4 or 5 speed swap options?

[C10LIFE]

Its back on the ground and running, still have some suspention things to button up. Here is my set up and my question. I have the factory 350ci 4 speed with granny still in the truck and by my calculations 373 rears and probably running 4000rpm at 60mph. Not an uncommon issue. So, what are my inexpensive bullet proof options for a tranny swap? Thanks
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[jocko]

Unfortunately, inexpensive and bulletproof cannot co-exist...
If you want to beat on the truck, recommend a beefed up 700R4/2004R/4L60, etc.
http://www.bowtieoverdrives.com/index.shtml
If you must row your own, the only sufficiently beefy transmissions are the T56/TKO type, or RS400/500 (Keisler - also TKO-based) etc. none of which are "inexpensive".
http://www.hurst-drivelines.com/?page_id=126 - http://www.classicchevy5speed.com/fi...ucks-Aug07.pdf
http://keislerauto.com/wizard.html

If you can treat it sanely, ok, VERY sanely, a T5 swap is inexpensive, but it will not last if you're gonna floor it and dump the clutch more than, oh, I don't know, once maybe. Here's my swap thread for the T5 (into my 66, but the same idea applies).
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=482069

In all cases on the manual transmissions, you'll need to plan for stick placement. T5 requires an S10 tail hsg for forward stick location. TKOs, T56, etc require the "mid" (or maybe forward, I forget) shifter location for clearance. if you have buckets, this is not an issue.

[jocko]

One I did forget to mention - but it's not inexpensive either - there is a guy that I've met a few times at swap meets that makes an M-21"Y" I think it's called. It's a beefy Muncie 4-speed, but with a different gear spread than stock, and 4th is an o/d gear. Not much of one, seems I recall it was in the high 0.8's, but still an improvement. I think this is the guy's website: http://m-22.com/

And here's one more Tremec dealer I forgot to mention: http://www.classicchevy5speed.com/El...la-Tremec.aspx

I've not had any luck dealing with Keisler - some have though. I think I fell thru the cracks with them, and so I went with a T5 - am very happy with it, but it required some customization to compensate for the longer than stock i/p shaft. Easily solved, but still had to scratch the head a little.

[C10LIFE]

Ok, swaping to an auto is an option but creates a hole other set of issues, drive shaft lenth-crank not bolting up to a flexplate ectect. So, a wrecking yard swap I think is what I am asking about. I have a 700r4 and a auto cab ectect but thinking about staying with a stick. Will a car 5 speed work? Camaro or something?
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[C10LIFE]

Of coarse I could just simply swap out the rear gears?
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[C10LIFE]

2500 bucks for the m22 is waaaaaaay out of the question.
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[dan42]

Here's a T5 for you -
http://santabarbara.craigslist.org/pts/2915004609.html
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[jocko]

Yes, the M22 is $$$. But so are swap kits for TKOs, etc. You will need to shorten the driveshaft with any overdrive trans. The car/camaro trans is the T5.

Here's the skinny on the T5:
If you have a bench seat, you will need an S10 tailshaft housing on it.
Camaro/F-body T5s have the correct length input shaft - no spacer/adapter needed.
S10 (main case) requires a spacer/adapter, but a couple companies make them or you can have a local machine shop make one for about $100-$125. Local shop by my house did it for $80, but when he was done, he said next time would be $120 and I don't blame him.

If you have a bench seat :
- ideal combo is: Camaro T5 (World Class) main case with S10 tailshaft housing. Just bolt in and go.
- Second best is S10 T5 (World Class IF you can find one) with the S10 tailshaft housing it came with (i.e. you only need to buy ONE trans) - but need an adapter due to i/p shaft length
- Last option is a non-WC T5. Weaker, but they're all kinda weak. - and same adapter required.

If buckets - then buy what Dan just posted and call it a day (but don't beat on it too much)

Again, if you're gonna beat on it, I recommend you go with an automatic since the muncie price seemed too high - the other O/D options will cost you as much when it's all said and done. The automatics can be a less expensive up front investment. Understand you want a stick though.

So, if a trans is too much, then you could swap rear gears. By your description, assuming you have 3.73 or 4.11, etc. 3.08 would be more appropriate, but you'll have no grunt off the line in 2nd with the granny trans (granny won't be as much of a pain, but still pretty useless for daily driving).

Sorry, not much help I don't think - to get the rpms down (i.e. use an o/d) and have a stick and "bullet proof", hard to do it inexpensively. Rear end gears are the less expensive option, but won't completely cure your shifting blues. If you aren't gonna beat on it, the T5 route can be worthwhile. If you are, skip the T5.

[C10LIFE]

Just sold the buddybuckets, but they had a center support anyway and prefer the bench. Currently bolt in high hump cab but I do have a low hump auto cab as well.
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[C10LIFE]

Originally Posted by dan42

Here's a T5 for you -will it bolt up? Driveshaft issues? Bellhousing?
http://santabarbara.craigslist.org/pts/2915004609.html
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[jocko]

It's a camaro T5, odds are it's a WC (call the guy and ask him for the metal tag number to ID it - then cross ref it on this site: http://www.britishv8.org/Articles/Bo...T5-ID-Tags.htm should start with 1352-). It should bolt to your bell directly, but note that chev switched to a Ford bell bolt pattern at some point - sorry I don't recall which year, but pretty sure it was later than 89. It should not require i/p shaft shortening or adapter plate. If you have a bench, the tailshaft will not work. You'll need an S10 tailshaft. Trust me, they are getting harder and harder to find - every swingin richard from here to australia is sticking a T5 behind every hot rod on the planet it seems. I called a supplier and he wanted more for the tailshaft than a whole transmission...

driveshaft will need to be shortened.

If you have buckets, then this might be a reasonable option for you.

[jocko]

here's what it looks like with an S10 tailshaft so you can see what i'm talkin about - stick location much more forward, clears bench seats.

[C10LIFE]

I see, I will be on the hunt first thing in the am. Thanks for the great info and what I think is the solution to my problem......
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[C10LIFE]

Ok, another Q, why not use the entire S10 tranny instead of s10 tail shaft and Z28 or T5 gear box?
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[C10LIFE]

Just found an artical. The S10 has a T10 not a T5 and world class and non world class 85-92 confusing? The T5 came in many differant vehicals including some jeeps but as was said running the tag is the only sure way to tell.
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[C10LIFE]

The ultimate T5 swap artical has a lot of great infomation as well as tag #s. Thanks again for all the help guys
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[jocko]

Originally Posted by C10LIFE

Ok, another Q, why not use the entire S10 tranny instead of s10 tail shaft and Z28 or T5 gear box?
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The advantage of the mixed combo is:
1) no requirement to insert a spacer between a Camaro main case and the T5 (i/p shaft is correct length)
2) MOST Camaro T5s will be a WC T5.
3) MOST S10 T5s are NOT WC
Note - there are exceptions to both 2 and 3 -I got lucky and have a 93 S10 T5 - it's a WC.

BUT, yes you can use just a plain old S10 T5 alone. Requires the spacer, and will last even LESS long if you pound on it.

[jocko]

Originally Posted by C10LIFE

Just found an artical. The S10 has a T10 not a T5 and world class and non world class 85-92 confusing? The T5 came in many differant vehicals including some jeeps but as was said running the tag is the only sure way to tell.
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Not following along real well on this question...
- S10 had a T5, not a T10. T10 is an old Borg Warner 4-speed.
- WC vs non-WC, not sure what you were saying/asking here - WC was more prevalent in Camaros/Firebirds, but was also available in S-10 in 93.
- Note that if you opt for newer T5 transmissions, there are 2 things to check for:
1) make sure it's not a Ford bell housing pattern
2) have a plan for converting the electronic speedo hookup to mechanical


- Yes, T5 was available in more than F-bodies and S10. You are correct, BIG in jeeps. Also the standard manual trans in mustangs mid-80's and up. Mustang SVOs got a hopped up 330 ft-lb capable T5 for a few of the later years I believe. But, generally speaking, WC T5s are rated at about 300 ft-lbs and non-WC T5s are 220-250-ish ft-lb capable.

- Yes, metal tag is only way to know "for sure" what you have - BUT (and this is a BIG BUT) then again, it's removeable and once removed, you're screwed. Swap meet folks routinely change out the tags to pass the trans off as a WC when it's not. Buying from a private party might be saafer (I bought at a swap meet, got lucky - know more now than I did then...) The dead giveaway to look for is to visually ID the main case as WC or non-WC. If you look at the face that mounts to the bell housing (i.e. i/p shaft pointing AT you) - just below and left of the i/p shaft, you'll see a countershaft bore in the housing with either a bearing or a bushing holding it in place. If it has a level rim with concave center - it's a WC (this is a roller-bearing countershaft bearing). If it's just flat all the way across (or kinda looks like a freeze plug - no concave surface in the center) - it's a non-WC (just a bushing-like countershaft mount vice an actual bearing).

[muddobber]

I sm running a muncie 5 speed from a 98 half ton its a very easy swap. Everything works great. Only had to build one small tab and bolt to clutch pedal because master cylinder push rod wouldnt reach Shifter location is in stock location in floor pan. Mine has taken a pounding for the last seven years. Ive done nothing but rape it.
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[88fordf150]

Change the rearend gears, save money and a lot of headaches.

[C10LIFE]

I have owned a 79 and a 86 z28 with 5 speeds. If my truck was to ever perform like those cars did I would be very happy.
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[Scott Webster]

I have a T10 4 speed from a Camaro (previous owner stated) and enjoy it. I wish I had some different gears in the back, since it's not much fun on the highway. I wish I went with a 5 speed, but I don't miss the old granny 4 speed.

[Dingfodgy]

Like "Muddobber" has done- you can get a Getrag G290 unit out of a 90's 2wd truck. They have integral bell-housings and hydraulic clutch setups (on the right side no less)- so a bit of plumbing will be necessary, but are a direct bolt in. Next is the NV3500 from late 90's to 2000's S10's that can be bolted in relatively simply. Lastly, Novak Adapters makes a kit to mate a SBC with an Aisin-Warner AX15 most commonly found in Jeep TJ's and 92 and later Cherokee's. All of these are decent 5-speeds, but like the T5 cannot take alot of abuse.

[C10LIFE]

My exibition of speed days are far behind me, so just a good dependable 5 speed will do the job. Found a couple locally for about $250 plus hidden costs. A hydrolic assist clutch was already in the plan and I think will be a nice creature comfort in days to come. Thanks again for all the help guys.
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[Mayo]

I have had a T5 from an 83 Camaro in my truck since February of 09. I had it rebuilt in December 09 and haven't had any problems since.