 5.3, that seems to be the only way to keep my mileage and get more power.

I've seen a lot of people with all different vehicles running a 5.3 with a T70 turbo, they have a little lag, but get great power. I dont do much towing, mostly just driving around down and some highway. I'll keep doing my research.

[Super73]

In order for you to go turbo on an LS, you should go minimally ith a 2 bar program. If you are planin on a 70mm and anything more than 13-14psi, you should go 3 bar. HP tuners can modify a stock tune to be either 2/3bar speed density or 2/3bar with a MAF option. Either way, you need it. MAP only goes to 105kpa in a stock tune which will not give you the full resolution you will need to tune properly. Any decent tuner will set you up with that via HP tuners or EFI live.

Now, with your $3,500 budget, did you incorporate the custom tune $500-$600 or the hardware needed for you to do it yourself, $600 for HP tuners + $150-$200 for a wide band.

Did you consider the fuel system you are going to need? A good pump or dual pump option is going to put you $300-$400 deep, not to mention lines, filters ect. You can't run that kind of power through a stock line. Then you need to deal with a regulator, I suggest an Aeromotive that uses a reference for boost to raise fuel pressure as boost goes up.

There is a lot to think about. Injectors, piping, intercooler, filter system, fuel system, possible meth kit, correct converter.

Building something cheaply is great, if you have the budget to keep fixing it.

[thirdstreettito]

Thanks, I have decided to keep it less complicated and expensive for now lol. After talking with Brian at Harris Performance, I have it figured out. I'll buy a Vortec 350(96-02) and rebuild it to a 383, buy a 46mm TBI unit, vortec TBI intake manifold, and a few other things. It should make 300-350hp(I think) and 400ft/lbs of torque. It should come out at around $2000 or so, and I wont have to do any converting or anything.

What do you guys think? Oh, and it should gain me some mileage he says, he is after all a TBI guy, he would know.

[Super73]

I don't know much about TBI's just have heard hurror stories of bad TBI tuning, people go missing or never have the time to finish a tune ect. Then you are left with a vehicle that runs like poop.

You can find 6.0's that are in need of a rebuild fairly cheaply. It doesn't cost much to rebuild one and finding a used set of ported heads is easy to do these days. Put a small cam in it, buy HPtuners+wideband and spend some time learning to tune it yourself. In the long run it will be much cheaper then going to someone everytime you need to make a minor change.

[leftcoast66]

Originally Posted by Super73

You can find 6.0's that are in need of a rebuild fairly cheaply.

Any suggestions on where to start looking for a 6.0?

[thirdstreettito]

Ebay.

Thanks Super73

[tripleD]

how about building a mud drag truck!! thats what i did !

[thirdstreettito]

Maybe one day.......

[Marv D]

Originally Posted by tripleD

how about building a mud drag truck!! thats what i did !

That is absolutely GEORGOUS!!!!!!!!!!! Nice job tripleD!!!

[noonzor]

AGREED!! dont wanna thread jack but can we get some specs? or pm me a build thread?