Please help with electric windows. - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

Jdlawrence1 · 08-15-2012, 10:24 PM

Hey guys I need some help with my 1980 Chevy pickups electric windows. The driver window works great. However I wanted to roll down the passenger window. It has power at the switch and when you push the button up there is power to that side of the switch and vise versa when pushed down. The motor is good as I just replaced it. I ran a ground to the opposite side of the switch and the window worked. For example if I wanted the window to go up I could push the window button up and touch a ground to the down side of the switch and the window goes up. It does that for the switches on both sides. So I assume that means the switches are probably good.

Please any advise as to what the problem is would be awesome.
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1981Stepside · 08-15-2012, 10:34 PM

Sounds like a bad drivers side switch. IIRC, the passenger side switch grounds through the main driver side. So the master switch is not providing ground to the passenger side function or to the passenger side switch. It still provides power to both as you are able to ground the switch directly and the window functions.

Jdlawrence1 · 08-15-2012, 10:50 PM

Thank you 1981 stepside. Just to double check but I can do the same direct ground on the driver side switch and it will let the passenger window function. So with that said you still think its the switch?
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BLE 'BURBAN · 08-15-2012, 11:38 PM

Also check the wiring inside the door jams. G.M. wiring is NOTORIOUS for breaking apart in these areas over time especially the drivers side. Just like bending a wire hanger back and forth continuosly causes it to break in two, so will over time,the wires in the door jams break apart from metal fatigue.

tucsonjwt · 08-16-2012, 12:26 AM

I have been around the power window rosie many times on my 83. My advice: stick a 12 volt tester in the end of the connector at the end of the cable to the motor, then operate the switch. If the tester lights up you have power to the motor. However, you can have intermittent power, which drives me crazy.

In my experience, the connector at the switch is the culprit. The little contacts in the connectors get loose/worn out and don't make good contact. You can still get the short cable to the switch - post back if you want the info on this.

Also, I got a bad Delco motor once (I would only buy Delco, since they are cheap if you use the online OEM websites to buy them.) The connector on the end of the Delco motor was loose and not making good contact. I found this out by jiggling the connector harness to the motor as I operated the switch. Still, I would stick with Delco on the motor, and the Delco catalog also has the short harness to the switch.

1981Stepside · 08-16-2012, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jdlawrence1

Thank you 1981 stepside. Just to double check but I can do the same direct ground on the driver side switch and it will let the passenger window function. So with that said you still think its the switch?
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Just for clarification, when you say you are directly grounding the driver side switch, are you refering to the location of the switch (master switch) or are you refering to the driver side function switch (the left side of the two)?

If you are grounding the passenger function switch (right side of two) on the driver side switch (master switch), then I would call the switch as the culprit. You are manually providing the ground that the switch should do automatically when the switch position is reversed (window up/down)

If you are grounding the driver function switch (left side of two) and the passenger side window is functioning, then you have a bigger wiring issue.

Jdlawrence1 · 08-16-2012, 08:33 AM

Thanks to everyone who has given me advice on this issue. And 1981 stepside I have been doing it on the function switches. And it's using the right side of the dual switch on the driver door. So you say there is a master switch somewhere that could be the issue? Or is the switch on the driver door the master switch. And to the possible wire break in the door jamb how do you get to it without pulling a fender off? The black rubber boot is riveted on at the door.
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1981Stepside · 08-16-2012, 09:04 AM

I was refering to the dual switch on the driver door as the master switch. I believe that is causing your problem.

As for the broken wire in the door, the easiest way is to get a multimeter with a continuity function ( http://www.ladyada.net/library/metertut/continuity.html ) disconnect the pigtail from the switch and attach one probe lead to the wire in question and attach the other probe lead somewhere on the same wire inside the cab after is passes through the door jamb

Jdlawrence1 · 08-16-2012, 07:13 PM

Ok and using an ohm meter or a digital multimeter is there a way to check the switches to confirm that the switch is the problem. Any diagrams of the switch?
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tucsonjwt · 08-16-2012, 07:54 PM

If it is the switch you are checking, I just used a simple 12 volt continuity tester - one probe each in the two contacts which are in the connector at the end of the harness which connects to the motor. Operate switch - light goes on - switch works. BUT.....
In my case, when I moved the harness back into position and/or pushed the switch back into the door panel the little contacts inside the connector at the switch moved and the window worked intermittently. In other words, the connector which the switch plugs into was bad. So, jiggle that connector and you may get the windows to operate.

1981Stepside · 08-16-2012, 08:46 PM

tucsonjwt has a good point. I have also had a connector go south on me too. The wire detatched itself from the terminal connecting to the switch.

here's a diagram of the power window circuit:

http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/sm...?topic=20550.0

Jdlawrence1 · 08-16-2012, 10:40 PM

Ok so I have checked both switches with a simple test light. And it's putting power to the correct side of the switch. When the button is pushed up then the power goes to the top side of the switch and push down and power goes to the bottom side of the switch. So I guess that means the switches are ok? And it seems the wires are still in the terminals good. It is like there is no ground. Since my truck is a 80 I've noticed that there are 5 wires to the master switch and 3 to the passenger switch. What I've seen online is that in 81 or 82 they started putting 6 wires on the master switch. The extra wire was black so I wonder if there was an issue with the system I have and they added a ground at the switch. What do y'all think?
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1981Stepside · 08-16-2012, 11:04 PM

Only 5 wires to the master switch? If the ground isn't being delivered through the switch, then the motor itself should be grounded. As a test, run a wire from a good ground and attach it to the motor somewhere. Either the motor frame or mounting bolt. See if it works. If it does, your door isn't grounded to the rest of the cab. Ground the door (or motor) and it should solve your problem. If you've had the door off and painted or replaced the hinge recently, the paint will insulate the door from the cab.

Jdlawrence1 · 08-16-2012, 11:22 PM

The passenger window has never worked in the 2 or so years ive had the truck. And this door has been replaced before I got the truck. It's even a little newer door than the rest of the truck. Based on the style of motor in the door its at least a 82 or newer door. I will try grounding the motor tomorrow. And also could that be part of the issue that's it's a newer style motor than the system was designed for?
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1981Stepside · 08-17-2012, 12:45 AM

hmm. The newer style motor could create an issue depending on if they can operate through a casing ground. I've got 87 doors on my 81 and they have a dedicated ground connected to the master switch running to the pass. side so my ground circuit is different than yours. Try grounding the motor first and see what happens. A relay setup will work otherwise.

tucsonjwt · 08-17-2012, 07:29 AM

Checking the switch itself is not like checking the power at the other end of the switch harness at the motor. i suspect you have a fault in the switch connector, or possibly the harness to the motor/motors. You will need to pull off the door panel, reach in the bottom hole in the door, pull off the harness at the motor, then check the end of the harness where it goes into the motor. NOTE: make sure you observe the orientation of that harness connector - once it is off the motor you cannot see which way it connects to the motor inside the door - you just feel your way around in there, so make sure you know which way is up on that connector.

1981Stepside · 08-21-2012, 09:25 PM

any resolution on this?

Jdlawrence1 · 08-22-2012, 10:07 AM

Sorry I haven't gotten back with y'all. I had some health issues come up with my father so haven't had a chance to mess with it. I am trying to find the newer switches and harness ends thinking that might be the problem. But not sure. I also unble to find the correct 5 pin master switch. Only place that I've found them is through lmc trucks website. For 70 or more. So kind of not sure what direction to take.
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Jdlawrence1 · 03-18-2013, 01:08 PM

Sorry its been so long since ive messed with my old truck, but i finally figured out the issue. I found that the 2 different style of motors have different windings in them one has an up and down winding where the other just reverses polarity. So what i did was upgrade the driver side door to the newer style of motor and regulator and changed out the 5 pin master switch with a 6 pin master switch. Now both windows go up and down from the driver side without a problem. The only thing now is that i need to upgrade the passenger side switch and harness from the 3 pin to the 5 pin. But for now its getting better.

Thank you to everyone that has given me great advice and helped me to track down a solution on this problem.

08-15-2012, 10:24 PM	#1
Jdlawrence1 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Hereford, Tx Posts: 16	Please help with electric windows. Hey guys I need some help with my 1980 Chevy pickups electric windows. The driver window works great. However I wanted to roll down the passenger window. It has power at the switch and when you push the button up there is power to that side of the switch and vise versa when pushed down. The motor is good as I just replaced it. I ran a ground to the opposite side of the switch and the window worked. For example if I wanted the window to go up I could push the window button up and touch a ground to the down side of the switch and the window goes up. It does that for the switches on both sides. So I assume that means the switches are probably good. Please any advise as to what the problem is would be awesome. Posted via Mobile Device

08-15-2012, 10:34 PM	#2
1981Stepside Registered User Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Port Coquitlam, BC Posts: 202	Re: Please help with electric windows. Sounds like a bad drivers side switch. IIRC, the passenger side switch grounds through the main driver side. So the master switch is not providing ground to the passenger side function or to the passenger side switch. It still provides power to both as you are able to ground the switch directly and the window functions.

08-15-2012, 10:50 PM	#3
Jdlawrence1 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Hereford, Tx Posts: 16	Re: Please help with electric windows. Thank you 1981 stepside. Just to double check but I can do the same direct ground on the driver side switch and it will let the passenger window function. So with that said you still think its the switch? Posted via Mobile Device

08-15-2012, 11:38 PM	#4
BLE 'BURBAN In the Forgotten far North. Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 2,627	Re: Please help with electric windows. Also check the wiring inside the door jams. G.M. wiring is NOTORIOUS for breaking apart in these areas over time especially the drivers side. Just like bending a wire hanger back and forth continuosly causes it to break in two, so will over time,the wires in the door jams break apart from metal fatigue. __________________ 1987 R3500 CREW CAB DUALLY (BIG RED)Acquired 06/12/2015 1990 chevy suburban V2500 5.7L My cluster Mods-Nov 2007 overhead console Stereo install Round 2 Aug 2009 Heated/turn signal mirror upgrade

08-16-2012, 12:26 AM	#5
tucsonjwt Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,188	Re: Please help with electric windows. I have been around the power window rosie many times on my 83. My advice: stick a 12 volt tester in the end of the connector at the end of the cable to the motor, then operate the switch. If the tester lights up you have power to the motor. However, you can have intermittent power, which drives me crazy. In my experience, the connector at the switch is the culprit. The little contacts in the connectors get loose/worn out and don't make good contact. You can still get the short cable to the switch - post back if you want the info on this. Also, I got a bad Delco motor once (I would only buy Delco, since they are cheap if you use the online OEM websites to buy them.) The connector on the end of the Delco motor was loose and not making good contact. I found this out by jiggling the connector harness to the motor as I operated the switch. Still, I would stick with Delco on the motor, and the Delco catalog also has the short harness to the switch.

08-16-2012, 08:33 AM	#7
Jdlawrence1 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Hereford, Tx Posts: 16	Re: Please help with electric windows. Thanks to everyone who has given me advice on this issue. And 1981 stepside I have been doing it on the function switches. And it's using the right side of the dual switch on the driver door. So you say there is a master switch somewhere that could be the issue? Or is the switch on the driver door the master switch. And to the possible wire break in the door jamb how do you get to it without pulling a fender off? The black rubber boot is riveted on at the door. Posted via Mobile Device

08-16-2012, 09:04 AM	#8
1981Stepside Registered User Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Port Coquitlam, BC Posts: 202	Re: Please help with electric windows. I was refering to the dual switch on the driver door as the master switch. I believe that is causing your problem. As for the broken wire in the door, the easiest way is to get a multimeter with a continuity function ( http://www.ladyada.net/library/metertut/continuity.html ) disconnect the pigtail from the switch and attach one probe lead to the wire in question and attach the other probe lead somewhere on the same wire inside the cab after is passes through the door jamb

08-16-2012, 07:13 PM	#9
Jdlawrence1 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Hereford, Tx Posts: 16	Re: Please help with electric windows. Ok and using an ohm meter or a digital multimeter is there a way to check the switches to confirm that the switch is the problem. Any diagrams of the switch? Posted via Mobile Device

08-16-2012, 07:54 PM	#10
tucsonjwt Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,188	Re: Please help with electric windows. If it is the switch you are checking, I just used a simple 12 volt continuity tester - one probe each in the two contacts which are in the connector at the end of the harness which connects to the motor. Operate switch - light goes on - switch works. BUT..... In my case, when I moved the harness back into position and/or pushed the switch back into the door panel the little contacts inside the connector at the switch moved and the window worked intermittently. In other words, the connector which the switch plugs into was bad. So, jiggle that connector and you may get the windows to operate.

08-16-2012, 08:46 PM	#11
1981Stepside Registered User Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Port Coquitlam, BC Posts: 202	Re: Please help with electric windows. tucsonjwt has a good point. I have also had a connector go south on me too. The wire detatched itself from the terminal connecting to the switch. here's a diagram of the power window circuit: http://forum.73-87chevytrucks.com/sm...?topic=20550.0

08-16-2012, 10:40 PM	#12
Jdlawrence1 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Hereford, Tx Posts: 16	Re: Please help with electric windows. Ok so I have checked both switches with a simple test light. And it's putting power to the correct side of the switch. When the button is pushed up then the power goes to the top side of the switch and push down and power goes to the bottom side of the switch. So I guess that means the switches are ok? And it seems the wires are still in the terminals good. It is like there is no ground. Since my truck is a 80 I've noticed that there are 5 wires to the master switch and 3 to the passenger switch. What I've seen online is that in 81 or 82 they started putting 6 wires on the master switch. The extra wire was black so I wonder if there was an issue with the system I have and they added a ground at the switch. What do y'all think? Posted via Mobile Device

08-16-2012, 11:04 PM	#13
1981Stepside Registered User Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Port Coquitlam, BC Posts: 202	Re: Please help with electric windows. Only 5 wires to the master switch? If the ground isn't being delivered through the switch, then the motor itself should be grounded. As a test, run a wire from a good ground and attach it to the motor somewhere. Either the motor frame or mounting bolt. See if it works. If it does, your door isn't grounded to the rest of the cab. Ground the door (or motor) and it should solve your problem. If you've had the door off and painted or replaced the hinge recently, the paint will insulate the door from the cab.

08-16-2012, 11:22 PM	#14
Jdlawrence1 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Hereford, Tx Posts: 16	Re: Please help with electric windows. The passenger window has never worked in the 2 or so years ive had the truck. And this door has been replaced before I got the truck. It's even a little newer door than the rest of the truck. Based on the style of motor in the door its at least a 82 or newer door. I will try grounding the motor tomorrow. And also could that be part of the issue that's it's a newer style motor than the system was designed for? Posted via Mobile Device

08-17-2012, 12:45 AM	#15
1981Stepside Registered User Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Port Coquitlam, BC Posts: 202	Re: Please help with electric windows. hmm. The newer style motor could create an issue depending on if they can operate through a casing ground. I've got 87 doors on my 81 and they have a dedicated ground connected to the master switch running to the pass. side so my ground circuit is different than yours. Try grounding the motor first and see what happens. A relay setup will work otherwise.

08-17-2012, 07:29 AM	#16
tucsonjwt Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,188	Re: Please help with electric windows. Checking the switch itself is not like checking the power at the other end of the switch harness at the motor. i suspect you have a fault in the switch connector, or possibly the harness to the motor/motors. You will need to pull off the door panel, reach in the bottom hole in the door, pull off the harness at the motor, then check the end of the harness where it goes into the motor. NOTE: make sure you observe the orientation of that harness connector - once it is off the motor you cannot see which way it connects to the motor inside the door - you just feel your way around in there, so make sure you know which way is up on that connector.



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08-21-2012, 09:25 PM	#17
1981Stepside Registered User Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Port Coquitlam, BC Posts: 202	Re: Please help with electric windows. any resolution on this?

08-22-2012, 10:07 AM	#18
Jdlawrence1 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Hereford, Tx Posts: 16	Re: Please help with electric windows. Sorry I haven't gotten back with y'all. I had some health issues come up with my father so haven't had a chance to mess with it. I am trying to find the newer switches and harness ends thinking that might be the problem. But not sure. I also unble to find the correct 5 pin master switch. Only place that I've found them is through lmc trucks website. For 70 or more. So kind of not sure what direction to take. Posted via Mobile Device

03-18-2013, 01:08 PM	#19
Jdlawrence1 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Hereford, Tx Posts: 16	Re: Please help with electric windows. Sorry its been so long since ive messed with my old truck, but i finally figured out the issue. I found that the 2 different style of motors have different windings in them one has an up and down winding where the other just reverses polarity. So what i did was upgrade the driver side door to the newer style of motor and regulator and changed out the 5 pin master switch with a 6 pin master switch. Now both windows go up and down from the driver side without a problem. The only thing now is that i need to upgrade the passenger side switch and harness from the 3 pin to the 5 pin. But for now its getting better. Thank you to everyone that has given me great advice and helped me to track down a solution on this problem.

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