Framing up the flatbed

[FFredo]

I used 2X4" square tubing attached to 1 1/2 X 3 formed closed C-Channel cross sills. The perimeter is welded in at 3X4' above the sills to allow for the wood floor to sit level with the top of the outter frame. It's a little heavy but that's as small as I could go to still be able to use the truck as I designed it. I want to be able to carry my harley's if the need arises. Anyway here are a cpl of pics showing the proccess.

Cross sills are held in place with 3/8th bolts, lock washers and nylock nuts.





Then I cut the 2X4 to the right sized and welded it to the perimeter of the frame. I cut around the wheels to keep it as low as possible.





I still have a little welding to do today like weld in the caps for the open ends on the 2X4s. I'll order up the wheel wells/tubs on Monday, once I get those in I'll decide on the wood for the floor and side gates. Also I still need to source the tailights I want to inset into the tubbing. All in all a good productive saturday.

[Dan in Pasadena]

Fredo,
It looks fantastic, congrats.

Do you plan on using round top or flat top wheel wells? Are both available...somewhere?

I notice behind the cab where you welded the 2x4 perimeter to the cross sill you used a couple inches of weld on about one foot centers. You may want to use a good seam sealer in between those welds as water is going to run down between those two members and give you rust troubles or at least staining on your driveway.

How do you plan to mount the sides and will they be removable? Solid sided or "slats"

[FFredo]

Hey Dan, yes I'll be sealing up the seams on the forward and rearmost 2X4s. I have decided to go with removable gates. I'll add pockets for the gate stakes to drop into. I'm going with round top wheel wells/ fenders. I think the round will match the curves of the truck body better, nothing else is square on the truck. I can get fenders from my local trailer supply house. Or if need be I can make my own. All of that will have to wait until next week though as I have to travel for work tomorow and will not be back till weds.

[mr48chev]

That looks like it is going to be one solid bed that can haul something when you get done.

[Kim57]

Looking good FFredo.
Kim

[Russell Ashley]

Bed is coming along nicely. Looks like it will be sturdy enough to haul more than a motorcycle, LOL. I'm likeing the Pontiac too, is that yours?

[coachie]

Hey FFredo, any updated pics? I'm thinking about making my 59 a flatbed, and would like to see how yours turned out...

[G&R's57GMC]

Great job FFredo.

You no longer have a pickup and are now subject to a bunch of commercial truck reg's.

BTW you better check, but with the flatbed you will have to stop at the truck scales every time you come across one in California. I hear they will cite you big $$ if you blow past.

You may also be required to get your truck reweighed for the DMV so they can adjust your weight fee. Hummm .... better check that out too before you get to a state weigh station.

I personally think 3/4 ton and under should be considered non commercial and not subject to weight fees and commercial plates, BUT NO ! The state came up with the laws when trucks were trucks and used commercially. They got a windfall profit on the non commercial use of pickups and vans over the last 5 decades.

[shok]

That comment made me do some quick googling and I found this link:
http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/traffops/tr...s/stopping.htm
What is the process for the truck weigh stations on the side of the 101? Is it just drive in and drive thru really slowly and if they don't stop you then you are free to go?
Posted via Mobile Device

[Russell Ashley]

"BTW you better check, but with the flatbed you will have to stop at the truck scales every time you come across one in California. I hear they will cite you big $$ if you blow past."

Two years ago I was driving a rental flatbed that was obviously not overloaded. I wasn't thinking and drove past a weigh sation on I85 in south Georgia. It cost me $350. The officer said "Haven't you heard, we have a revenue shortage. We're giving tickets for anything now."

[mknittle]

Originally Posted by Russell Ashley

"BTW you better check, but with the flatbed you will have to stop at the truck scales every time you come across one in California. I hear they will cite you big $$ if you blow past."

Two years ago I was driving a rental flatbed that was obviously not overloaded. I wasn't thinking and drove past a weigh sation on I85 in south Georgia. It cost me $350. The officer said "Haven't you heard, we have a revenue shortage. We're giving tickets for anything now."

No, he dosen't It starts at 1 ton but isn't enforced unless sonthimd is way out of whack
But big trucks are the oppisite,I have been ticketed for non required lights.

[mknittle]

Originally Posted by G&R's57GMC

Great job FFredo.

You no longer have a pickup and are now subject to a bunch of commercial truck reg's.

BTW you better check, but with the flatbed you will have to stop at the truck scales every time you come across one in California. I hear they will cite you big $$ if you blow past.

You may also be required to get your truck reweighed for the DMV so they can adjust your weight fee. Hummm .... better check that out too before you get to a state weigh station.

I personally think 3/4 ton and under should be considered non commercial and not subject to weight fees and commercial plates, BUT NO ! The state came up with the laws when trucks were trucks and used commercially. They got a windfall profit on the non commercial use of pickups and vans over the last 5 decades.

They won't bother him.

[G&R's57GMC]

So I went to the California Vehicle Code online and culled out this info ....

V C Section 259 Collector Motor Vehicles

Collector Motor Vehicles

259. "Collector motor vehicle" means a motor vehicle owned by a collector, as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 5051, and the motor vehicle is used primarily in shows, parades, charitable functions, and historical exhibitions for display, maintenance, and preservation, and is not used primarily for transportation.

Added Sec. 1, Ch. 107, Stats. 2004. Effective January 1, 2005.


V C Section 260 Commercial Vehicle

Commercial Vehicle

260. (a) A "commercial vehicle" is a motor vehicle of a type required to be registered under this code used or maintained for the transportation of persons for hire, compensation, or profit or designed, used, or maintained primarily for the transportation of property.

(b) Passenger vehicles and house cars that are not used for the transportation of persons for hire, compensation, or profit are not commercial vehicles. This subdivision shall not apply to Chapter 4 (commencing with Section 6700) of Division 3.

(c) Any vanpool vehicle is not a commercial vehicle.

(d) The definition of a commercial vehicle in this section does not apply to Chapter 7 (commencing with Section 15200) of Division 6.

Amended Sec. 11, Ch. 861, Stats. 2000. Effective September 28, 2000. Operative December 31, 2001.
Amended Sec. 1, Ch. 222, Stats. 2002. Effective January 1, 2003.


V C Section 471 Pickup Truck

Pickup Truck

471. A "pickup truck" is a motor truck with a manufacturer's gross vehicle weight rating of less than 11,500 pounds, an unladen weight of less than 8,001 pounds, and which is equipped with an open box-type bed not exceeding 9 feet in length. "Pickup truck" does not include a motor vehicle otherwise meeting the above definition, that is equipped with a bed-mounted storage compartment unit commonly called a "utility body."

Added Ch. 13, Stats. 1991. Effective February 13, 1991.
Amended Ch. 928, Stats. 1991. Effective October 14, 1991.
Amended Sec. 8, Ch. 652, Stats. 1997. Effective January 1, 1998.


V C Section 410 Motor Truck

Motor Truck

410. A "motor truck" or "motortruck" is a motor vehicle designed, used, or maintained primarily for the transportation of property.

Amended Ch. 272, Stats. 1993. Effective August 2, 1993.


V C Section 465 Passenger Vehicle

Passenger Vehicle

465. A "passenger vehicle" is any motor vehicle, other than a motortruck, truck tractor, or a bus, as defined in Section 233 , and used or maintained for the transportation of persons. The term "passenger vehicle" shall include a housecar.

Amended Sec. 1, Ch. 1008, Stats. 1999. Effective January 1, 2000.


V C Section 34710 Passenger Vehicle Defined

Passenger Vehicle Defined

34710. As used in this division, "passenger vehicle" means any motor vehicle defined in Section 465, except any of the following motor vehicles:

(a) Motorcycles.

(b) Housecars.

(c) Specially constructed vehicles.

(d) Motor vehicles equipped with four-wheel drive.

(e) Motor vehicles constructed on a truck chassis.

(f) Motor vehicles operated for hire, compensation, or profit.

(g) Makes of motor vehicles of a model year manufactured or sold in California in quantities of less than 2,000 units for each such model year.

(h) Motor vehicles designed and constructed by the manufacturer of such vehicles, for off-highway use, as determined by the Department of Motor Vehicles.

Amended Ch. 635, Stats. 1974. Effective January 1, 1975.


V C Section 9400 Weight Fees for Commercial Motor Vehicles with Declared Gross Vehicle Weight 10,000 lbs or Less

Weight Fees for Commercial Motor Vehicles with Declared Gross Vehicle Weight 10,000 lbs. or Less

9400. Except as provided in Section 9400.1, and in addition to any other registration fee, there shall be paid the fees set forth in this section for the registration of any commercial motor vehicle that operates with unladen weight. Weight fees for pickup trucks are calculated under this section. Whenever a camper is temporarily attached to a motor vehicle designed to transport property, the motor vehicle shall be subject to the fees imposed by this section. The camper shall be deemed to be a load, and fees imposed by this section upon the motor vehicle shall be based upon the unladen weight of the motor vehicle, exclusive of the camper.

[Table shows the weight fee for non-electric powered commercial motor vehicle with declared gross vehicle weight of 10,00 pounds or less equipped with no more than two axles.] *
Unladen Weight Fee
Less than 3,000 lbs. $ 8
3,000 lbs. to and including 4,000 lbs. 24
4,001 lbs. to and including 5,000 lbs. 80
5,001 lbs. to and including 6,000 lbs. 154
6,001 lbs. to and including 7,000 lbs. 204
7,001 lbs. to and including 8,000 lbs. 257
8,001 lbs. to and including 9,000 lbs. 308
9,001 lbs. to and including 10,000 lbs. 360



V C Section 9406 Alterations or Additions to Vehicles

Alterations or Additions to Vehicles

9406. Alterations or additions to registered vehicles for which fees have been paid under Section 9400 or 9400.1 placing the vehicles in weight fee classifications under Section 9400 or 9400.1 greater than the weight fees previously paid shall be reported to the department and at the same time the difference between the weight fee previously paid, reduced as provided in Section 9407, and the greater weight fee, reduced as provided in Section 9407, shall be paid to the department upon the operation of the vehicles in the greater weight fee classification under Section 9400 or 9400.1.

Amended Sec. 51, Ch. 861, Stats. 2000. Effective September 29, 2000. Operative December 31, 2001.


Its enough to make your head spin

I just wonder if one could get out of paying a weight fee given the definitions of what a pick up is, what a commercial vehicle is and what a passenger vehicle is ? After all these are just toys for most of us.

[G&R's57GMC]

Who Must Stop at Scales?

California's "Commercial Vehicle Enforcement Facilities" are commonly called weigh stations or truck scales. These facilities are operated by the California Highway Patrol (CHP), not by Caltrans. However, Caltrans receives many inquiries about weigh stations. This page is designed to answer some of those questions. The links provide access to the on-line California Vehicle Code (CVC).

CVC Section 2813 outlines who must stop at weigh stations and inspection stations:

2813. Every driver of a commercial vehicle shall stop and submit the vehicle to an inspection of the size, weight, equipment, and smoke emissions of the vehicle at any location where members of the California Highway Patrol are conducting tests and inspections of commercial vehicles and when signs are displayed requiring the stop. Every driver who fails or refuses to stop and submit the vehicle to an inspection when signs are displayed requiring that stop is guilty of a misdemeanor.

CVC Section 260 defines "commercial vehicle" :

260. (a) A "commercial vehicle" is a motor vehicle of a type required to be registered under this code used or maintained for the transportation of persons for hire, compensation, or profit or designed, used, or maintained primarily for the transportation of property.
(b) Passenger vehicles which are not used for the transportation of persons for hire, compensation, or profit and housecars are not commercial vehicles. ...
(c) Any vanpool vehicle is not a commercial vehicle.
(d) ...

CVC Section 410 defines a "motor truck" :

410. A "motor truck" or "motortruck" is a motor vehicle designed, used, or maintained primarily for the transportation of property.

CVC Section 471 defines "pickup truck" :

471. A "pickup truck" is a motor truck with a manufacturer's gross vehicle weight rating of less than 11,500 pounds, an unladen weight of less than 8,001 pounds, and which is equipped with an open box-type bed not exceeding 9 feet in length. "Pickup truck" does not include a motor vehicle otherwise meeting the above definition, that is equipped with a bed-mounted storage compartment unit commonly called a "utility body."

DO THESE VEHICLES HAVE TO STOP AT THE SCALES?

PICKUP -- It depends on the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR).

GVWR under 11,500 pounds -- NO.
GVWR 11,500 pounds or more -- YES.

Discussion: According to CVC Section 471, pickups are a motor truck by definition, which is required to stop at the scales per CVC Section 2813. However, some California weigh stations have signs stating: "No Pickups." So, if a vehicle meet the definition of pickup in CVC Section 471, it is not required to stop at the scales because of the signs stating: "No Pickups." If the pickup has a GVWR of 11,500 pounds or more, or the pickup bed has been removed and a utility body or flat bed has been mounted, then it no longer meets the definition of pickup in CVC Section 471; it is then a "motor truck" under CVC Section 410 and required to stop at the weigh stations.

PICKUP WITH CAMPER SHELL -- NO

Discussion: It can also display passenger vehicle plates, as long as the cargo in the bed is not being hauled for compensation.

PICKUP WITH CAB / CREW CAB WITH BOX-TYPE BED -- YES

Discussion: The utility or box bed has to enter weigh stations.

RENTAL TRUCK -- YES

Discussion: Rental trucks can be a U-Haul, Ryder, Sears, Budget, Enterprise, etc. A rental truck is a motor truck, according to CVC Section 410, and must stop at the weigh stations. Most scale facilities make this very clear with signs reminding drivers: "All Daily Rental/Moving Trucks Must Stop At Scales When Open." However, if the rental truck is a pick up, it does not necessarily have to stop (see "Pick Up " section above). If the rental truck is a flat bed or utitility bed, then YES, it does have to stop.

CARGO VAN -- It depends on the load and the use. Technically, they are a motor truck according to CVC Section 410 and, therefore, required to stop at the weigh stations.

Discussion: Yes, technically a cargo van is a motor truck according to CVC Section 410 and, therefore, required to stop at the scales.

STILL NOT SURE IF YOU NEED TO STOP?

For more information re. who must stop at the scales, contact the California Highway Patrol (CHP) as follows:

PHONE CHP HQ: CHP Commercial Vehicle Section at (916) 843-3400.

CONTACT CHP HQ ON-LINE: Start at their main website at: http://www.chp.ca.gov. Scroll to the bottom to the blue bar and click on the link "Contact Us." Then click on the link at the 6th bullet that says "For Questions or Comments please click here."

PHONE WEIGH STATION: If you know which weigh station you will be passing, you may call the facility directly. See the scale facility list for phone numbers. The list will open in Excel.

CONTACTS (For truck size and weight questions, not for "stopping at the scales.")

Caltrans Legal Truck Size & Weight Work Group
Casey Robb
Manuel Fonseca

Return to the Caltrans "Office of Truck Services" page.

Revised 10/19/11.

[G&R's57GMC]

FFredo, It looks like you'll be stopping at weigh stations with that FlatBed

It maybe a wash on weight between the PU bed and Flat bed for your weight fee. Your most likely under 4001# either way.

[G&R's57GMC]

Years ago I had thought of turning my '56 Chevy PU into a Flat Bed tandem axle phantom dually.

Boy that would have been FUN !

Limited to 55 mph and weigh stations, But I have never been near to a weigh station in the last 20 years and rarely go over 60 mph with it anyway

Still would be Cool though

[mknittle]

[QUOTE=G&R's57GMC;5437778]Who Must Stop at Scales?

California's "Commercial Vehicle Enforcement Facilities" are commonly called weigh stations or truck scales. These facilities are operated by the California Highway Patrol (CHP), not by Caltrans. However, Caltrans receives many inquiries about weigh stations. This page is designed to answer some of those questions. The links provide access to the on-line California Vehicle Code (CVC).

CVC Section 2813 outlines who must stop at weigh stations and inspection stations:

2813. Every driver of a commercial vehicle shall stop and submit the vehicle to an inspection of the size, weight, equipment, and smoke emissions of the vehicle at any location where members of the California Highway Patrol are conducting tests and inspections of commercial vehicles and when signs are displayed requiring the stop. Every driver who fails or refuses to stop and submit the vehicle to an inspection when signs are displayed requiring that stop is guilty of a misdemeanor.

CVC Section 260 defines "commercial vehicle" :

260. (a) A "commercial vehicle" is a motor vehicle of a type required to be registered under this code used or maintained for the transportation of persons for hire, compensation, or profit or designed, used, or maintained primarily for the transportation of property.
(b) Passenger vehicles which are not used for the transportation of persons for hire, compensation, or profit and housecars are not commercial vehicles. ...
(c) Any vanpool vehicle is not a commercial vehicle.
(d) ...

CVC Section 410 defines a "motor truck" :

410. A "motor truck" or "motortruck" is a motor vehicle designed, used, or maintained primarily for the transportation of property.

CVC Section 471 defines "pickup truck" :

471. A "pickup truck" is a motor truck with a manufacturer's gross vehicle weight rating of less than 11,500 pounds, an unladen weight of less than 8,001 pounds, and which is equipped with an open box-type bed not exceeding 9 feet in length. "Pickup truck" does not include a motor vehicle otherwise meeting the above definition, that is equipped with a bed-mounted storage compartment unit commonly called a "utility body."

DO THESE VEHICLES HAVE TO STOP AT THE SCALES?

PICKUP -- It depends on the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR).

GVWR under 11,500 pounds -- NO.
GVWR 11,500 pounds or more -- YES.

Discussion: According to CVC Section 471, pickups are a motor truck by definition, which is required to stop at the scales per CVC Section 2813. However, some California weigh stations have signs stating: "No Pickups." So, if a vehicle meet the definition of pickup in CVC Section 471, it is not required to stop at the scales because of the signs stating: "No Pickups." If the pickup has a GVWR of 11,500 pounds or more, or the pickup bed has been removed and a utility body or flat bed has been mounted, then it no longer meets the definition of pickup in CVC Section 471; it is then a "motor truck" under CVC Section 410 and required to stop at the weigh stations.

PICKUP WITH CAMPER SHELL -- NO

Discussion: It can also display passenger vehicle plates, as long as the cargo in the bed is not being hauled for compensation.

PICKUP WITH CAB / CREW CAB WITH BOX-TYPE BED -- YES

Discussion: The utility or box bed has to enter weigh stations.

RENTAL TRUCK -- YES

Discussion: Rental trucks can be a U-Haul, Ryder, Sears, Budget, Enterprise, etc. A rental truck is a motor truck, according to CVC Section 410, and must stop at the weigh stations. Most scale facilities make this very clear with signs reminding drivers: "All Daily Rental/Moving Trucks Must Stop At Scales When Open." However, if the rental truck is a pick up, it does not necessarily have to stop (see "Pick Up " section above). If the rental truck is a flat bed or utitility bed, then YES, it does have to stop.

CARGO VAN -- It depends on the load and the use. Technically, they are a motor truck according to CVC Section 410 and, therefore, required to stop at the weigh stations.

Discussion: Yes, technically a cargo van is a motor truck according to CVC Section 410 and, therefore, required to stop at the scales.

STILL NOT SURE IF YOU NEED TO STOP?

For more information re. who must stop at the scales, contact the California Highway Patrol (CHP) as follows:

PHONE CHP HQ: CHP Commercial Vehicle Section at (916) 843-3400.

CONTACT CHP HQ ON-LINE: Start at their main website at: http://www.chp.ca.gov. Scroll to the bottom to the blue bar and click on the link "Contact Us." Then click on the link at the 6th bullet that says "For Questions or Comments please click here."

PHONE WEIGH STATION: If you know which weigh station you will be passing, you may call the facility directly. See the scale facility list for phone numbers. The list will open in Excel.

CONTACTS (For truck size and weight questions, not for "stopping at the scales.")

Caltrans Legal Truck Size & Weight Work Group
Casey Robb
Manuel Fonseca

Return to the Caltrans "Office of Truck Services" page.

Revised 10/19/11.[/QUOTE
It dosent matter if they don't enforce it!! I Am a truck driver and In 30 years I have NEVER seen a DOT officer stop a 1ton {we have 2} for running the scales.I live 10 miles from one and never have stoped or been pulled over even huling ntc 400 and N14 cummuns engines.
But what do I know after 30 years!


favorite saying: I have driven backwards more miles than most people have driven forwards!

[mknittle]

GVWR under 11,500 pounds -- NO. He is nowhere neat that!

[G&R's57GMC]

According to CVC Section 471, pickups are a motor truck by definition, which is required to stop at the scales per CVC Section 2813. However, some California weigh stations have signs stating: "No Pickups." So, if a vehicle meet the definition of pickup in CVC Section 471, it is not required to stop at the scales because of the signs stating: "No Pickups." If the pickup has a GVWR of 11,500 pounds or more, or the pickup bed has been removed and a utility body or flat bed has been mounted, then it no longer meets the definition of pickup in CVC Section 471; it is then a "motor truck" under CVC Section 410 and required to stop at the weigh stations.

The Bold print says it all , the little "or" negates the 11,500# Thats the law. Weather its enforced is up to the officer, and there are a bunch of them all over California. Up here the SB I-5 Cottonwood weigh station went on a rampage for a month and cited everything it could. So .... it can happen.

[mknittle]

I know cottonwood well.

[mknittle]

A "pickup truck" is a motor truck with a manufacturer's gross vehicle weight rating of less than 11,500 pounds, an unladen weight of less than 8,001 pounds, and which is equipped with an open box-type bed not exceeding 9 feet in length
Ok put side boards on and you are ok.

There are not going mess with him when they can ticket a big truck at $1.00 for every pound over wieght.
You can'tgo by what cottonwood does. They are always in trouble for doing somthing illegal!

[G&R's57GMC]

Most likely not going to bother him BUT you never know when they will and that could cost hard earned $$.

What the heck why not stop and say Hello ? He's not for hire so whats the worst that could happen ?

If the scales are jammed, Then what, nice break.

Heck he may not go through a scale in his daily drive.

At least this discussion has brought to light the need to stop. What one does is up to oneself.

[Pop's C-10]

Back on topic..Nice work man..

[mknittle]

Originally Posted by G&R's57GMC

Most likely not going to bother him BUT you never know when they will and that could cost hard earned $$.

What the heck why not stop and say Hello ? He's not for hire so whats the worst that could happen ?

If the scales are jammed, Then what, nice break.

Heck he may not go through a scale in his daily drive.

At least this discussion has brought to light the need to stop. What one does is up to oneself.

my dad and I still don't in ours. We have 2 and we haven't in 30 years and I have past both east and west bound almost weekly. and like I said before, I haul some pretty big partsas we own atrucking company.