Why crossover steering

[KyFarm]

I would like to know the advantages and disadvantages of crossover steering.

I don't know if its just the 33" tires or what but this truck of mine wanders around the road pretty good. The steering is tight, by that I mean it seems that input from the wheel translates well to the front end without much play in the wheel, but if you hold the wheel straight the truck tends to go right or left on these old country roads that I drive.

The truck is a '69 but the front axel is from a '72 so it has power disc brakes.

So what can be done to tighten up the front end? All help is greatly apprreciated

[Burt4x4]

I had the same symptom with my factory 72K5 setup..well steering wise. I have a 4" lift spring up fromt. anyway I use to daily drive my K5 back in the day and the backroads were just plain scary trying to keep it from beebooping all over the road. I installed an aftermarket from sway bar and walla, now my rig would just bounce up n down not sway side to side.

Not sure if crossover would solve your swaying...?

.-25c

[Stocker]

Wide front tires can cause tramlining (wandering, following pavement seams or irregularities), and some tire brands are worse than others. Also, wheels with more negative offset (think "deep dish") make the problem a lot worse. A good steering stabilizer shock will help mask the problem, but won't make it go away. I'm not sure if crossover steering will change anything.

[KyFarm]

what is the point of crossover steering?

[Burt4x4]

I did it to my front D60 for wheeling. It moved all my steering up above the axel and when on rocks it's much eaisier to steer plus I have hydro assist..

[rcbildr]

I though crossover steering is used on suspension lifts 6"-8" or more to get the steering geometry right.

[1969K10]

the real advantage to cross over, is when driving on off angle terrain. The stock steering, the pitman arm moves front to back, steering the driverside wheel. On cross over, you steer side to side, on the passenger wheel.

What happens, is when driving on off angle terrain, the natural movement of the springs causes the steering wheel to turn to keep the tires going straight. This eventually leads to a lack of steering ability in certain situations. With crossover, the amount of steering wheel movement to keep the tires straight is significantly reduced. Therefore reducing the chance of getting in that bound up situation where you can't steer the direction that you need to.

[wilkin250r]

It's not just a "steering geometry" issue, because if that was the only issue the easiest way would be to make to make a new pitman arm with more drop to it.

The problem is, the normal setup is really bad, it just flexes all wrong, puts stress in the wrong area, it's barely adequate for the stock setup. It will actually wander a little bit with just the flex inherent in the system, and this obviously gets worse with bigger tires and more offset, and the linkage angles get worse with a lift.

The crossover system is theoretically the answer. Instead of the steering box controlling the driver-side wheel from fifteen inches away, it "crosses over" to the passenger side. This is the most natural and logical way to turn a wheel, by pushing an arm from a 90 degree angle away. This should reduce the effects of any flex in the system, and because you're crossing over to a wheel five feet away, the geometry doesn't change nearly as much with a lift or with suspension movement.

Now, this isn't based on actual experience, I don't have a crossover. But my experience with mechanical engineering tells me it will work better.

[mud.man.rj]

What kind of shape is the frontend really in and did you check the adjustment on the steering box worm gear, they do need adjusting atfer time and if not too bad the bigger tires will make it show up more, just thinking of the abvious things before getting into crossover, maybe it is a simple fix, after all it is only 33" tires.

[Mr. 250r]

I see people saying the steering stabilizer masks the problem but just to put some info out there a regular stabilizer isn't going to hurt anything assuming everything is okay to begin with because from the factory i'm pretty sure most trucks came with them as the truck needs to absorb some amount of movement and that's what the original one is for now if you add another like the aftermarket sure i see where it could mask the problem but a single original i just don't see it just me though

[KyFarm]

Thanks for all info, it would appear that crossover steering isn't something that I need at this point.

I'm gonna get under it today and check for any loose parts in the steering system and look for an adjustment in the worm gear. I'm not really sure what I'm looking for there though.

The truck has very old rusty shocks on it and lately has developed an annoying squeal from the rear end on vertical movement, does it at a stand still with truck off if you bounce on the bumper or riding down my farm road over bumps, so I'm thinking its about time for new shocks all around anyway.

So it seems I'm reading that for the front I should get "steering stabilizer" shocks that it appears Summit sells. Are the "rancho" a preferred shock or can somebody recommend something else.

What is the difference between regular shocks and the "stabilizer" ones?

Thanks all

[Burt4x4]

Lift up the front with a floor jack and have some one turn the wheel back and forth while you watch. Grab yer tire and try to rock the top & bottom in and out...if it does rock then your ball joints are shot, if it's stiff then they are fine. Grab your tierod and try to move it without movine the tires....if it rocks a bit yer tierods are shot.
Good luck

[Stocker]

Originally Posted by KyFarm

What is the difference between regular shocks and the "stabilizer" ones?

Shocks are designed to operate in vertical or near-vertical (angled) positions, and may have different jounce / rebound characteristics.

Steering stabilizers are designed for horizontal use and will have identical left / right (jounce / rebound) internal hydraulics.

[mud.man.rj]

A shock works one way a steering stabilizer works both ways, makes sense right because you steer both ways, did you check play in steering box also, check it all over first, but if the shocks are old and soft may have a shock on one side working better than the other side so hit a dip and the steering wheel will move to one side not stay straight.

[rayfinseats]

I would first check your steering box and all the ball joints for play.

[KyFarm]

Thanks everybody for all the info.

It might take me a week or so as I'm usually alone at the farm till the weekends, but I'm gonna do the checks above for the ball joints and tie rod ends.

It would make perfect sense that they all are very worn. Other than that i know for a fact that the shocks are old and soft.

Truck runs good and I'm interested in building it from frame out before i work on the motor or repaint. So new shocks don't scare me and unless the tie rods and ball joints are real close to new they will get replaced also.

I'll do my best to keep any changes made updated on this thread, though it might be a few weeks.

again thanks for the info

[KyFarm]

So I jacked up the front (one side at a time actually, first under the diff and then under the spring bolts) and pushed and pulled on the top of each front tire and they were both tight. I couldn't tell any movement at all. I also got underneath it and tried pushing the tie rod towards and away from the wheels and also tight.

What I did find though was the rear drivers side shock is making a rubbing squeaky noise on any vertical movement and the front shocks do not match each other or the rears and are both very old.

I'd say it was time for a set of shocks all the way around. Can somebody suggest something or just go with standard replacements.

I actually don't know how to adjust the steering box as recommended above, any pointers?

Thanks again

[mud.man.rj]

Steering box is easy, just a small amount at a time like a 1/8th of a turn clockwise. Look at top of box, see the nut, hold the center with an allen key so it doesn't turn (mark it first is the best) then loose nut a bit turn allen key a 1/8 -1/4 turn max and hold key from turning again then tighten nut, take it for a short ride, bring tools and keep adjusting, if you go to far with adjusting it takes up to much play and will get stiff when sterring because it is turning left and right at the same time without enough play,easy hey, you will catch on right away, I adjust all my old stuff and a lot of other projects too.

[Stocker]

For shocks that are an affordable step-up from OEM, I like KYB Gas-A-Justs. They are high-pressure nitrogen filled and contrary to their name, are not owner-adjustable. They have good firm control.... a bit firmer than OEM especially at first but they will soften up somewhat with use, still maintaining good control. They are holding up on my K20 much better than the previous Monroe Gas Magnums.

[SS Tim]

Be worth taking a look at the springs as well. Shot bushings in the springs hangers or shackles can let things flop around. Jack it back up and take a prybar to the springs and try moving them. Also look for a broken spring leaf.

[KyFarm]

finally got a matching set of shocks on it and a simple aftermarket steering stabilizer installed.

It does make a difference, not a ton but definitely better.

I really think these "futura"? brand 33 x 12 tires have a weak sidewall probably and are the real problem. They came on the truck and have about 80% tread on them though.

I have a set of 32 x 11.5 BFG mud-terrains that are like new but honestly I don't like driving those mud tires on the street.

Maybe I could sell all 8 and get some new quality 32's all-terrains.......

[mud.man.rj]

A radial has a more flexable side wall than a bias ply so will wiggle more but will ride a lot better on the street and usually wear better too.

[my4by2]

I had a cross over steering kit from WFO Concepts installed in my '77 K30 along with an AGR quick ratio box. I've driven it & there is quite a bit of difference in the overall steering feel - much more precise, WAY less bump steer & tracks down the road a lot better too! I'm not running a huge lift (2.5") or really tall tires (33") so can't say if it would help as much the larger you go, but I can't see why not...

[mud slut 350]

I put crossover steering on my 82 and wow way better offroad and on. The geometry of the stock setup amplified bump stear and is pretty scary at times when going down the road. crossover eliminates that and of course i back up all the previous posts they are well written and i would highly reccomend crossover steering to anyone but remember it will only work with a minimum of 4" lift but it is amazing.

[mknittle]

Originally Posted by wilkin250r

It's not just a "steering geometry" issue, because if that was the only issue the easiest way would be to make to make a new pitman arm with more drop to it.

The problem is, the normal setup is really bad, it just flexes all wrong, puts stress in the wrong area, it's barely adequate for the stock setup. It will actually wander a little bit with just the flex inherent in the system, and this obviously gets worse with bigger tires and more offset, and the linkage angles get worse with a lift.

The crossover system is theoretically the answer. Instead of the steering box controlling the driver-side wheel from fifteen inches away, it "crosses over" to the passenger side. This is the most natural and logical way to turn a wheel, by pushing an arm from a 90 degree angle away. This should reduce the effects of any flex in the system, and because you're crossing over to a wheel five feet away, the geometry doesn't change nearly as much with a lift or with suspension movement.

Now, this isn't based on actual experience, I don't have a crossover. But my experience with mechanical engineering tells me it will work better.

You are pretty close for having no experence with that type of setup. Still the drag link and tie rod have to be parellel to reduce bump steer/wandering.
the biggest problem that I have seen in my 30 Years of building 4wheel drives is Stock drag links are too short. the steering box center line should be as close as possable to the anhcored spring bolt.think 4 link it is the same motion{I have had good luck doing this}
But there is still the problem of when the springs move they move the axle closer and farther from the box. This is where the cross steer is better.That is if the draglink goes all the way across to the right hand knuckle.add parellel.
Mark