Some Welding Tips for the DYI'ers

[duwem]

I know there is a tools section on this website, but I figured I would post this here for all the DIY'ers that hang out in this part of the site.

I see many different levels of welders digging through the build threads, I'm by no means an expert but I have been welding a lot for the past 10 years anything from race car tube frames to tractor plows and my dad does it for a living every day for the last 30.

I figure others with experience can add info as well. I will start some discussions.

WELD PREP:

CLEAN THE METAL! Welding over rust/paint makes a big mess and usually leads to a bad weld with little strength and penetration. This is something I do see on here and it scares me. If your going to weld on your frame, wire wheel at a minimum, sandblast is better. I usually sandblast small parts in my cabinet prior to welding even if its new metal. Gets rid of the black scale and contaminations.

DO NOT USE BRAKE CLEANER TO CLEAN PARTS YOUR GOING TO WELD. It gives off very toxic fumes that can kill you. There is an article online about someone that almost died.
I got some exposure to it once and had a hard time breathing for a day and felt sick. It luckily passed with no further problems. Use rubbing alchol or something else to clean parts.

The smaller the gap the stronger the weld, spend extra time fitting parts so you dont have burn through or weakness.

Welding is harmefull to your skin. Even a few minutes of tach welding will give you a sun burn. Wear your mask. Wear gloves (I use the thin leather welding gloves). Wear long sleeves and long pants for exended welding.



WELDERS:

Mig Welder:
Fux core welders make a hug mess, think stick welder. I believe most are farily low amperage and probably not strong enough for structural work.

I would highly recommend a mig welder, with gas. Results in much cleaner welds.

Get as high of amperage as you can afford, you will use it some day. I have a 175 and wish I had a 200.

Keep an eye out on craigslist. I picked up my Hobart 175 with a tank of gas and an extra spool of wire for $550 used. Definitely try it out before buying.

Mine runs off of 220 volt so I had to run 220 into my garage to run it. You can get 110 volt machines, but your max amperage output will be lower in most cases.

You can get stainless steel wire for a mig welder. I welded some stainless tube with stainless wire then left it in water to see if it would rust. The weld did rust over time. I believe you need a different gas (possibly straight argon) to properly weld stainless with a mig??

Tig Welder:
I tig weld 90% of what I make. I love Tig, you have so much more contol as your welding.

Tigs come in 2 types, DC or AC/DC. You dont need AC unless you plan to weld Aluminum. AC feature adds pretty significant cost to the machine.

I have a 200 amp AC/DC, but have only welded aluminum once wth it in the 3 years I have owned it. I figured I would use it eventually and since I know how to weld aluminum, I would be wanting it if I didnt have it.

Tig takes a lot of practice to master, but once you get there you can make some beautiful welds.

Tig welding is quiet and has no smoke/spatter.

Tig is a lot slower than mig, so you use more gas and more time but for me the results are worth it.

Stick Welders
I have seen people make some nice stuff with stick welders, but in my opinion they are more suited for fixing farm impliments than working on vehicles.


OTHERS PLEASE ADD TO THE DISCUSSION

[rpmerf]

subscribed!

new welder here with a 120 amp harbor freight welder. Hoping to do some welding on the truck next year(body parts, not frame). I've done some small things and seem to have the hang of it.

Auto darkening helmets are great!

[duwem]

Good point on the helmets.

My mig also came with an auto darkening. Its solar powered by the arch. For tig welding I have a nice battery one with different settings.

I dont know that I would trust my eyes to the harbor freight auto darkening helmets you get for $50 though...

[hotrod1]

Lincoln 2450! Great investment, great price.

[jimig1]

I'm liking my Eastwood 175.

[rpmerf]

I have the HF auto darkening helmet, its been fine so far. It was a bit scary wondering how long it will last....

[jimig1]

Originally Posted by rpmerf

I have the HF auto darkening helmet, its been fine so far. It was a bit scary wondering how long it will last....

I have one too and it has been fine I have had no problems with it.

[Gumby]

If you ever worked for a living [only kidding] flux core mig is the best multi use tool you can get. Good multi pass wire and it can look like tig when you know what your doing.

gas mig sounds great on paper but work outside a sealed garage or work space and the wind just blows away your shield gas, or you using so much gas to get a good weld your going broke and not getting much done.

Flux core mig is allot like stick, just the flux is on the inside, not the outside and they weld battleships with stick.

Here is my welder, always loaded with 10lb spool of flux core. Small tank of gas I bought with it 10 years ago has never been used. I use it for both business and personal use, so almost daily use. Never missed a beat.

Structural welds are no different from gas, front left shock of the wagon in background is only held on via the bottom with welds from it. [bolts ripped out of a-arm] Built custom chopper bicycles with it. Built a log splitter with it.
[small hand op kind with a 2ton bottle jack]

HF auto dark helmet too, works great.
Hf also sells the best flux core wire,
both multi pass and barium free.



only change to welder was the addition of a 8in pancake fan like out of a big office copier to keep it cool, I can weld all day and its fine.

[rpmerf]

I've always herd that the HF wire was pretty bad. I don't have any personal experience to confirm this. I plan to get some wire from a welding store and put it to the test.

BTW what amperage is that?

[docrock]

Great thread.
Built a car with a Clark Welder was OK for outside, but now I build cars in a shop.
I have a Lincoln 140 with gas and it does everything. As you said in the begining clean surfaces are key. Also plug the welder in as close as you can to the breaker with the correct size cord.
I used a HB auto darkening for a while and started getting the feeling like I was getting sunburned. Not Good so I bought a nice quality one, you only have one set of eyes try to hang on to them.
Looking at TIG Welders now, no funds but looking

[Gumby]

Ive tried all brands of wire, and always went back to HF not only cause its cheaper as the drive to my closest HF store wipes out any difference.

[hotrodrookie]

Cool thread. I don't have experience with flux core but its big time in structural. From what I hear it runs hotter then mig and as with any welding process, when done properly is very strong. As you mentioned with mig welding stainless, there are various mixtures of gasses that can be used in different mig process. Combinations of helium, CO2, and argon at various percentages will produce different results.
-Jackson Nexgen hood
-Miller Syncrowave 351
-250 Millermatic
-Lincoln sp175

[OKGMC4]

Oh yes, flux definitely runs hotter than gas. But in a no wind condition the gas will make a cleaner weld. Seems like you can't get it clean enough with flux to keep it from spattering some. Both good, just for different conditions. I use flux for the heavy steel at work 1/16 and thicker and it really burns in good. For sheet metal at home I use gas only. I use the HF helmets and don't notice a thing but I can tell you the local welding school won't allow students to use them because they aren't up to their code. If I were an 8 hour a day dedicated welder I would upgrade but for 30 minutes at a time the HF helmet seems to work.

[Russell Ashley]

I have a HF shield and I really like it. Never had any complaints about it but it's the only one I've ever used. I wonder what "codes" the welding school uses to make this determination. Now I'm curious and would like to try an expensive name brand shield to see if I can tell any difference.

[1959 Apache 3600]

Subscribed too!
Ordered an Eastwood 135 last week, $100 off and free shipping. Did tons of research and for me, this unit seemed the best bang for the buck. Have never welded, seen others do it and watched and read hours of material in the process.

[mknittle]

Originally Posted by duwem

I know there is a tools section on this website, but I figured I would post this here for all the DIY'ers that hang out in this part of the site.

I see many different levels of welders digging through the build threads, I'm by no means an expert but I have been welding a lot for the past 10 years anything from race car tube frames to tractor plows and my dad does it for a living every day for the last 30.

I figure others with experience can add info as well. I will start some discussions.

WELD PREP:

CLEAN THE METAL! Welding over rust/paint makes a big mess and usually leads to a bad weld with little strength and penetration. This is something I do see on here and it scares me. If your going to weld on your frame, wire wheel at a minimum, sandblast is better. I usually sandblast small parts in my cabinet prior to welding even if its new metal. Gets rid of the black scale and contaminations.

DO NOT USE BRAKE CLEANER TO CLEAN PARTS YOUR GOING TO WELD. It gives off very toxic fumes that can kill you. There is an article online about someone that almost died.
I got some exposure to it once and had a hard time breathing for a day and felt sick. It luckily passed with no further problems. Use rubbing alchol or something else to clean parts.

The smaller the gap the stronger the weld, spend extra time fitting parts so you dont have burn through or weakness.

Welding is harmefull to your skin. Even a few minutes of tach welding will give you a sun burn. Wear your mask. Wear gloves (I use the thin leather welding gloves). Wear long sleeves and long pants for exended welding.



WELDERS:

Mig Welder:
Fux core welders make a hug mess, think stick welder. I believe most are farily low amperage and probably not strong enough for structural work.

I would highly recommend a mig welder, with gas. Results in much cleaner welds.

Get as high of amperage as you can afford, you will use it some day. I have a 175 and wish I had a 200.

Keep an eye out on craigslist. I picked up my Hobart 175 with a tank of gas and an extra spool of wire for $550 used. Definitely try it out before buying.

Mine runs off of 220 volt so I had to run 220 into my garage to run it. You can get 110 volt machines, but your max amperage output will be lower in most cases.

You can get stainless steel wire for a mig welder. I welded some stainless tube with stainless wire then left it in water to see if it would rust. The weld did rust over time. I believe you need a different gas (possibly straight argon) to properly weld stainless with a mig??

Tig Welder:
I tig weld 90% of what I make. I love Tig, you have so much more contol as your welding.

Tigs come in 2 types, DC or AC/DC. You dont need AC unless you plan to weld Aluminum. AC feature adds pretty significant cost to the machine.

I have a 200 amp AC/DC, but have only welded aluminum once wth it in the 3 years I have owned it. I figured I would use it eventually and since I know how to weld aluminum, I would be wanting it if I didnt have it.

Tig takes a lot of practice to master, but once you get there you can make some beautiful welds.

Tig welding is quiet and has no smoke/spatter.

Tig is a lot slower than mig, so you use more gas and more time but for me the results are worth it.

Stick Welders
I have seen people make some nice stuff with stick welders, but in my opinion they are more suited for fixing farm impliments than working on vehicles.


OTHERS PLEASE ADD TO THE DISCUSSION

actually flux core is as strong as any welding wire. ti is replacing stick in pipeline work. just make sure to grind the area that you stop if you are going to restart.

[mknittle]

Originally Posted by rpmerf

I've always herd that the HF wire was pretty bad. I don't have any personal experience to confirm this. I plan to get some wire from a welding store and put it to the test.

BTW what amperage is that?

hf welders and there wire are junk. save your money and buya good used Miller,lincoln hobart{miller now owns hobart}

[mknittle]

Originally Posted by Gumby

Ive tried all brands of wire, and always went back to HF not only cause its cheaper as the drive to my closest HF store wipes out any difference.

the problem with HF wire is that the quality. You simply cannot trust it!

[kev2809]

Very interesting thread...

I've been using a 90 amp from harbor freight for 2 years now. It's on it's way out definitely ..have a lot of problems with the wire coming out clean without hesitating. It worked pretty good when I got it but im thinking of getting something name brand this time. I been trying to weld together some tubing on a bike lately and it's just been horrible. I'm definitely no pro so maybe that's the problem. Lol..

Will definitely stay tuned in to this thread
Posted via Mobile Device

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by mknittle

the problem with HF wire is that the quality. You simply cannot trust it!

Not true, 10 years of nearly daily use and never a problem, must be you

And CE welders are made in France, not China, its a quality machine.

[kev2809]

i forgot to add i have the hf helmet and not a problem with 2 years using it..worth the money

[OrrieG]

I do my welding with a Lincoln 140, flux wire, no gas, that I bought 15 years ago. In 2006 I bought a HF self darkening helmet, keep it on the darkerst and fastest setting. so far no problems but most of my welding is in short (10 second) bursts, a 20 second bead is long for me. IF I was welding everyday, then I would upgrade the helmet and machine. The flux wire does splatter but since I am grinding anyway most of the time its not a big deal.

[50seven]

Like Painting - Weld Prep is the most important next to having the right materials and the ability to use them.

If you don't buy the right consumables and don't know how to use them there is no advice that can help you

First is knowing what a good weld is supposed to look like. Most welds I see are far too cold. Cold welds equal lack of fusion and eventual failure.

Know what you are welding (BASE Material) and pick your process and filler accordingly. A good start for filler metals are FCAW T9, GMAW ER70S-6, GTAW ER70S-6 or SMAW 7018-1 if your welding products don't have certifications put them in the garbage. Do not use any SMAW 60XX rod 6010, 6011, 6013, etc on your frames

Steel prior to the 50's should only be welded with caution. Steel prior to the 50's usually contain high levels of Sulphur (Remember the Titanic)

[Gumby]

Wont let me edit it, dunno why I said France, CE welders are made in Italy.

same diff both are known for quality products.

[squirrely_1]

I have owned the Chicago Electric brand that Harbor freight sells, they work ok, but your temp ranges are extremely limited, i have used gas and flux for my mig, gas is cleaner looking and less spatter to clean up. I just purchased the Eastwood combo pack, plasma cutter and 135 mig welder great deal and amazing product, awesome warranty and they have been around forever. Tons of youtube video's of the quality of these products, the best part is is ships to your door in 2 days and it the welder is only 300 bux! the cutter was 500! Check them out if your in the market!