454 rebuild

[79 blue monster]

wondering if anybody ever used a redline rebuild kit off ebay? to me it looks like good name brand parts in the kit. i heard that their really good kits but just wanted to know what you guys think.

[KQQL IT]

Use somebody local. Face to face issues are handled right.
Posted via Mobile Device

[74 stepside]

I like to use Summit Racing myself. They stand behind what they sell and theres never a problem returning anything. I dont deal with Ebay much to answer your question.

[BigBlocksRule]

Give you engine builder a chance to make a couple of bucks off of parts. You'll get better and faster service than if you show up with parts and all you need is machine work.
They don't make much off of either parts OR machine work, give the guy a chance to stay in business.

[wyattglock]

Originally Posted by BigBlocksRule

Give you engine builder a chance to make a couple of bucks off of parts. You'll get better and faster service than if you show up with parts and all you need is machine work.
They don't make much off of either parts OR machine work, give the guy a chance to stay in business.

I second that motion!! I had a local machinist rework my heads on my 454 for me, cost me $319 out the door. Try and find a good set of big block heads for the same cost, good luck! Since I just wanted a reliable daily driver, that fit the budget the best.

[Firebirdjones]

Not to mention, alot of machine shops prefer to use certain parts and certain suppliers for their engine builds. If they've been in the business long enough with a good reputation,,,they know what works and what doesn't, and you get a better quality finished product out the door, usually that is backed up by the shop if something goes wrong. Can't say the same though if you show up with Ebay parts, they might not even want to touch it.

What I've found is that even name brand rotating assemblies like Scat and Eagle I've used, both had to be balanced anyway, even though they are complete and supposed to be balanced and ready to go. Not really the case. Everyone I've had the machine shop went back through it and balanced everything and found them to be out more than they prefer.

So there is going to be the added cost of a rebalance job with most of your roatating assemblies out there unless you step up and spend good money for Lunati or the like.

Personally I'd price around different machine shops and see what they have to offer, quality, expertise, etc.. I've been machine shop shopping for about 2 years now for something in particular and I still haven't found something I'm happy with around here, and I may go back to Bischoff in Indiana, at this points that's all I trust for this build.

[Hoods69BadBowTie]

Originally Posted by KQQL IT

Use somebody local. Face to face issues are handled right.
Posted via Mobile Device

Yea I was thinking along the same things. I like using amazon and ebay to buy stuff of off and save some money. But if it was me buying parts for a motor rebuild I would want them closer or at least from a site with better reputation if that makes sense. So they will stand behind stuff better.

[79 blue monster]

i plan on rebuilding it myself. not the first one i've done. My dad and i rebuilt his 455 in his trans am and we used all the same name brand parts as in the kit off ebay. thats why i would like to just buy a kit. I too dont like buying cheep kits for a motor, but i've never heard anything bad about these kits so thats why i was wondering

[Ol69C10]

Anyone rebuild a 454 at 454ci w/ comp at about 11? I'm looking to rebuild a block I got sittin but am tryin to do it as cheap as possible. So i want higher compression but retain stock crank, new rods, pistons, stock heads (781's), and the bores are good.

I'm havin a hard time finding a piston/rod combo that will get comp over 10. Any Ideas? should i machine the block to a lower deck height (9.8 right now), mill some CC's outta the heads?

[BigBlocksRule]

You aren't going to get much compression bump from either milling the deck or the heads.
Why are you shooting for 11:1? It'll run E-85 fine but with iron heads, it's gonna be a bear to feed, it'll detonate itself to death without very good gas and perfect timing.

[Firebirdjones]

I run right at 11:1 with one of mine using an aftermarket aluminum head and a slight dome aftermarket piston. Runs pump gas fine, but it has a custom roller cam, and the aluminum heads help.

Going to be hard pressed to do it with stock 781 open chamber heads.

I always zero deck every block I build so that's a given for me. At a minimum I give a used set of heads and clean up mill pass.

You may end up milling quite a bit, and running a radical dome piston. Seems like alot of trouble to use a stock head. There are some affordable aftermarket heads that will trump the 781 in power potential, and have tighter (more modern style) combustion chambers that make it easy to build compression. I personally would rather build compression with the cylinder head and keep the piston as flat as possible for better quench area and flame travel to create a better combustion process (hence build power) with a more efficient engine.

[Ol69C10]

BigBlock: Yeah I figured i might have problems so I was looking at the longer 6.385 rods in hopes it might help keep the piston at tdc a little longer. However, i couldnt find a piston witht he right comp height to make atleast 10.5 or higher.


Firebird: I'm on a very limited budget and have been keepin an eye on RacingJunk for a set a heads. I'd really like to try an stay with the stockies to save money on that end since I'm trying to get some machine work done. Another issue is trying to set the heads up for a good lower lift (.525) cam that will work well with the higher compression.

Comments? Bounce some ideas back please.

-Ol'69

Note: I'm also looking to run a tunnel ram with some 600's on it. Love the look. My op range is lookin at 3-6500. Ill stall it at 3-3200, not worried about low end tq, I got a th350 and 4.11's for this weekend rat.

[BigBlocksRule]

Again, why are you shooting for such high compression?
If it's a race deal, then go for about 13.5:1. As long as you have to buy race gas, might as well go all the way.
Street use, 11:1 with iron heads ain't gonna work with a monster cam and then it's not going to be any fun. As long as you're not towing, 9.5 is good to shoot for with iron heads. And the long rod dwell time at TDC isn't going to buy you anything, the difference is so miniscule that you'll never know it - neither will the engine.

[Firebirdjones]

The longer TDC dwell time with a long rod needs a good cylinder head to take any advantage of that.

You can run as much as 10-11:1 with a cast iron head on pump gas and get away with it (I've done it and currently doing it) But it takes a camshaft with alot of overlap to bleed off low speed cylinder pressure, a very sharp tune, engine has to stay cool, tight quench area (more the better) and a modern style combustion chamber will help, etc. etc...

It's not something I would recommend to the average street car though and it can be very finicky with really high ambient temps (100+ around here). I sometimes run them slightly on the richer side of things to compensate.

My 69 Z is 11:1 factory, and the original cam has enough overlap, that it actually runs pretty good on pump gas even with a 36 degree total ignition lead.
My 70 400 formula was rebuilt and blueprinted to run pure stock, I stuck with 10.2:1 compression (cast iron heads) even though I was allowed as much as 11.5 per rules because it's a street car for us too. It runs fine on pump gas if I keep timing at 34 degrees, but when racing I prefer a 50/50 mix of race gas to be safe.
I also built my ventura with a little 406 and 10.5:1 compression and cast iron head, and run a mutha thumper cam, 36 degrees of total timing, and it's a bit finicky on pump gas on very hot days, but works fine otherwise.

I get away with it on these cars because they are relatively light, have enough rear gear to get moving easily, 2 of them are 4 speeds so that helps as well (I can pick the gear and choose the load) plus gear spacing is closer together so you really never lug the engine when upshifting. But I will say they are what is considered "on the edge".

However, you put a combo like this together in a very heavy vehicle, no rear gear, an automatic trans, so you are constantly lugging this engine around to move the vehicle, coupled with alot of compression on pump gas, and it will give you fits and eventually take itself apart.

An aluminum head is your friend in this instance. I run 11:1 in my 454 chevelle with aluminum heads, dyno'd at 640 hp on 93 octane, and will run just fine on 87 or 89 if I choose. It's really the way to go. The only reason I run cast iron heads on 2 of those examples above is due to either class rules, and keeping originality/value takes priority.

I'd personally keep the compression on the tame side for a heavy truck, 9.5 tops as suggested for pump gas is a good target. Will suffer a bit in responsivness but will be much happier on pump.
The other issue we are all fighting is that pump gas quality is getting worse every year. The 10% ethanol they are using unfortunately isn't consistent from station to station. I've tested as much as 17% where they advertise a 10% limit. I'm also told (I've never tested it personally) that E85 also isn't very consistent and can be as low as 70%.

I mention this because what this does is change the fuel requirements. Not a big deal on a flex fuel car because the computer can sense the amount of ethanol and change the tune accordingly.
However on our classic vehicles it's much more involved. Unless you are under the hood constantly changing air bleeds and jets, the AFR will fluctuate from one tank to the next. The more ethanol present in the gas, leans the fuel mixture if the tune isn't changed, can be very dangerous if running compression on the edge. More ethanol requires a richer AFR to keep the engine happy and making maximum power/efficiency. Just something to keep in mind.

[Firebirdjones]

Ol69, I do like the idea of a tunnel ram. Been years for me but love the look, and when tuned they produce great power and good midrange torque.

To give you an idea on the gas I mentioned, straight gas has a stoich of 14.7, that's where it makes the most power with least emissions. Straight Ethanol is about 9:1 stoich (alot richer for same result) because it has less energy. The E85 has a stoich of 9.8:1 so you can see how much richer it has to be, and why gas mileage plumits.

When you mix in 10% ethanol and do the math, that's roughly a 14:1 AFR so you can see it needs to be richer by .7 vs straight gas, this will play games with the tune up, although not noticable to most people. Without changing the tune you actually wind up with a lean AFR, then throw in the inconsistency of the ethanol mix and you can see why I pull my hair out (what little hair I have )

Then if you really want to throw more in the mix, changing elevations where you drive will play games. It will richen at higher elevations and go leaner at lower elevations. I see a swing of about .4-.5 AFR going from 5,000 ft to about 1,000 ft where I live. Any direction I go can change from 8,000 feet to below 1,000 within 20-30 miles so you can see what I mean.

Not sure if you live in that type of terrain but just another variable to consider. That's why I find it important to build an engine friendly on pump gas, even with a little cusion or wiggle room if you will so you can fudge past some of these variables.

Also doesn't help that all we have out West here is crappy 91 octane, which caused me to change the tuneups in most cars I have when I moved here. Back East we had 94 octane and these cars I built on the edge were much happier back there.

[Ol69C10]

First, I apologize to 79 Blue for piggy backin off his original post.

Firbird: Thanks for all your input, that's alot of info and its helping. I want my engine on the edge. Truly.

For a cam i was lookin at around 108LSA. and about 242-250* @ .050. It sounds like runnin a little less comp would be beneficial for my stocky heads. I knew a little about stoich but didn't know Ethanol had that much of an effect. My truck is weighin in at around 3600lbs

Bottom line, right now I just need to stick to a budget so i'm lookin at minimal head/block work.

Thanks for your help, I'll have to start a thread.

[bk2life]

Originally Posted by Ol69C10

Anyone rebuild a 454 at 454ci w/ comp at about 11? I'm looking to rebuild a block I got sittin but am tryin to do it as cheap as possible. So i want higher compression but retain stock crank, new rods, pistons, stock heads (781's)

If you have made a new thread for this, post it so we can go there instead of commenting on the OP's thread.
First off you seem to have no plan…what is your end result?
Anyone that has been around BBCs for any length of time know 049/781s will make very reliable 500+hp on 9:1 with very minor port/blend work. Are you looking for more HP?
Do you have an automatic trans? How big is your stall? Rear gears?
And your cam choice is really small.
What is your budget? You should be planning at least 2500 dollars as a bare minimum.
Post your build thread link and we can comment there, and give you plenty of ideas.

[jjzepplin]

Originally Posted by wyattglock

I second that motion!! I had a local machinist rework my heads on my 454 for me, cost me $319 out the door. Try and find a good set of big block heads for the same cost, good luck! Since I just wanted a reliable daily driver, that fit the budget the best.

I found a guy that rebuilt my 400sbc heads with new 2.02's all stainless and opened up the chambers for them and installed my studs and plates for $350... Also had him install my pistons on the rods and resize them with ARP bolts for cheap too.

[Ol69C10]

Originally Posted by bk2life

If you have made a new thread for this, post it so we can go there instead of commenting on the OP's thread.
First off you seem to have no plan…what is your end result?
Anyone that has been around BBCs for any length of time know 049/781s will make very reliable 500+hp on 9:1 with very minor port/blend work. Are you looking for more HP?
Do you have an automatic trans? How big is your stall? Rear gears?
And your cam choice is really small.
What is your budget? You should be planning at least 2500 dollars as a bare minimum.
Post your build thread link and we can comment there, and give you plenty of ideas.

I've started a tread for my engine. Please post your input:

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...33#post5658333