Sound deadening question.

[Bigb401]

I'm wondering if a sound deadening kit under the carpet (from something like brothers) will make much of a difference with the top off. Just wondering if it's worth the money, time, and work. Any and all opinions are appreciated
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[webfishr]

Yes, I just did this and it made a HUGE difference in my Blazer. I wish I would have recorded the noise level going down the road without anything and then recorded with everything installed just to measure the difference.

I put down strips of Dynamat (only strips not full coverage), than an aluminum coated foam pad for sound and heat, and then rubber backed carpet. It's like driving a new car. I can talk on the cell using my hands free mic installed on the sun-guard going down the road at 55MPH. You certainly have plenty of wind noise but it is a day and night difference. The road/metal noise is almost nothing. I certainly recommend it. You can actually carry on a conversation going down the road with a passenger which I couldn't do before without yelling.

[Bigb401]

Hmm. Good to know. Did you buy a kit or stuff individual sets? Who did u buy it in individually. Who's u get it from? Thanks for the info
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[Bigb401]

Do you have any pics? Is the carpet nice and flat still? I bought som evening mats for the back so the carpet lays flat and doesn't conform the bed floor design. How does it look with laying strips of dynomat down
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[webfishr]

I bought a kit and for the carpet, I went with stockinteriors.com with the massbacking. The kit I used was the Truck Acoustic Kit from Classicparts.com (Part #42-616B) which was about $600 when I ordered it. Unfortunately, I just looked it up online and they are now selling it for $740 so the price as gone up. I'm sure they order it from another 3rd party so you might be able to research a better price someplace. One thing the kit comes with is the materials for the hard top which I didn't use. I run a soft top on mine so it was useless. I think the padding wouldn't look great without covering the aluminum once installed in the hardtop somehow regardless. You might call them to see if they could provide a kit without the materials for the hard top which could save some $$ since it sounds like you'd be running without the top given your original question. The kit took some time to install but was already pre-cut which made things very easy. I will say if I never see a roll of aluminum tape again, I'll be very happy. Once I had the padding and carpet down, everything lays fairly flat because of the thickness but it probably isn't a bad idea to put something down in the grooves if you want completely smooth. Here are a few pictures as well.

Also, you might check out this site http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/ They seem to have some good information on the topic.

[RustyBucket]

The WIND noise in mine is brutal.... any speed above 40mph is like riding a motorcycle. NO CONVERSATION. Not aware of much road noise, exhaust sounds pretty, I can hear the intake/fan noise if I stand on it hard. If we go somewhere on the interstate the wind buffeting noise is really tiring. I've blasted it out to 100 or so a couple of times and almost lost my passenger floor mat once... I caught it above the passenger seat as it was blowing out. My wife and I both wear in the ear ear buds plugged into our phones/pandora. CRAP!!, maybe we're just gettin' old, deaf and crochety.

[Firebirdjones]

I've been wanting to sound deaden mine but holy cow that kit is pricey

I'll probably buy the rolls of it sold from various places and cover different areas in the blazer. I never take the top off so I'm just looking for a little less noise in the cabin.

There are things I don't want to do that you showed pictures of Web. One of those (and this might be a consideration for others) is all that sound deadening on the back floor.
Mine still has the factory rubber mats that lay in those bed grooves so the carpet lays flat. Sounds deadening in there wouldn't allow those rubber mats to lay flat anymore. I'm thinking maybe attaching it to the top of the rubber mats.
The other issue that I'm leary of is attaching that stuff right to the inside of the bedsides. I'm thinking it might work nicely on the backside of the interior panels instead.

Basically since I'm thinking of installing it a certain way, that whole kit wouldn't work for me anyway.

And how does sound deadening for the hardtop work?? There is no headliner to cover it with and it would look down right nasty if I had to stare at shiny silver stuff on the roof all the time

[Bigb401]

I didn't write this but very informational.

Alright, first of all, I must apologize, I have promised this thread for a long time aned never got around to writing it. So, here it is, tips & tricks of making your car rattle free. Also note that the title of this thread is "Sound damping and vibration elimination", not Sound DAMPENING. Damping means to damp, to reduce vibration. Dampening means to make damp, to make wet. Unless you're asking how to spray your car with water, get it right, or I WILL give you sh!t about it. *

Before we get into materials and whatnot, a few words on how this stuff works, and what we want to accomplish. Every object in the physical universe has a resonant frequency. When subjected to energy at or close to that frequency, the object in question will absorb as much energy as it needs to begin vibrating. What we percieve as an annoying noise has another side effect to the audio world - it's reducing sound energy. In other words, however much power it took to start that object vibrating, is energy that was absorbed from your speakers output, and ain't makin' it to your ears or the competition mic. We're trying to reduce and/or eliminate both the annoying rattles this causes, and increase the amount of energy we get to hear. There are a few ways to accomplish this.

Now we get into various materials, tools, and techniques. I will mention the absolute MOST IMPORTANT thing you will need to properly quiet your car down first.

PATIENCE

And lots of it. If you hurry through it, you will not accomplish what you want. If you don't have several hours to dedicate to the job, do it in sections, with a plan. Trunklid today, rest of the trunk next week, doors after that, etc. Expect to spend at LEAST a full day to do a full car. Got it? Good. Moving right along....


Mass Loading

This is the most common method of reducing vibration. This is what all those different kinds of mat and sprays are really about. By adding mass, we increase the amount of energy required to make a given object vibrate. Any amount of energy less than the "vibration threshold" is simply reflected, and for our purposes that's a good thing. The products in question have the additional ability to transform vibration energy into heat energy, further reducing vibration if and when the threshold for the treated object is reached. But there are some situations where this doesn't cut it! Common types of mass loading materials are:

Asphalt or vinyl mat. The first question everybody asks is, "what brand of mat should I get?" The answer is - depends on what you want to accomplish. Dynomat more or less started the whole idea of a specialty mass loading material, and in my experience, is still the best. Other brands are out there, and many of them are very good. There are also materials "designed" for other uses that work well in this capacity as well.*
Many of the products out there are asphalt based. It does the job. It's also heavy, smelly, tends to stiffen up and crack over time, and will eventually fall off. Keep that in mind when shopping. Vinyl based products are lighter, just as effective, and last a LOT longer, not to mention they don't stink when applied, or months later when your car is sitting in the sun. :E Some mats have multiple layers, some have metal backing. For the most part, they will indicate what they are designed for, you should pay attention. Some are designed for application to the floor to reduce road noise, some for apllication to interior metal, some for sheetmetal. All will work, but some better in one app than another.
Application. Too often I see trunk lids with sheets - somtimes several thick - haphazardly "ironed" on underneath. Those with a little more patience will take the time to form fit the stuff, but it's still "sheeted" on. Folks, take the time to cut & paste. Small, perfectly fitted pieces laid carefully into full contact will work better, and won't come loose over time. This goes for the whole car. Use as big a sheet as can be applied without any gaps or air pockets underneath. When you reach a rib of metal that the sheet will have to cover, cut it and start another piece on the other side. It looks better, works better, and lasts longer.

Sprays. I personally think these are a total ripoff. Do they work? Kinda. They are OK for areas that just can't be reached to apply mat. But they are NOT as effective, any brand, no matter what they claim. When used as a base over which mat will be applied, fine. This will allow you to spread the spray over an area that is oddly shaped and difficult or impossible to mat, and use a few pieces of carefully cut mat to supplement it. Used alone, these products are as close to useless as you can get, unless you want to use 2 full cans on one door panel.


Active Absorbtion*

If two objects are near each other, and one or more of them vibrates enough to come into contact with the other one, "vibration" turns into "rattle". One of the most common aggrevations to people who spend mony on damping material is that the "rattles" they sought to eliminate are reduced, but still very much present! The reason is simple. The mat may have reduced the vibration, but not enough to completely prevent all motion. And the mat materials are generally applied to the surface, not BETWEEN the objects making the noise. Active absorbtion is a fancy way of saying we stuff something between teh objects to absord the vibration energy and prevent physical contact between vibrating objects. The stuff used here is less "technical" than the mass loading materials; various foams and silicates are best. Properly applying them is a whole different matter, though....

Foam tape. This is a personal favorite of mine, and one that many people, including professional installers, overlook. Go to a hardware store, and get the foam weatherstripping they sell for window and door sealing. Use small pieces of it on the underside of interior trim panels, along the edges of 3rd brake lights that contact glass - right at the contact spot where anything is rattling against something else!! Especialy usefull for wire loom runs under the rear deck and behind the dash. Can't be beat.

Expanding foam. BE CAREFUL!! Improper application of this stuff can do SERIOUS damage to your car! Once exposed to air, this stuff will expand until it's done, PERIOD. If that means a spot weld is in the way - well, too bad for the spot weld. If the weld is stronger than the sheetmetal to the outside of it, so be it - you now have a car with a bad case of the mumps as the body panels deform around the foam. I've seen it happen, don't let it happen to you. Get the "low expansion" type, and apply it slowly and carefully. Use this anywhere where there is an open space that can't be reached with other materials. Under the trunk lid is a perfect example. The sheetmetal is braced underneath by a "skeloton" of bent metal. This is usually spot welded on, leaving a very small gap along the edges. When the sheetmetal begins to vibrate, it slaps against the less-flexable bent steel! One can't get mat stuck in there very well, and spray won't cut it. Expanding foam injected in there works wonders.

Silicone sealant. Another oft-overlooked wonder of the damping world. If you read the example above, try this: Instead of expanding foam under there, shoot a nice bead of silicone along and into the gap. Bingo! No more rattles. The foam works better in areas too large for the silicone to fill, but in narrow gaps, this stuff rocks.

Good ol' fashioned foam stuff. Sometimes a piece of foam stuffed under something just can't be beat. Under the reart decklid trim, for instance. Again, don't just stuff a big piece under there and hope everything fits. Cut a piece to fit where the rattel is present.*


OK, that about covers it. Take the time to crawl around your car with the stereo cranked and identify the rattles one at a time. Once you find one, decide which of these techniques and materials will do the job best. Then apply it, carefully. Start with the exterior, under the car, the license plates, spoiler, bumper clips, etc. - all common causes. After that's handled, move inside. Strip out the interior, and apply the base you will use on sheetmetal and whatnot. Now put the interior back together, and listen for trim panels and whatnot that rattle. There's an order of events here.

Now begins the conversation about what brands everyone thinks are best, where to get deals, other techniques and materials, etc. That's what this thread is for, so have at it! Please keep it on topic and constructive, please, as this is a sticky for people with specific questions and needs. *
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[Firebirdjones]

Another area I'm going to tackle differently is the tailgate. I plan to hit the inside of that with Lizard Skin sound deadener that sprays in. Works good for tight spaces like that. Can't really get in there with any matting.

Some day I'll get started on the whole thing.....


So,,,,,how does that hardtop roof sound deadening work???

[low'n slow]

Firebird, congrats on the 1,000 posts.

[Firebirdjones]

Originally Posted by low'n slow

Firebird, congrats on the 1,000 posts.

Wow, I had no idea

[BOHICA]

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

The other issue that I'm leary of is attaching that stuff right to the inside of the bedsides. I'm thinking it might work nicely on the backside of the interior panels instead.

Nossir, that's just pissing in the wind.

Physics 101: sound is caused and transmitted through vibrations. The rubber mats are attached to your body panels in an attempt to dampen (yes, that is the correct usage of the word) noise passing through from the outside. Without them, road noise from both wind buffeting against the body and chassis movement is transmitted through vibration of the body panels and into the cabin. Attaching the rubber mats to your metal body panels helps to stifle this transmission, in effect lowering ambient noise inside your vehicle. Putting them on the backside of your trim panels won't work because first and foremost, you're not stopping sounds at their source, and second, the noise has already been transmitted into the air by the time it reaches your interior panels. An example would be to take a speaker and place your hand against it. Stops the noise, right? However, if you just put a box over the speaker, it can still get pretty loud.

As far as the back floor goes, my recommendation would be to apply the sound deadener and then put a layer of jute padding over it. This should smooth out the bed floor's ribbing showing through your bed floor. Again, attaching sound deadener to the top of your rubber floor mats will do little to nothing to alleviate road noise. Combining the sound deadener with jute padding should allow you to have your cake and eat it too.

As far as the top goes, I don't know how well that would work. Ideally you need to fill the dead space between the outer and inner hull, but I can't tell you with what. Currently, my plan once I find a top will be to have someone proficient with fiberglass cut out the roof, lay in foam or some kind of insulation, and put the roof back on. While it's off, I'll also plumb the top with wires so I can run modern dome lights.

[Bigb401]

I agree with bohica! once again thanks!!
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[RustyBucket]

THE ULTIMATE IN SOUND DEADENING FOR YOUR BLAZER/JIMMY!!.... less than $10, installs in minutes...
This product effectively eliminates road/wind/exhaust noise AND those annoying passenger seat noises... "SLOW DOWN!", WHERE ARE WE GOING?", "THERE'S A GARAGE SALE!", "THAT GIRL'S DRESS IS TOO SHORT", "I'm hot-cold-tired-hungry-sleepy-bored......bla,bla,...."

[Firebirdjones]

Originally Posted by BOHICA

Nossir, that's just pissing in the wind.

Physics 101: sound is caused and transmitted through vibrations. The rubber mats are attached to your body panels in an attempt to dampen (yes, that is the correct usage of the word) noise passing through from the outside. Without them, road noise from both wind buffeting against the body and chassis movement is transmitted through vibration of the body panels and into the cabin. Attaching the rubber mats to your metal body panels helps to stifle this transmission, in effect lowering ambient noise inside your vehicle. Putting them on the backside of your trim panels won't work because first and foremost, you're not stopping sounds at their source, and second, the noise has already been transmitted into the air by the time it reaches your interior panels. An example would be to take a speaker and place your hand against it. Stops the noise, right? However, if you just put a box over the speaker, it can still get pretty loud.

As far as the back floor goes, my recommendation would be to apply the sound deadener and then put a layer of jute padding over it. This should smooth out the bed floor's ribbing showing through your bed floor. Again, attaching sound deadener to the top of your rubber floor mats will do little to nothing to alleviate road noise. Combining the sound deadener with jute padding should allow you to have your cake and eat it too.

As far as the top goes, I don't know how well that would work. Ideally you need to fill the dead space between the outer and inner hull, but I can't tell you with what. Currently, my plan once I find a top will be to have someone proficient with fiberglass cut out the roof, lay in foam or some kind of insulation, and put the roof back on. While it's off, I'll also plumb the top with wires so I can run modern dome lights.

If that's all true then it sounds like sound deadening is completely out of the question for me.

[SamMargritz00]

i used something like this stuff http://www.b-quiet.com/extreme.html i don't remember the actual name but it is identical to this. i didn't cover the whole area like webfishr, only in areas that would rattle the most. covered almost the whole area in the front, strips in the doors, a few sheets on the side where the speakers would be at, over the wheel wells, and used the rubber mat. the carpet had some insulation to it on the underside. i was really impressed with only all i did. its like riding in a whole new vehicle!

[DustinU]

I guess I am with the overkill crowd

My Blazer will be topless most of the time and no room in the garage to park it. I sprayed Al's liner for a water proof/resistant barrier, my Fatmat sound deadening off ebay just arrived an hour ago. I don't have a leveling mat so I will be cutting strips of the fatmat to help level out the back floor, then a full sheet of fatmat followed by double sided jute and carpet. I will let you know how it turns out.

[Bigb401]

Ok. Sounds good
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[notsolo]

Originally Posted by DustinU

I guess I am with the overkill crowd

My Blazer will be topless most of the time and no room in the garage to park it. I sprayed Al's liner for a water proof/resistant barrier, my Fatmat sound deadening off ebay just arrived an hour ago. I don't have a leveling mat so I will be cutting strips of the fatmat to help level out the back floor, then a full sheet of fatmat followed by double sided jute and carpet. I will let you know how it turns out.

I am with you... Over kill it is. I was going with same Fatman. under frt seats and floor then a layer of EZ Cool... strips in the back to fill in, then a layer on top. EZ cool is closed cell foam 3/16 thick foil on both sides. http://www.lobucrod.com

[70cst]

http://www.b-quiet.com/ultimate.html


This is what I used ...

[DustinU]

Originally Posted by notsolo

I am with you... Over kill it is. I was going with same Fatman. under frt seats and floor then a layer of EZ Cool... strips in the back to fill in, then a layer on top. EZ cool is closed cell foam 3/16 thick foil on both sides. http://www.lobucrod.com

Thanks Notsolo, If I wasn't in hurry to get my Blazer on the road I would order that EZ cool, I like the closed cell foam and moisture control, If I didn't have the Al's liner I would be waiting for the EZ cool to arrive, but the double sided jute and carpet are going in today. I will be recommending the EZ cool to my brother. After looking at the Fatmat last night, I am also using the jute to "level" out the floor, the fatmat is too thin for that.

[notsolo]

Originally Posted by DustinU

Thanks Notsolo, If I wasn't in hurry to get my Blazer on the road I would order that EZ cool, I like the closed cell foam and moisture control, If I didn't have the Al's liner I would be waiting for the EZ cool to arrive, but the double sided jute and carpet are going in today. I will be recommending the EZ cool to my brother. After looking at the Fatmat last night, I am also using the jute to "level" out the floor, the fatmat is too thin for that.

I looked at the grooves today I think 1 layer of each will level it out. I am a month away from where you are at. Post some pics when you get a chance.....Ed.

[DustinU]

Originally Posted by notsolo

I looked at the grooves today I think 1 layer of each will level it out. I am a month away from where you are at. Post some pics when you get a chance.....Ed.

Here of some pics of the Fatmat and the jute padding I cut into strips yesterday. I bought some single sided padding by mistake so I used it for the cargo area and the strips.



The modern art master piece that is under the rear seat area is recycling at its finest.



I think that the strips work really well to level out the deck, it will take a while to see how it holds up (breakdown, etc), regardless, I would do it again.

[Firebirdjones]

Holy cow that's alot of stuff. How much weight did that add??

I know a roll of that dynomat isn't exactly light.

[DustinU]

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

Holy cow that's alot of stuff. How much weight did that add??

I know a roll of that dynomat isn't exactly light.

Yes it is a lot of stuff, I used two rolls (about 14 lbs each) of Fat mat. 3 rolls total of jute (4 lbs each), so about 40 pounds. I read some where on here if you want your truck to ride smooth throw 600 pounds in the back or it will ride like a truck... between the Caddy like sound/heat dampening and the cage I am well on my way

My truck weigh's 4700 lbs +/- 10 lbs with all this installed (seats, hard top and cage included). I just had it weighed.