T5 help

[Emmets '63]

Just finished my T5 swap today and ran into a small problem. I wasn't sure which throwout bearing to use but decided to use the thowout bearing from the three speed that I took out; read that somewhere. Any way, I can't get the clutch to disengage (or engage) to get tranny into gear. It won't go into any gear and cuz reverse in non synchro it grinds if I try and put it into reverse. It looks like the clutch fork is moving as far back as it should so I think it's within adjustment . My question is what throwout bearings have you guys used in your T5 conversion? I'm dying to drive my truck again so any help is greatly appreciated!

[dantimdad]

I didn't do my t5 swap but it looks like whoever did, used the t5 throwout bearing.

Steven

[awbrown]

Are you sure the disc was facing in the correct direction?? Did you used after market bolts that sit to proud and are crashing the back side of the disc?... If all those things are correct then you dont have enough throw on the fork.. Maybe need a taller throw out bearing or more movement .. is it manual or hydraulic?? is the bellhousing open on the bottom??? if so you can watch and see if it is releasing all the way ... if one side gets clearance and the other side is grabbing the pressure plate then you know you have a problem...

[awbrown]

How much free play in the pedal?? with a new clutch you may need to remove the freeplay for a while til it seats in ..

[brokenspoke]

I used the pressure plate and throw out bering for the truck....clutch disk for the transmission, Astro Van disk

[Emmets '63]

@ awbrown: Double checked disc orientation at install and haven't used any aftermarket bolts. I do have the cover off and can see pretty much everything. The clutch is a manual and the linkage does have about 1/2" of adjustment in it. Maybe this is a problem but the clutch pedal doesn't have any free play, it starts engaging the clutch fork as soon as I depress the pedal (if I understand your question). I don't have anyone to depress the pedal while I watch from underneath so I'm gonna have to enlist some help tomorrow.
How do I remove free play, that's just adjustment in the linkage, right?
I still have the throw out bearing from the truck the T5 came out of but it seems even shorter than the original, idk
@ brokenspoke: Hmph? That's my exact set up! It's got to be an adjustment right? Or maybe I did put the disk in backwards Tomorrow will tell.

[padresag]

how did you do the swap with an adaptor or did you shorten the pilot shaft. if with the later did you shorten the trans frt brg retainer, where the t/o rides on. did you relieve the spline so that the clutch disc had more travel and didn't get stuck in the splines
the clutch adj is at the z/bar end of the rod from the t/o arm. there is a little wedge shape piece that also fits on the same rod that engages into the t/o arm. did you get that in properly?
ron

[Emmets '63]

@ padresag: I did the swap with an adapter from Vintage Metalworks (awesome to deal with btw!) The t/o arm has two places to put the wedge thingy, I put it in the notch thats closest to the clutch. Maybe move it out to the outside notch?

[awbrown]

closer to the bellhousing will give you more throw..so it is fine where it is .. During normal operation there should be enough free travel in the pedal so that the pilot bearing does not have any serious pressure on the fingers ,even better if it does not touch the fingers of the pressure plate.. ,make sure the pilot bearing is not proud and pushing on the input shaft ,and make sure the splines in the center of the disc clear the pilot bearing too...

[padresag]

Originally Posted by Emmets '63

@ padresag: I did the swap with an adapter from Vintage Metalworks (awesome to deal with btw!) The t/o arm has two places to put the wedge thingy, I put it in the notch thats closest to the clutch. Maybe move it out to the outside notch?

the adaptor can eliminate a lot of problems. try it on the outside one. adj the linkage so that there will be about 3/4" of free play at the top of the pedal. this means that your t/o will be clear of the pressure plate a bit
ron

[Emmets '63]

Ok, so I'm gonna get under there in the morning and check out everything you guys suggested. I'll also have someone there to work the pedal while I watch. It sounds like it's (hopefully) just a matter of adjustment. Thanks guys, will post on my progress in the morning.

[dantimdad]

I am at a loss on this one. Mine doesn't have an adapter plate and the shaft is stock length from the way it appears. Did someone just get lucky when they did mine? Cause it worked perfectly before I tore everything down.

Steven

[padresag]

Originally Posted by dantimdad

I am at a loss on this one. Mine doesn't have an adapter plate and the shaft is stock length from the way it appears. Did someone just get lucky when they did mine? Cause it worked perfectly before I tore everything down.

Steven

is yours a w/c t5? what is it out of a ?
ron

[dantimdad]

according to the number, it's out of an 86 IROC.

Steven

[brokenspoke]

Originally Posted by dantimdad

according to the number, it's out of an 86 IROC.

Steven

The Camero t-5 doesent need a adapter as the input shaft is the same as the orginal 3 speed

[dantimdad]

Thanks so much for clearing that up. I am sorry to hijack the thread.

Curiosity was killing me.

Steven

[Emmets '63]

OK, so here are my findings and to me they don't clear anything up. So while I'm under the truck a friend pushes and releases the clutch I can see the clutch disk moving away from the flywheel but am still unable to put it in any gear. Is this clutch disk hub interfering and the disk in reverse?

[padresag]

there is only one way of really finding out and I bet that you will never have to do it again.
that is to pull it out and check it. it is not really that big a job though, just a pita.
ron

[Emmets '63]

Originally Posted by padresag

there is only one way of really finding out and I bet that you will never have to do it again.
that is to pull it out and check it. it is not really that big a job though, just a pita.
ron

LOL!!! I know, I know! I just don't want that big tall ear on the bottom of the T5 digging into my chest again!

[jocko]

Emmet - the real quesiton is what clutch/pressure plate combo is in it? Whatever pressure plate was used, you have to use the corresponding throwout bearing for THAT pressure plate.

i.e. if you have, for instance, a T5 behing an old V8 and used an astro van clutch/pressure plate combo to mate them up, you have to use the throwout bearing for the Astro Van T5. There is a difference - the Astro pressure plate is much thicker than a stock 3-speed (or 4-speed) pressure plate, but since the inside of the bell housing is the same - it uses a correspondingly shorter release bearing. I believe that is your issue.

[jocko]

here are some notes from my swap emmet. some tech details regarding spacers and what not since those are mentioned above as well. I used the release bearing in the astro van 11" clutch kit - part number is in the thread (from oreily) - but I'm sure you can buy a release bearing separately. But first confirm what type of pressure plate you have - and match the pressure plate. http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=482069

EDIT: take note of brokenspoke's post above - he used the pressure plate and release brg for his truck - and that is what matters - i.e. those two have to be a match (so use either the pressure plate and release from the C10 - OR - use the pressure plate and release brg from the astro van. I just bought the astro van 11" kit as mentioned above because I needed a new clutch disk and pp anyway - but either approach will work.) The key is appropriate (matched) stack height of the pressure plate and release bearing. Thicker pressure plate goes with a thinner release bearing and vice versa.

[jocko]

One more NOTE!! What Ron mentions above is very important, once you are sure you have all the right parts in, the goal of your linkage adjustment is to have the release bearing NOT in touch with the pressure plate diaphragm fingers when the pedal is released. But you only want it just a little bit off those fingers - 1/8" is sufficient. This will ensure it won't spin continuously because the forward surface is partially engaged with the pressure plate.

[Emmets '63]

Originally Posted by jocko

Emmet - the real quesiton is what clutch/pressure plate combo is in it? Whatever pressure plate was used, you have to use the corresponding throwout bearing for THAT pressure plate.

i.e. if you have, for instance, a T5 behing an old V8 and used an astro van clutch/pressure plate combo to mate them up, you have to use the throwout bearing for the Astro Van T5. There is a difference - the Astro pressure plate is much thicker than a stock 3-speed (or 4-speed) pressure plate, but since the inside of the bell housing is the same - it uses a correspondingly shorter release bearing. I believe that is your issue.

Ok, so the T5 is from an '89 S10, the hub for the clutch disk is from the S10 but I had a local drivetrain shop make the disk larger to match the original pressure plate and flywheel (11" or 10.5" I think). Throwout bearing is matched to the pressure plate & flywheel; btw my truck has a 292.
Does that sound correct?
Again, if I can see the flywheel and pressure plate spreading and seeing gap on both sides of the clutch disk, what the hay is preventing it from disengaging, has to be the disk hub right?
I must say I appreciate all the input guys, please don't give up on me!

[Emmets '63]

heres a couple pictures, one clutch engaged and the other not.

[jocko]

ok, thanks emmet - I understand what you had done to the clutch disk itself.
But, for the rest - are you saying you are using your original pressure plate and a matched release bearing - i.e. all you changed was to have an old s10 clutch disk hub rebuilt to fit within your current pressure plate?

Is the release bearing new? If so, it should be the exact same thickness overall as the one you replaced (as long as the pressure plate is original). in other words, described matched - or perhaps confirm what the mechanic thought was matched.

You mentioned it grinds when you try to put it in reverse - I have a dumb quesiton - but I'm assuming the engine is running, yes? What concerns me more is you also said you can't put it in any fwd gears? Can you describe what happens when you try? That sounds like a bit of a different issue than the clutch being engaged or not. What happens when you shift the stick around with the truck not running? On the T5, should be able to row in and out of all 5+R with it not running at a minimum.

If you cannot get it into gear with the truck off, hmmm...
If you can get it into gear with the truck off - what happens when you try to start it?
With the clutch pedal depressed?
With it not depressed?
(btw, be careful, don't accidentally drive through your garage wall doing these tests... might want to consider jacking up the rear axle if you haven't already).

One more thing to consider - not sure anyone mentioned above - do you recall confirming that you put the clutch disk in facing the correct way? There is a difference, and they are usually (supposed to be labeled) so that they can be installed correctly - i.e. flywheel side/pressure plate side, etc.

When I look at the pics - it's kinda hard to tell, but it does appear that the friction surface is clearly engaged in contact with the flywheel in one pic and not in contact in the other....