Rear Locker Question

[madchopper]

I have a GM 14 bolt rear open rear end that needs to be rebuilt, pinion bearings are going out. I would like to put a locker in when the rebuild gets done but not exactly sure on which type of locker to use. I use my 67 GMC K20 4x4 for both highway and off road when getting firewood or hunting trips. I do not like the one tire fire that I have right now.

I have heard very good things about the Eaton Detroit trutrac with no clutches to worry about, but will the rear end pop and bind on pavement and not dirt? The guy here in Spokane, WA that I was referred to recommends the Eaton Posi locker that is more forgiving on pavement but still does a very good job on dirt, mud, and snow. I am just not sold on the clutches w/i the locker and what would be the interval on when those need to be replaced or maintenance interval??? I have a 2007 Chevy 1/2T 4x4 work truck that has limited slip rear end and it does very good in the mud, snow, and dirt either in 2 or 4-wheeel drive. I work as a forester so it gets used regularly. Any thought advice or recommendations would be very helpful, Thanks.

[oldspowered67C10]

The Eaton tru-trac isnt a locker, its a gear type limited slip(google torsen for more info), its really smooth and wont usually ever wear out but is really better suited for the street. My experience with the tru-trac is that in the dirt its not that great, if one tire comes off the ground or totally loses traction it acts like a open diff and you need to apply the brakes a bit to get the tire w/ traction to move.
The eaton posi-traction isnt a locker either, its a clutch type limited slip. It works well for street and dirt but it will wear out eventually, may need to be rebuilt and will not completely lock the axles together. The Auburn is essentially the same thing but uses cones rather than clutches, some people like them, some dont, never had one myself so cant say for sure how good it is.
The eaton locker is a real locker, it actually locks the 2 axles together. Its the absolute best for the dirt and is practically indestructable but sometimes itll do funny stuff on the street like pop and steer the vehicle into the next lane although thats more of a problem in short wheel base vehicle like Jeeps.
For a truck that sees mostly off road, the locker is the way to go but for a mostly steet used vehicle that is used off road just sometimes the Id recommend the posi-traction.

[special-K]

The Tru-Trac is probably just what you want. The way I understand the Torsen type traction devices to work is the opposite of an open,as far as the power goes to the wheel with the most resistance where an open rear puts the power to the wheel with least resistance (the one in trouble). At least that's how Gleason Torsen diffs work. I have run the Tru-Trac and honestly never studied just what it did. But,I used it in the front for just the reason that it is strong,locks when needed,and allows different side to side wheel speed making it as close to a locker you can get for a front end,since a locker would only be good fir full time off road poor traction.
I have never had a Detroit Locker rear pop or pull a vehicle. They are blood simple. They do what their name says. You have both wheels in traction all the time. So,when making a tight turn,such as parking or making a right turn from a stop,you have to feather the throttle or spin the inner wheel. It just takes a technique to drive and there are no other problems,except times off road such as on a slippery hillside where you don't want both wheels under power and a locker will bring the rear around. Most times on and off throttle will correct,but when momentum is needed off throttle isn't an option, If you have the wiggle room you just steer to correct and crab your way out. But,if there's a tree...
If ockers were no good for the street they never would have been used in trucks made to register on the road. Lockers are bad for on road use just like low gears and mud tires. A 4wd that performs well off road is a compromise on road...and I love it! I like having something that can do what other vehicles can do (go down the road) and can do what other vehicles can't do (get anywhere off road). The 4wd may not go down the road with as much grace as a car,but a car (or factory equipped 4wd) can't go much of anywhere at all off road.

[pumpkin]

I have detriot lockers in my 3/4 ton long box pu, and in my Blazer. As long as both rear tires are the same diameter, and tire preasures are even there is no problem and they are almost unnoticeable. In a corner they unlock, and the vehicle is driven by the inner wheel. The only time that it locks, is if the inner tire tries to spin faster than the outer. Both trucks were my daily drivers, my wife, and kids both drove them with no problems. They will on occasion do a loud bang when they unlock, and if it starts to push the vehicle one way or the other, its letting you know you have a low tire, its my poor man tire preasure moniter system. I personaly don't like posi's, they have let me down too many times when I really needed them, a detroit is always predictable, you will never spin one tire.

[snj8198]

I've been running a Grizzly Locker for a few months now. I daily drive my '71 so it experience all types of on and off road conditions. I even pull a 12,000lb 31' 5th wheel camper with it. There is some compromise to be made in driving style with the locker, but over all I am very happy with my decision. Occasionally the locker pops and shakes the truck a bit but it's just letting me know it's still back there. If I only needed on road traction in a more finessed vehicle I would go with the TrueTrac. But for both on and off, summer and winter, I like my choice.

-steve

[madchopper]

Thanks guy’s for the all the insight and the differences between the limited slip and true lockers. I guess I have some thinking to do and have to see what Billy says about the Grizzlies or if he has ever put any in. I agree with sjn8198 that the weather here in Spokane is comparable to what you have in Kalispell, MT, so I might have to give the grizzly a try, mind askin what ya paid for it? I guess I am a littl on confused when you guys mention a new driving style? Does this mean no tight corners on paved surfaces or what I am I missin?

I was read on Eaton’s web site that the truetrac’s should not be used with tires over 32” inches? That just a little hard to believe to me, but that’s what is said right on the owner manual under operator precautions.

[longbed67]

Have you looked at Richmond Powertrax I put 15000+ miles a year on the street with my truck with about 45000 miles on the unit and zero problems. and yeah it will squeal the tire when you get on it in the corner because it locks the axles together but otherwise it is awesome for gaining that extra traction. and a big plus it you dont have to worry about paying someone to install it (takes about 45min to 1 hour) and you dont have to mess with backlash. and they cost about $300 give or take depending on your application

[oldspowered67C10]

Ive been installing alot of selectable lockers lately, mostly in the front axles of our off-road used service trucks, all the guys seem to love them. Been using the eaton(e-locker?) one, haven't had a failure yet and Ive put one in a 14,000 lb. f-450 service truck with a diesel that goes to some pretty remote sites. All the traction of a locker off-road and all the smoothness of a open diff on the street, another option to think about.

Regarding the tru-trac, I still wouldn't recommend one for the rear axle if off-road traction is your goal. There are some advantages to a tru-trac but most of those advantages are better used on the street. Whats cool about a tru-trac is that it only works under a load so when you go around a tight corner, as long as you're not under a load, it'll act like a open diff. Thats why road race guys like them, mid corner, when the car is neither accelerating of decelerating it wont try to steer the car like a posi might. What sucks about that is that like I said, if one tire lifts off the ground, no matter how much power you put to that axle, it cant create the load that the tru-trac needs to operate.

The first selectable locker I installed in a front axle was in a truck that had a tru-trac in the rear axle. Driver said that although the tru-trac worked great on solid surfaces, as soon as he got on to really loose ground it wasnt so good and he had to use the brakes to make it work.

Truthfully,Ive never thought of putting a tru-trac in the front axle but the more I think about it, the more sense it makes for a truck thats used alot on the street with occasional mild off-roading.

Anyway, I stand by my initial recommendation for the rear axle, lockers work the best off road but can be a bit annoying on the street. The tru-trac is the best on the street but under some off-road conditions, it doesn't work. And the posi, while its not the best anywhere, its also not the worst anywhere.

[Mike C]

If you are going to run an automatic locker in a full float 14, don't mess with a "lunchbox" locker. The Detroit drops into the two piece open case of the 14T just the same but much stronger. I have no beef with the Powertrax/Lockright/Spartan, etc. lockers and have a Lockright in my Dana 70HD on the dually and a Spartan in the front 60 in addition to a Dana 23 and a Dana 44. I broke an axleshaft on the 23 with no damage to the locker. Admittedly the 10 spline 23 axle ain't much to speak of...

[snj8198]

**This feedback regards the FF14 bolt application only.

The Grizzly locker is Yukon Gear's answer to Detroit's solid market share with 14 bolt lovers. If you look at them side by side they look all too similar. But Yukon, through some reverse engineering and listening to customer feedback on the Detroit, addressed the minor issues users had with the Detroit locker.

For ever, the 14 bolt Detroit locker could be had for $383.99 then a few years ago it jumped to roughly $425. When they first entered the 14 bolt market, Yukon strategically undercut Detroit's price for about 18 months to gain niche market traction and offered a "no questions asked" 1 year warranty. Now that they have gained attention from the 14 bolt crowd their prices have grown comparable with Detroit's.

The major issues Detroit users were experiencing were:

1: it was so tough that if a 14 bolt user did experience locker failure it often resulted in axle spline twist or total axle failure.

2: mall crawler crowds found them too harsh on the street.

Come to find out, the majority of 14 bolt Detroit locker sales are indeed to novelty users of the product. These users made note of the locker's harshness and burly, unfriendly on street mannerisms. (What did they expect?) This ideology is similar to one saying "I want a truck but I don't want it to ride like a truck" (which has castrated our consumer truck market IMHO.) Regardless, this feedback was carefully considered by Yukon and the end result is their Grizzly Locker which indeed is less harsh in typical locker mannerisms yet in structural design is every bit as tough as the Detroit Locker.

I agree with sjn8198 that the weather here in Spokane is comparable to what you have in Kalispell, MT, so I might have to give the grizzly a try, mind askin what ya paid for it?

I found mine used from a guy who changed directions on a project. Excellent deal.

I guess I am a littl on confused when you guys mention a new driving style? Does this mean no tight corners on paved surfaces or what I am I missin?

That's about it sir. You'll want to coast through corners and not power into sharp turns or you'll lock the rear and squeal tires. Don't get wrong, it's neat! But it tends to shave the life off tires quick and also gets you noticed by Johny Law, both by which are pricey. Don't forget the adverse weather conditions we get in our regions. Stick your truck sideways on an icy highway at 60 and your ass will take a bite right out of your seat!

To be perfectly honest, i hardly know it's back there except for an occasional bang or pop when unlocking in certain circumstances.

oldspowered67C10:

I completely agree that selectable is the route to go. However, as you know, only the ARB air locker is available for the FF14 bolt crowd. This is a $1000 affair plus the cost of a compressor. That'a a bit rich for most blood.

-steve

[madchopper]

Thanks guys al the info really help, I think i will give the grizzly or the deroit a try with waranty and all. I would love to have the ARB air locker but I agree with steve that is a bit much from my blood too.