Points or HEI?

[dtkarst]

Im sure most will hands down say I should get an HEI but Ill see what everyone thinks. Im still working on getting my 61 K10 running and cannot figure out the vacuum advance so I have been pondering an hei change over. Anyone know what it would take to do it and how much easier it would be if any? Dont really know what to do with it. Thanks

[C10 - C90 Bill]

I've been running points for years and have no problems. I haven't switch one over yet.

Bill

[Wrenchbender Ret]

The HEI is a great improvement over the points. I'm not sure what you mean by vacuum advance problems but the HEI uses the same type system. I understand the engine in a 4x4 sets back further. If there is a clearance problem you might need to put a electronic convertion kit in the stock dist.

[j.kirn]

I Would like to know what sort of problem your having with the vacuum advance it is really simple to figure out how it works and very easy to replace, i have no problem with points in my trucks

[jocko]

Do you want a system you never have to do maintenance on, or do you want one that looks original and works fine with scheduled maintenance? If you must have both, then the only really option out there is a pertronix swap. Google this site for more opinions on pertronix, but everybody seems to have a far left or far right opinion on it.

[zippeay]

I have Pertronix on my 348 and I've been driving it for over 3 years and never had a problem.
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[HEI451]

Well, there seems to be a small bit of misinformation in this topic.

First, is this an inline 6 engine, 216/235? If so, then the vacuum advance bolts to the block, and the distributor is turned in the block from it. If you have one of these setups, timing and the vacuum advance can be confusing over the way a V8 works.

Easiest way to get the timing set on an I6 216/235 is to set the vacuum advance in the center of its slot on the advance housing, and lock it down to the block with the hold down bolt. Then, disconnect the vacuum advance vacuum feed line and plug it on the carb end. Fire the engine up, let it idle, and loosen the clamp that holds the distributor to the vacuum advance just enough to get the distributor to turn, and set the timing. tighten the clamp, reconnect the vacuum advance feed line. Done.

Checking the mechanical advance with the engine running is the same as a V8, leave the vacuum advance feed line disconnected and plugged, read the timing changes as you rev the engine. If out of spec/locked up, check the parts for wear, replace as needed, service the mechanical advance.

V8, a lot easier. if the engine doesn't have an active EGR valve, use full manifold vacuum. ALL GM vacuum advances need a stop set up for the pull pin. to limit the pin travel to .112 for 10 crankshaft degrees of vacuum advance timing. Active and functioning EGR valve, same pin pull stop distance, ported vacuum sourcing. No pin travel stop, engine WILL be over timed. Most stock GM V8 point distributors came with a short section of vacuum hose fitted over the point plate pull pin on the advance, to stop down the number of degrees the vacuum advance gave. Replacement advances do not come with this stop, but, short section of vacuum hose the correct diameter for the poin, works right.

Now, the extremely erroneous statement above is disturbing, and is the main reason we find so many completely worn out mechanical advance sets and shaft to armature lockup, "Do you want a system you never have to do maintenance on". This is right at just plain irresponsible. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE IN MAINTENANCE BETWEEN A V8 POINT GM DISTRIBUTOR, AND THE COIL IN CAP LARGE DIAMETER HEI, SAME-SAME MECHANICAL SETUP, SAME MAINTENANCE. This fallacy is the main reason we see so many large cap HEI's with weight pins and weight holes completely worn away, someone told the owner that "they don't need maintenance", so, they didn't get any, and wore right out.

Yes, electronic systems don't require as much maintenance as a point distributor on electronics, but, let the mechanical part of it go un-worked, it'll fail.

[ole dollor]

drkarst: i just installed a hei external coil set up on a 1956 261 motor, and it was a very simple swap, the guy i did it for is a good friend , and he loves the set up, its in an old winch truck that is used maybe 6 times a year,and now it starts like a new truck, the hei setup came from a guy named grumpy truck or something like that. that guy knows everything about the old chevy 6 cyl. the dist. looks like your old one , and the coil we got was the square one, but he also has the round ones also...if this is what you decide to do.....

[HEI451]

Stovebolt Engine Company does a small, remote coil HEI for the early Chevy/GMC inline's, built from an early S10 distributor.

[dtkarst]

THanks for the suggestions guys. I am still trying to get it started and running but it just wont do it. Lines are all clear and it tries to fire but itll blow a flame through the carb a few times and almost run but hasnt done it yet. I ask about the distributer stuff because it acts like its not set right or something..so I was thinking if i put an hei in it and try to do something thats a little more simple possibly that it would help out.

[fleetsidelarry]

sounds like it may just be timing. if you had the distributor out, you may have put it back in 180° out, or you may have some plug wires crossed.

you may have said in another thread but, remind us what engine you have and what you've done recently, that is, is this a rebuild you're trying to start or a motor that's sat for a while?

[ole dollor]

hei451: thats the place i was speaking of...stovebolt engine company .not sure why grumpys trucks came to mind.....good product...

[dtkarst]

Its a motor thats sat for awhile. and it is a 235. Its close to starting with new points and condensor but just wont do it

[dtkarst]

I havent had the distributor out at all everything is basically untouched until i bought it. it just wont fire for me. I have tons of spark but no running truck. Not sure what to do next.

[fleetsidelarry]

Is this the '61 that you said a while back you were going to pick up?

if so, was it running when you got it? if it wasn't, any idea how long the truck sat?

good spark is good! now you need to determine if it's getting to the plugs at the right time and in the right order. Assuming for now that the cam and valvetrain are OK, then it's a fuel/carb problem.

are you familiar with how to set the timing on this engine?

[NCD1966]

I would convert points to a Pertronix kit. HEI is a great setup but its kinda bulky and not original looking.

I converted my dads 1953 ford tractor to a pertronix Ignitor kit and never had to change points again, it was too easy to install

[dtkarst]

When I bought it it was one of those "I had it running a couple weeks ago" kind of thing when i first put a battery in it while it was on the trailer with the help of a little fuel, it started ran for about one second real rough then nothing. Everything looks alright and it turns over nicely but cant get it up and running. This is the first I6 I have ever worked on and about the second i have ever really been around. At the moment, not looking original is fine as long as i can drive it around the farm. I have big plans for it some day just not any time soon since im only 21 and in school haha Anyone volunteer to come help me or show how to get it running? The beer is on me!

[ole dollor]

i would be willing to help....if you were a little closer....

[ole dollor]

give the points a good filing ,and check the gap, make sure they open and close, leave the key on and take a screw driver and see if they spark or hold the coil wire and see if it bite's you....while
someone tries to start it....

if its getting fire then try and keep it running on gas but be carefull not to start a fire....squirt a little at a time...

[dtkarst]

POints are brand new and they have a lot of spark. The main question I am asking is would it be easier and cheaper to do rid of the vacuum advance and put an HEI in or something like that to solve the Problem?

[ole dollor]

personally i would get it running before i did anything else....see what ya have then go from there...

[Shaun1162]

I'm no mechanic, and I might be wrong, but I don't think vacuum advance is the problem. The 350 in my truck ran alright even though the vacuum advance wasn't working. And if you switch to HEI, you'll still have a vacuum advance.

The only thing I could see that would do it would be the timing is way off like someone said, but I don't have any idea beyond that...

[fleetsidelarry]

to answer to original question, I'd say "not at this time"

my logic would be that, since you don't know what the problem is, and, in this type of situation the problem is just as likely fuel related as it is ignition/timing, and you DO have good spark, you don't NEED an HEI to get the truck running.

since you have good spark, the next thing to verify is that it's happening at the right time, so,

1. since it did run briefly when you got it and you didn't move the distributor, you COULD assume (for the moment) that the timing is OK (if you gapped the new points properly). if you assume the timing is OK, then move on to the other possible cause (fuel/carb)

2. if you don't want to assume that the timing is OK, then check it. Again, are you familiar with setting the timing on this engine? if not we can help

these types of problems can be ignition OR fuel related and my suspicion is that you have a fuel/carb problem. first of all, the gasoline in any vehicle that has sat for some time is suspect.

[dtkarst]

Did all the timing nonsense and everything else I can think of which leaves me with one other culprit that I can think of which is fuel. Im going to take the gas tank out clean it within an inch of its life, clean up the sending unit that it has since it isnt very old, blow the lines out again and install a new fuel pump and go from there. I hope this works im out of ideas

[TopFuel1966]

If she's backfiring thru the carb while cranking then in all probability there is a cylinder that is firing before the intake valve is completely closed and that's a camshaft - ignition timing issue.