Will shackle flip affect towing capacity?

[86ktwenty]

Was thinking of going with a shacke flip on the rear springs, offroad design/diy4x type of thing, was curious to know if it will affect towing/how much I can pull. Was also thinking of going with diy4x spring hangers up front, so i can gain a few inches running rear springs. Any ideas?

[special-K]

I'm sure those who run shackle flips will say no problem.Personally,that's what I don't like about them. They are great for a trail rig,but for a truck that works I would never use them. I feel that by design they are just not good for a lot of stress from weight. Why do you think trucks are built the way they are? The leverage is multiplied many times and I'm just not putting that much faith in not only the long bracket arm extending below the frame,but then the shackle itself off of that. Where you want articulation you're not going 70 mph with a thousand or more pounds in the bed and cornering...let alone a loaded trailer. To me shackle flips are only for play toys.

[maskale]

what specialK says makes sense


I have installed a flip on my play truck, The hangers and flip kits are made of much thicker metal. So while it may be a weaker design, it is beefier.


Here is something else to think about, those rock crawler guys beat on their rigs harder any anyone, and they flip with success.

How much wieght u talking about, because really a lifted rig is never safer when towing or hauling then a stock truck. Yes lot of people do it, and have done it for yrs. But fact is fact, a lifted truck is not as safe as a factory truck.

[modblacksmith]

Alot of the new trucks are rolling off the production line with the shackles fliped, sometimes just because the factory does it dosn't mean its right. Car and truck designers look at alot of things that the aftermarket community is doing and work it into there new designs.
I have a shackle flip on my 72 and it hasn't effected my towing at all. I've used the truck to tow a Cat skidsteer just last week.

[Husker]

If you use a wieght distribution hitch I would think you would be fine.
Ron

[Mike C]

By design, the front of our trucks are a shackle "flip", and that doesn't appear to be an issue. Never really looked at a Ford or Dodge to know how the do them. Personally, just flipping the shackle not that big of a deal IMO, but any lift will affect the dynamics of the vehicle and, once again, IMO a lifted vehicle does have a reduced towing capacity over the same one at stock height.

[joe231]

Originally Posted by Mike C

By design, the front of our trucks are a shackle "flip", and that doesn't appear to be an issue. Never really looked at a Ford or Dodge to know how the do them. Personally, just flipping the shackle not that big of a deal IMO, but any lift will affect the dynamics of the vehicle and, once again, IMO a lifted vehicle does have a reduced towing capacity over the same one at stock height.

Bingo!!
The flip in it's self isn't the problem, IMHO (unless you are using super long shackles)
It is the lift changing the COG (center of gravity)
If you flip and use close to stock length shackles, the stresses and reactions are very similar.

I'm planning on doing a flip with a pair of rear leaf, front hangers and stock shackles on my driver/tow rig.
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[rcbildr]

Even if you don't do a shackle flip and you lift the rig some other way, (somebody correct me if I'm wrong on this) the bigger tires you put on could affect your towing...depending on what you get.

[Dieselwrencher]

Originally Posted by special-K

I'm sure those who run shackle flips will say no problem.Personally,that's what I don't like about them. They are great for a trail rig,but for a truck that works I would never use them. I feel that by design they are just not good for a lot of stress from weight. Why do you think trucks are built the way they are? The leverage is multiplied many times and I'm just not putting that much faith in not only the long bracket arm extending below the frame,but then the shackle itself off of that. Where you want articulation you're not going 70 mph with a thousand or more pounds in the bed and cornering...let alone a loaded trailer. To me shackle flips are only for play toys.

If this were true, medium duty trucks leaf spring suspensions would be designed this way. But they're not. They're set up with the shackle under a mount, then the leaf spring. Just like a shackle flip. I haul with a shackle flip on my F-350 all the time and I'm going to bet it's more weight than 90% of the people on this truck board haul. On and off road, and these have been on there for 60,000 miles. 40,000 of those have had a heavy load on the truck or in it. We're talking a hay trailer with 6-8 round bales and a trailer that weighs 5500lbs empty. And this truck is lifted roughly 4" and has 33's. It weighs 7400lbs with a 1/4 tank of fuel and no fat guy in it. I also have sway bars front and rear, so she handles pretty well with a trailer on. I wouldn't be worried with a shackle flip and a small lift to tow.

[snj8198]

Does anybody have any ride quality experience with their truck before and after installing their shackle flip?

[DirtyLarry]

I agree with what other said above. The lift and tires themselves have more bearing on towing ability than the shackle flip. The Dodge Ram has the shackles flip straight from the factory and Workhorse has the shackles flipped on their RV chassis with GVW ranges from 15,000 to 26,000 lbs. I don’t see the shackle direction having anything to do with towing.

Steve,

Yes, I did notice a ride quality change when I did my ORD shackle flip. For the first year or so I ran the stock short bed 52” springs with the shackles flipped then later swapped in a set of 56” ¾ ton long bed springs. The shackle flip made the stock 52” springs ride so much better but the big gain in ride quality was moving to the 56” springs. You would be surprised how well my K10 rides, especially with the weight of the camper on it. Air the tires down to 10 psi and it floats on the trail like a Cadillac. Zoomad can attest to that.

[snj8198]

Thanks Larry, I suspected the flip with 56" springs would yield a better ride but as others are wondering here I didn't want to lose load capacity as this is a daily driver and working truck. I've seen them installed but don't have first hand experience with ride quality. I'm collecting parts for a 3 spring 52" swap on the front and the rear will be a 5 spring 56" with overloads and a shackle flip.

[Dieselwrencher]

Originally Posted by DirtyLarry

Steve,

Yes, I did notice a ride quality change when I did my ORD shackle flip. For the first year or so I ran the stock short bed 52” springs with the shackles flipped then later swapped in a set of 56” ¾ ton long bed springs. The shackle flip made the stock 52” springs ride so much better but the big gain in ride quality was moving to the 56” springs. You would be surprised how well my K10 rides, especially with the weight of the camper on it. Air the tires down to 10 psi and it floats on the trail like a Cadillac. Zoomad can attest to that.

I'm glad you posted that. My CC SWB has 56" rears and a shackle flip. I was curious how it would ride with those beefy springs. We shall see I guess.

[Zoomad75]

I can attest first hand on how DirtyLarry's K10 rides with the flip and 56" springs. Let's just put it this way, there aren't enough "O's" in SMOOTH to describe how it rides off road or on. That was with Casa-de-larry riding in the bed with a weekend's worth of gear riding back there. I could be caught giggling like a 10 year old flabbergasted as to the ride quality on the trail.

My own K5 has had a shackle flip for quite some time. Ride quality is great even with the stock 52" springs. Like Larry's, when off road and the tires aired down to 15 psi it's like riding on carpet. What impressed me is how well Larry's did with the extra weight of the camper on it. I can say I've been around Larry's rig long enough we used to take it to lunch back in our days at the Chevy customer assistance center and the truck was running a 350 (that's in my K5 now), turbo 350 auto, stiff lift springs up front and even stiffer 3/4 ton springs out back. On the rough roads of the Detroit suburbs that truck rode like a lumber wagon. What a difference it is now.

Bottom line, done right a shackle flip can do both.

[85burb]

I would suggest getting the upgraded schackles.

http://www.offroaddesign.com/catalog/hdREARshackles.htm

[special-K]

Originally Posted by Dieselwrencher

If this were true, medium duty trucks leaf spring suspensions would be designed this way. But they're not. They're set up with the shackle under a mount, then the leaf spring. Just like a shackle flip. I haul with a shackle flip on my F-350 all the time and I'm going to bet it's more weight than 90% of the people on this truck board haul. On and off road, and these have been on there for 60,000 miles. 40,000 of those have had a heavy load on the truck or in it. We're talking a hay trailer with 6-8 round bales and a trailer that weighs 5500lbs empty. And this truck is lifted roughly 4" and has 33's. It weighs 7400lbs with a 1/4 tank of fuel and no fat guy in it. I also have sway bars front and rear, so she handles pretty well with a trailer on. I wouldn't be worried with a shackle flip and a small lift to tow.

Like I said,others will say they don't effect towing. I'm just saying I wouldn't. I just don't like the idea. Let me ask this,why do people do shackle flips? For off road they give better articulation and smoother ride. Well,where all that matters I won't be towing or hauling a heavy load,most likely. A heavy load smooths out a ride,right? That takes care of the ride. Articulation? I'm not towing anything where that matters and I sure think anyone who does will be putting those flip brackets to the test. That's just my opinion and how I would build something for towing. I generally build trucks for specific uses...fun play toys or work trucks,because I need my work truck to make a living. I can't break it up over the weekend,so that's where I'm coming from.

[Mike C]

This is what Offroad Designs says about theirs:

Load carrying ability is also a common question. Basically, if you keep the factory overloads, you won’t have any trouble. We've designed the shackle angle to retain as much load carrying ability as possible with a lifted 4wd.

There is no more lateral lateral motion of the vehicle than with the stock tension shackle bushing setup. It may look as if the axle could move side to side easier, but the only thing that puts more leverage on the bushings is the additional ride height, which you also gain with blocks or lift springs.

1-ton trucks require a different flip kit than k5's, k10's and k20's. The kit is the same price, we just need to know it's for a 1-ton when you order it. The difference is that the spring center spacing on the 1-ton axle is only 40 1/2", and on the rest of the trucks, it's 42 1/2". The brackets are a different shape to reflect that.

[hovenga67]

I have a 86 Chevy m1008. I run a shackle flip. I have hauled over 3000 lbs in the back of my truck. And pulled over 10,000lbs with it. I have never had a issue with them.
Brent

[86ktwenty]

Originally Posted by Dieselwrencher

If this were true, medium duty trucks leaf spring suspensions would be designed this way. But they're not. They're set up with the shackle under a mount, then the leaf spring. Just like a shackle flip. I haul with a shackle flip on my F-350 all the time and I'm going to bet it's more weight than 90% of the people on this truck board haul. On and off road, and these have been on there for 60,000 miles. 40,000 of those have had a heavy load on the truck or in it. We're talking a hay trailer with 6-8 round bales and a trailer that weighs 5500lbs empty. And this truck is lifted roughly 4" and has 33's. It weighs 7400lbs with a 1/4 tank of fuel and no fat guy in it. I also have sway bars front and rear, so she handles pretty well with a trailer on. I wouldn't be worried with a shackle flip and a small lift to tow.

Thanks, i wasn't planning on going any higher than 4" inches and a set of 285/75r16 (load range D) tires. Probably won't see much hay, just the occasional gooseneck with a car or the mud truck on it.

[Dieselwrencher]

Originally Posted by 86ktwenty

Thanks, i wasn't planning on going any higher than 4" inches and a set of 285/75r16 (load range D) tires. Probably won't see much hay, just the occasional gooseneck with a car or the mud truck on it.

Another great thing about going with a shackle flip is you can ditch your lift block that most 4x4 trucks have in the rear suspension. They can and do break if you actually tow heavy and actually have power. Ask me how I know.

[joe231]

Originally Posted by Dieselwrencher

Another great thing about going with a shackle flip is you can ditch your lift block that most 4x4 trucks have in the rear suspension. They can and do break if you actually tow heavy and actually have power. Ask me how I know.

Not to mention block induced axle wrap...
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[Dieselwrencher]

Here's where I have been getting mine if anyone is looking for another option. If you bend these, you have other issues to attest to.

http://diy4x.com/cart/index.php?rout...product_id=113

[1970ChevyChamp]

I know this thread has been dead for awhile, but I'm in the process of doing the shackle flip and had a question. What I have is a 71 K20. I bought the B52 kit and the Shackle Flipn-n-Switch from DIY4X. I was talking on the phone with one of their guys and he recommended using 52in rear leafs out of a early 80's K5 Blazer for my front springs, but we didn't discuss what springs to use for the rear leafs. I want to use a 56in spring for the rear. What trucks did the 56in spring come in? There is a local spring company that makes factory spec springs for all the old Chevy trucks, blazers, suburbans, etc. Basically I'm just wondering what truck the 56in springs came in.

[Zoomad75]

3/4 ton trucks ran the 56" springs.

[1970ChevyChamp]

Thanks for the info.