A Sprinter diesel swap?

[mani]

At the risk of getting boo-ed out of here, I'm a bit fed up with the 13mpg I get with my '65 I6 250 T5 C-10 Short-fleet. I love the truck, but we're not going back to $1.50/gal gas. Given that and I just bought a VW TDI Passat and get out of the box 43mpg. No joke. And that's with a stick and I hardly can use 6th as its so damn tall... The torque is fantastic. So I been thinking about a good diesel stick swap and not a Cummings boat anchor fuel hog. I've been eyeing a Mercedes Sprinter Van 2500 or 3500 motor with a 5spd. They are out there in the junk yards to be had and have been made for decades in europe, so have a good track record. Anyone had the guts to try this in our beloved C-10? I can fab mounts no problem. (NOTE: I did not say a Ford, Mopar or rice motor swap, so don't slam me for too much heresy). I didn't get any hits on searching this. Thoughts?

[kwin]

Originally Posted by mani

At the risk of getting boo-ed out of here, I'm a bit fed up with the 13mpg I get with my '65 I6 250 T5 C-10 Short-fleet. I love the truck, but we're not going back to $1.50/gal gas. Given that and I just bought a VW TDI Passat and get out of the box 43mpg. No joke. And that's with a stick and I hardly can use 6th as its so damn tall... The torque is fantastic. So I been thinking about a good diesel stick swap and not a Cummings boat anchor fuel hog. I've been eyeing a Mercedes Sprinter Van 2500 or 3500 motor with a 5spd. They are out there in the junk yards to be had and have been made for decades in europe, so have a good track record. Anyone had the guts to try this in our beloved C-10? I can fab mounts no problem. (NOTE: I did not say a Ford, Mopar or rice motor swap, so don't slam me for too much heresy). I didn't get any hits on searching this. Thoughts?

I spent a year managing a fleet that ran several of these diesel Sprinters. I would be cautious, they are not terrible but... when they fail they are incredibilly expensive to repair. Other issues would come down to computer and wiring, these things are complicated enough that lots of Dodge dealers up here will not look at them.
I don't know about in the US but in Canada they are sold and serviced by Dodge.

[markeb01]

I’ve never seen or heard of this swap, but it seems like a reasonable idea. The weight of the host vehicle should be somewhere close to a 60-66 truck, so you wouldn’t be asking the engine to perform beyond its abilities. Trucks on here are lowered, raised, shortened, hot rodded, restored, and customized, so a German engine swap shouldn’t seem all that peculiar. Other than being on your own for aftermarket installation help, the only negative aspects I can think of would be the unjustifiable cost of diesel fuel today, and the imported cost of Mercedes engine parts should they be needed in the future.

[piratexpress1369a]

that sounds like a plan ..sprinter would have good torque ..but can you get it to work

[1963c-10]

I dont knock it, it still says chevy on the outside. I know alot of guys are powerplant pureists...but I say do what works for your budget. Theres noting wrong with thinking outside the box. 50,000 rat rods have proved that.

[mikesacs]

Check out 4btswap.com they have tons of info on many different diesel swaps. I'm currently installing a 6.2 diesel in my 60. I did look at the 4cyl before going with the 6.2. Even test drove a 4bt. I do have a build thread on here, search "mike's 60 suburban" if you want to know more.
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[mani]

Originally Posted by mikesacs

Check out 4btswap.com they have tons of info on many different diesel swaps. I'm currently installing a 6.2 diesel in my 60. I did look at the 4cyl before going with the 6.2. Even test drove a 4bt. I do have a build thread on here, search "mike's 60 suburban" if you want to know more.
Posted via Mobile Device

Ok I'll check that out. I have been kicking this idea around for a while and the 6.2 was first in my mind, with lack of a computer and all that complicated mess. That said, figuring out a stick to go with it and all that had me at a loss...

[jimmydean]

I still want to do a 4BT swap or something similar. So many solid options for a good diesel.

[theastronaut]

Before I'd do an engine swap, I'd try tuning the engine that's in it now. I took my VW bug from getting 24 highway mpg with a completely stock 1600, to 36.25 mpg by changing to dual two barrel carbs with better idle circuit metering, ratio rockers, and a header/exhaust. I could have added a combo centrifugal/vacuum advance distributor and picked up 3-4 more mpg.

Start by getting an air/fuel ratio gauge so you can know exactly how lean/rich you're running, and use that as a guide to change your jets to get better mileage. You can run 16.5-17.0 AFR under light loads on the idle circuit if you're running a combination centrifugal and vacuum advance distributor. Running that lean under light loads won't burn anything up; 14.7:1 is where the most heat is and on either side of that the chamber runs cooler. You'll need about 8-10 degrees more vacuum advance under light loads to fully burn a leaner mixture (this is why you need a centrifugal and vac distributor). I bet you'll see a huge difference by optimizing the timing and jetting alone, and you already have an overdrive T5 trans to help. You may have to change manifolds to get an even A/F ratio between the cylinders, the factory ones don't do a good job at that. A dual carb manifold will help with that, and they make them with manifold heat to help vaporize the fuel.

[kwin]

After taking care of these things for a year I know what I would do, like the previous post stated make the most of what you have, if that does not do it for you weigh your increased fuel economy against the cost of the swap, and be realistic. If it takes you 5 years or more to recoup your investment you may want to think twice.
If it were me I would look at some of the diesels from the orient, izusu for example, and they have a GM conection that may make it easier to live with!
LOL

[ChiefRocka]

I read a topic online at one time where a guy swapped a 4 cyl diesel out of one of those smaller, GMC cabover box trucks into an S-10.

Seemed like an easy swap.
Posted via Mobile Device while driving

[BR3W CITY]

Originally Posted by mani

At the risk of getting boo-ed out of here, I'm a bit fed up with the 13mpg I get with my '65 I6 250 T5 C-10 Short-fleet. I love the truck, but we're not going back to $1.50/gal gas. Given that and I just bought a VW TDI Passat and get out of the box 43mpg. No joke. And that's with a stick and I hardly can use 6th as its so damn tall... The torque is fantastic. So I been thinking about a good diesel stick swap and not a Cummings boat anchor fuel hog. I've been eyeing a Mercedes Sprinter Van 2500 or 3500 motor with a 5spd. They are out there in the junk yards to be had and have been made for decades in europe, so have a good track record. Anyone had the guts to try this in our beloved C-10? I can fab mounts no problem. (NOTE: I did not say a Ford, Mopar or rice motor swap, so don't slam me for too much heresy). I didn't get any hits on searching this. Thoughts?

It CUMMINS, and even a 12v cummins "boat anchor" is twice the motor that the sprinter engine is. Are they fuel effecient? NO, but thats not really the point of something that can tug a freight train.

And you basically DID say you wanted to do a Mopar swap....they had dodge badges

Now that I'm done being a hater.....I will say that I agree about caution with the Sprinter engines. My brothers dad is a 35+ yr Chrylser tech for a medium duty retailer here in WI. 95% of his job is troubleshooting and adding custom features to fleet Sprinters and similar.
They have about 10miles of wiring, and they use something similar to a Body Control Module for many of the features. Unlike many chevy's however, you can't just "disregard" the bcm as it interfaces with the engine computer for certain features. IIRC things like Cruise control and some gauge cluster functions, A/c, remote start and parking lights are routed through it.

I'm all for a cool diesel swap, but I'd shoot a little lower tech for your source. The 4bt is a cool engine...there was someone who posted a Toro Flow recently as well....although that won't fit your bill for fuel economy.

What about finding a 300td engine? Its still a mercedes, but its been proven to run forever on anything. They deliver high 20's all day long, and parts are READILY available. There is enough room for it, and you can find wiring and swap info all over the net. I don't know trans options for the 300's however.

[joedoh]

average miles driven per year 13000


13000/30mpg = 433.3 gallons per year @ 3.89 gal diesel = $1685.53
13000/17mpg = 764.7 gallons per year @ 3.39 gal reg gas = $2592.35

$906 dollars per year savings.

figure you will spend a minimum of 4k for the swap (checking ebay the lowest motor only is 2k) with trans and all the gear to make it run, thats over 4 years before you break even. I think you will agree I was pretty generous with numbers, 30mpg is more than the sprinter gets, I paid about that for regular at my last fillup and diesel is over $4 here.

sorry, but this reminds me of the logic of buying a new 28k prius to get rid of the paid off suburban "gas hog".

now if you just want to do it, go ahead, sounds like a neat swap, take lots of pics.

[hop sing]

Originally Posted by mikesacs

Check out 4btswap.com they have tons of info on many different diesel swaps. I'm currently installing a 6.2 diesel in my 60. I did look at the 4cyl before going with the 6.2. Even test drove a 4bt. I do have a build thread on here, search "mike's 60 suburban" if you want to know more.
Posted via Mobile Device

X 2 been looking for a 4bt ,would like to put in my 2wd 63 carry all wish i could find a 60-61 carry all 2wd frame they are boxed front frame and torrison bar frt ends i think they would handle the weight better and torque,,i think with a strong turbo 400 and 3.55 u be doing good just my 2cents also want to make my on fuel

[theastronaut]

Joedoh hit the nail on the head. The VW forum I frequent has a 40+ page topic on building high mpg engines, with guys planning out $4000-$7000 dollar builds. Very few there could grasp the concept that you have to figure in the cost of the engine, not just that it's getting better mileage. There's no reason that the current 250 with the T5 can't get 20-25 mpg if it's tuned right. Our '97 S10 SS with a 4.3 (262ci), T5, and 3.08 gear got 24mpg on a 165 mile trip from upstate SC to Pigeon Forge, going through mountain roads. The key is getting the air/fuel ratio leaned out during low loads, and adjusting the timing to match.
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[padresag]

Originally Posted by theastronaut

Joedoh hit the nail on the head. The VW forum I frequent has a 40+ page topic on building high mpg engines, with guys planning out $4000-$7000 dollar builds. Very few there could grasp the concept that you have to figure in the cost of the engine, not just that it's getting better mileage. There's no reason that the current 250 with the T5 can't get 20-25 mpg if it's tuned right. Our '97 S10 SS with a 4.3 (262ci), T5, and 3.08 gear got 24mpg on a 165 mile trip from upstate SC to Pigeon Forge, going through mountain roads. The key is getting the air/fuel ratio leaned out during low loads, and adjusting the timing to match.
Posted via Mobile Device

it is really tough to get fuel mileage out of an aerodynamic brick going down the road. I drove a 4-53 detroit in mine for 18 years. it was a fairly economical engine in that application as one of the pros, but they do have their cons too. 1. they love to be working. their weight does take a toll as the vehicles are really not designed to carry that weight. i never had heat , never carried on a conversation with anyone. didn't matter to the dogs though. it always garnered attention.. the final reason that I pulled it was that I was driving it far enough anymore to get it up to temperature and it was starting to slobber.
when I took the winch bumper off, pulled the eng and trans(5 speed o/d) it came up 3 1/2". put a 283 and a t5 in, it di go down a 1/4". there was a weight reduction of about 1200lbs. considerations.
ron

[ky-donzi]

I building a truck out of 5 other trucks, Im using a 4bt cummins, muncie465 (4 speed) NP 205 married transfer case on a 80' suburban frame, it is using a dana60 front and 70 rear with dual tires. Going with a flat dump bed. I have a 61 GMC cab. I added a ranger torque splitter for more gears. The build is in it infancy, but so far I have done well with the cost by shopping aroung and not getting in a hurry. Craigslist is a great source for frito-lay trucks with 4bts. Apperantly 20-22 mpg is in the acheivable with this set up, have talked with owners of similar rigs. I plan to post pics of the build once I get the frame painted.

[dieseldude4bt]

get busy and paint, I want to see pics!
It was good talking to you, hope it helped sum.

[pope]

Run several 12 valve 5.9 cummins that were far form hogs 22+ mpg and power to spare. The 4 cylinder 3.9 can be plenty econimical as well' is a good fit for the room, and they were mechanical so all you need is power to run the fuel shut off solenoid. GM transmission adapters are easy to find for them. Keep in mind as stated above the mercedes are expensive for parts and fully electronic. I have done a few diesel swaps using Detroit, Perkins, and Cummins. For all three the mileage was worth the change, as well as the cool factor. Good luck which ever way you go!