firing order question

[slugish]

when I had my engine out ,Imarked the plug wires & where they go on the distributer. But when Ilooked in the Haynes manual for these trucks ,it had the firing order different than the way they were on there.
Is firing order on a msd dist different than stock
Ifirst hooked them up the way they were > truck would not even try to start

changed the firing orderto what haynes said > would not start.

Have installed the dist. every way possible > advanced the timing > did spark test --compression test -is getting gas .

In my other post ,Iwas wondering if this mystery wire may have anything to do with it not firing.

[Keith Seymore]

Should be the same with the MSD as without - 1 8 4 3 6 5 7 2

Make sure it's timed right: if you've got spark (at the right time) and gas, it should go.

K

[old blue 86]

Firing order on a chevy v-8 is 18436572 looking down on the dist.
The rotor goes clockwise looking from the top.
Usually number 1 with a hei is closest to the carb. just to the right
of center (but number 1 can be any where as long as they go in order).
Odd cyl. on the drivers side, evens on the pass. #1 & #2 are at the front
of the engine.

[71swb4x4]

Start with the basics. Find top dead center and see where the rotor is pointing, now you know where you should start 1 on the distributor. If no fire check for spark. If spark check for fuel. Start at the beginning and work your way forward.

[slugish]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

Should be the same with the MSD as without - 1 8 4 3 6 5 7 2

Make sure it's timed right: if you've got spark (at the right time) and gas, it should go.

K

Ok when I put distributer in when engine is at tdc ,there are only 2 spots Ican get the dist. to drop fully in . tHESE 2 SPOTS ARE 180 DEGREES FROM EACH OTHER.

qUESTION: Does it make any difference which spot the dist goes in as long as the rotor is pointing to the #1 plug terminal on the dist.&the firing order will start from there.

Ive been told Ihave to point rotor at #1 plug
Also to point rotor at #6 plug if pointing it at #1 does not work ??

dazed & confused here Will

[71swb4x4]

The reason it will only drop in two places is because of the oil pump shaft. If the oil pump shaft is not the correct place simply take a long screwdriver and move the oil pump shaft.
As you drop the distributor in it will rotate a little as it meshes with the cam gear. Take that into account as you drop it down. You want the rotor pointing toward #1 on the distributor cap once the distributor settles into place.

[mopar346]

Wish you were closer, I'd run over. Have you ever verified that you are getting spark? Did you deal with the vavles?

Pretty basic, compressor, fuel and spark at the right time and it goes vroom.

[Bigblocker]

Pointing rotor at number one Cylinder always works for me. Just make sure you line up the oil pump. I think this is one of the hardest things to get use to doing. Especially if someone is watching you try to do it. Get to tdc and point rotor at number 1 try to drop in then look and line up oil pump. Should work good worst case is you are 180 out and you will know that right away
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[slugish]

Can I just take the dist. cap off > leave the dist in > rotate crank to tdc > then put my cap back on making sure rotor is pointing to #1 plug terminal on dist. cap .

What I have been doing is taking the dist. completely out , getting to tdc on the compression stroke , then putting the dist in where it drops all the way down > then lining rotor up with #1 plug terminal .

Msd you tube video says set initial timing at approx 12 degrees before tdc ( not at actual tdc)

In other words can,t Ijust leave dist in once Iget it to settle , then bump to tdc (or 12 degreesbefore) then get # 1 to line up with rotor.

[Bigblocker]

It sounds like your oil pump is throwing you off. Are you using hei with vacuums advance? Your distributor goes in right or wrong once it is in there is minimal adjustment thought adjusting the whole distributor.the rotor does not adjust. Just picture exactly that is doing. It is a meshing with a gear on the cam and slipping over the oil pump. Sounds like your real close. Pull tdc look in the distributor hole look at the oil pump shaft. Hold the distributor over the whol the way you want it. Take note of what way the oil pump slot is in the distributor gear then adjust the oil pump to match that. Not to confuse you but take into consisting as it drops through the cam gear it will spin just a little bit. So consider this as you adjust the oil pump. If you agave more problems message me I will give you my number and try to walk you through it..
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[71swb4x4]

Originally Posted by slugish

Can I just take the dist. cap off > leave the dist in > rotate crank to tdc > then put my cap back on making sure rotor is pointing to #1 plug terminal on dist. cap .

What I have been doing is taking the dist. completely out , getting to tdc on the compression stroke , then putting the dist in where it drops all the way down > then lining rotor up with #1 plug terminal .

Msd you tube video says set initial timing at approx 12 degrees before tdc ( not at actual tdc)

In other words can,t Ijust leave dist in once Iget it to settle , then bump to tdc (or 12 degreesbefore) then get # 1 to line up with rotor.

You can do what you want here. The problem may be, that #1 is on the opposite side of the cap as normal, and your wires won't fit properly as you run them to the sparkplugs.

[bigredchevy]

[geezer#99]

I think all you guys missed the boat!
I'd bet he has one of those distributor caps that change the firing order on the cap so that 2,4,6,8 are on the passenger side of the cap and 1,3,5,7 are on the drivers side.
I can't remember what you call them but they're out there.
They're designed to make the wire routing not look so cluttered.
What was the firing order you had marked originally?

Found one. Called crossfire caps.
http://www.crossfiredistributorcaps....or-Cap-p1.html

[Firebirdjones]

It's easy, but it's been explained so many ways it sounds confusing

Like these guys are saying,,,,here's how I do it.

I prefer my rotor to point towards the #1 cyl, this seems to position the vacuum advance in a decent 7 or 8 o'clock position and gives me room to rotate the distributor without obstruction and easily access the adjust vacuum advance I like to run. Okay with that said.


Bring the engine to TDC on the compression stroke. Distributor in or out doesn't matter. I personally like to rotate the engine past TDC to about 12 degrees advance on the balancer so you have some advance built in and it starts a little easier.

Set rotor towards #1 cylinder. Pull distributor to do so, and you will have to use a long screw driver to set the oil pump shaft to allow the distributor to drop in fully. Just look at the bottom of the distributor inside the gear, that pin in relation to how the rotor button points will give you a good idea where you want the oil pump shaft to sit.

Drop distributor in, install cap and take notice where the rotor button is,,,that's going to be your #1 wire. Then install the rest of the wires per firing order clockwise around the cap.

Now for the trick I use....

Install your timing light, turn key on. Now you can hold the trigger on the timing light and slowly move the distributor back and forth. When it fires the timing light,,,then it's in time well enough for the engine to start at the first hit of the key. This little trick is great when firing a new engine to break in the cam so you aren't cranking forever.

Once running, simply set timing.

[slugish]

Thx to all for the advice . Finally can get engine to fire sometimes by moving the dist around. ,but it will start to fire then quit . Won,t run for any lenghth of time . Funny ,when it 1st fired it ran for a while before Icut it off . then after that it hits but dosent run . Think Iwill try firebird jones tip on the timing lig`ht.

By the way Idont have a vacuum advance on my msd dist. (or do I)If so where would it be .

Ifinally got dist. in right (Ithink) by getting the dist to settle in all the way down ,left the cap off & just kept rotating the crank by hand till tdc & rotor was pointing at # 1 plug. Oh Well whatever works --RIGHT !

[mopar346]

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

Now for the trick I use....

Install your timing light, turn key on. Now you can hold the trigger on the timing light and slowly move the distributor back and forth. When it fires the timing light,,,then it's in time well enough for the engine to start at the first hit of the key. This little trick is great when firing a new engine to break in the cam so you aren't cranking forever.

Once running, simply set timing.

That's pretty smart, never heard that one.

Slugish, MSD with vacuum will have a vacuum canister and a place for a vacuum line essentially in the stock location, if not it is a mechanical vacuum. Most store stock mechanicals are around 14-16* advance and most of the time in by 2500 RPM or so, which in most stockish engines is OK but not otimal. Once you have it up and running reasonably well we can talk about checking and setting total advance and when it should come in.

[Bigblocker]

Did you buy the Msd distributor new?? Mechanical advance distributors can be set up a bunch of ways. I run a 555ci motor in my camaro and the distrubutor is locked out so all advancing happens through a digital 7 programmable box. With that you can spin that distributor and put #1 where you want it. The advancing would not be doin anything to start it I don't think. I have screwed this up a bunch of times and always end up 180 out and buying carb parts due to backfiring through carb or catching carb on fire. Woops. You sound close. And that timing light trick sounds like a keeper. You may want to look into what that advance is set to for future though.
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[slugish]

Originally Posted by mopar346

That's pretty smart, never heard that one.

Slugish, MSD with vacuum will have a vacuum canister and a place for a vacuum line essentially in the stock location, if not it is a mechanical vacuum. Most store stock mechanicals are around 14-16* advance and most of the time in by 2500 RPM or so, which in most stockish engines is OK but not otimal. Once you have it up and running reasonably well we can talk about checking and setting total advance and when it should come in.

timing light trick did not work for me > cut ignition on > moved dist. around but could not get light on timer to flash.

Thx.

[slugish]

Originally Posted by Bigblocker

Did you buy the Msd distributor new?? Mechanical advance distributors can be set up a bunch of ways. I run a 555ci motor in my camaro and the distrubutor is locked out so all advancing happens through a digital 7 programmable box. With that you can spin that distributor and put #1 where you want it. The advancing would not be doin anything to start it I don't think. I have screwed this up a bunch of times and always end up 180 out and buying carb parts due to backfiring through carb or catching carb on fire. Woops. You sound close. And that timing light trick sounds like a keeper. You may want to look into what that advance is set to for future though.
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yea ,bought new from summitt > also have a msdal box. > Is that the advance mechanism ?

[Bigblocker]

No the advance is in the distributor. There are springs and bushings that work off rpm. I would think That timing light trick with a Msd box would work good?
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[Firebirdjones]

Originally Posted by slugish

timing light trick did not work for me > cut ignition on > moved dist. around but could not get light on timer to flash.

Thx.

Then don't bother trying to start it,,,,something else is amiss.

[Firebirdjones]

Originally Posted by Bigblocker

No the advance is in the distributor. There are springs and bushings that work off rpm. I would think That timing light trick with a Msd box would work good?
Posted via Mobile Device

Yes it works with any distributor, MSD, Points, HEI, you name it. Since it's not working for him, he still has an issue somewhere. Either the distributor isn't lined up with his #1 wire when he is trying to light off the timing light,,,,or the MSD isn't wired correctly, or.....

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

or the MSD isn't wired correctly, or.....

I'd start looking there....

K

[mopar346]

You would think though if he got it to fire once then the MSD is wired correctly - short of a loose/bad connection. One of the challenges of electronics is that if the concern is intermitent it can kick your butt trying to figure it out.

Go back through everything from square one double checking settings, wiring, connection, etc. I'm with Firebird, something else is amiss. This really a basic fire up operation done in minutes most of the time.

[Firebirdjones]

MSD's are sensitive to grounds so that's something to look at. I have 3 setups here using their stuff (digi 6 boxes) and I believe I have the grounds running straight to the neg battery terminals. Rest of cars are grounded very well too (body to frame/engine to frame/etc...)

Been years since I wired these up so I'd have to check to be certain (memory fade )