Bearings, King Pins, and Master Cylinders Oh My.....

[Gator Alum]

Long story short... it seems as though overnight my truck developed this TERRIBLE wobble where the steering wheel shakes back and forth. Yes I need new tires, but after further inspection my front wheels rock back and forth, top to bottom... So... I need to replace/shim some king pins... I need to read up on this process.

Second, my master cylinder blew out, no brakes whatsoever... Man what a long day... All just to get the truck up and running for the nice weather.

So that brings me to my dilemma... I would like to have some dual reservoir master cylinder for some safety. I also figured I might as well upgrade to tapered roller bearings while I'm fixing the king pin issue. Does anyone make a bracket to add a simple dual reservoir master cylinder in the stock frame mount location? In the future, I'd like to move towards disc brakes in the front. I've considered biting the bullet and going with this kit from CPP. New bearings, discs, brackets and master cylinder with booster. I don't necessarily need/want the booster though. It also says it may interfere with transmission cross member. Does anyone have insight to that?

As always, you all have an immense amount of knowledge and any help is appreciated.

[Wrenchbender Ret]

If you go to disc brakes you need the booster also. Disc brakes take more pedal pressure then drums. Ive never used any of the conversion kits but I plan to put power brakes with a dual M.C. & use the original drum brakes on my 56 in the future.

[Russell Ashley]

Gator, You don't have to worry about the crossmember clearance if you are keeping the original tranny. These trucks didn't originally have a crossmember back there where the brake m/c mounts. If you are definitely going to keep the straight axle you might as well go ahead and do the power disk brake upgrade while you have it apart to do the king pins. I used CPP kits and love the way my trucks stops. To me the worst part of the brake upgrade was replacing the brake lines but you probably should do that also. One thing leads to another when you start upgrading, LOL. I recommend against using the CPP power steering kit that uses a Chevy box though. I have it on my truck but now wish I'd gone in a different direction.
I don't mean to try to change your mind about what you want to do with your truck, but when I add the cost of the spring bushings and shackles, the king pin set , the disk brake upgrade, and the p/s upgrade, It would have gone a long way toward a Scott's or other MII front end. Just food for thought.

[Gator Alum]

Russell - thanks so much for your input. I'll snap a picture later tonight or tomorrow and post it up. I agree with the whole 'one thing leads to another' soon enough the 'while I'm there' philosophy starts adding up to big $$. I was looking at 6 lug brake kits already. The whole kitten caboodle will run around $750 + an immense amount for shipping probably. There are just a ton of brake kit options available and it is a little overwhelming at times. I can't say I want to go with P/S quite yet. I am still enjoying the challenge of the manual steering. After brakes, king pins, and tires, I am probably looking around the $1k-$1200 range. Scott's clip was like $4k (a bit out of my price range).

[_Ogre]

king pins:
easiest way to re-king pin an axle is to remove it and take it to a machine shop
king pins need to be re-bushed and reamed to be installed right
unless you have the right tools it can be a bear
i was a fleet mechanic for a school bus yard, we had the tools and reamer to do our own
but when it came time to do my truck i pulled the axle and took it a shop
you might as well look at replacing tie rod ends and the drag link too

brakes:
once you start it will snow ball, unless your lines are in good shape you will probably end up replacing them all
cutting and flaring rusty brake lines doesn't woork too well
i fabbed my own under floor system using a hydroboost from an 03 mustang
if your a decent fabricator there are a lot of cheap options

fatman fab sells a hub to hub mustII kit for $1900 that i have under my truk
but then you end up replacing the column and have 5 lug wheels on front
that's not a problem if you plan on putting highway gears in it by swapping rearends

it all depends on how far you want to go with your truck
keeping it stock is probably the cheapest option

[Gator Alum]

Ogre- as always, you're advice is invaluable. I guess I do not understand the entire king pin concept yet. I figured the bushings were worn out, not necessarily the axle they are mounted in. Meaning, new bushings and pins would have it all covered. I think the MustangII kit is a little more than I really want to get into right now. There are probably a fair amount of ancillary items to the kit than I imagine right now. Entire 6 lug powered brake kit (discs in front with new hubs) is $750 with new tapered bearings. Add some king pins in there and I'm about $850. Either way I need new tires so that expense is incurred regardless of what path I take.

[Russell Ashley]

You don't need to remove the axle as there is no bushing in it and there is nothing to be done to it. These trucks have what is known as a Reverse Elliot style axle. The bushings are in the spindles and the king pin does not rotate in the axle. There is a locking pin in the axle that secures the king pin from moving at all so the axle doesn't wear. You take the spindles, kingpins, and bushings to the machine shop and they put the bushings into the spindles and align bore them to fit the kingpins.

If you are not adding power steering and your drag link and tie rod ends are tight you probably don't need to change those now. With the truck sitting on the ground, have someone sit in the truck and turn the steering wheel back and forth just enought to turn the wheels slightly while you observe the drag link and tierod ends. If you see any slop, that part needs to be replaced. The drag link is not repairable but you can get a kit to rebuild the original style tierod ends. CPP advises that you do change your tierod and ends when you install one of their p/s kits.

Your $850 estimat is is very close to 50% of that Fat Man Fab MII that Ogre mentioned. You can retain your column and shifter when you upgrade. Not trying to talk you into anything, just saying what I wish I had done.

[_Ogre]

Brain fart. Ra is correct on the bushing location
Mine were siezed and impossible to get out
Thus I removed the axle
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[Gator Alum]

Thanks Ogre for the correction. I know you these trucks petty well.
Russell-thanks for all the info! Makes me feel a lot better and thanks for the input on the IFS. My 850 quote is primarily brakes. The musII doesn't include brakes at all.

Does anyone know what components the CPP kit uses? Are the 6 lug rotor parts and caliper parts readily available at the local auto parts stores?
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[Gator Alum]

Update:
Got the king pins out, man those welch plugs were a little bit of a bare to get out. The king pin on the passenger side has a nice snug fit in the axle. The issue is the driver's side. When I slide either pin into the axle, it can wobble back and forth. It isn't much at all... but definitely noticeable. Am I going to have to ream out the axle now and get oversized king pins?

[Divine 59]

Gator Alum.... Nice to see someone taking a similar path as I did. I kept my kingpins, installed new busings/shims myself in an afternoon. I guess I was lucky, because mine weren't really worn out. I have been diligent about keeping the front end well greased. My opinion this will help the longevity of the king pins.

I too had a loose feel to my steering for a while. I replaced my ball bearings with tapered bearings. I could not believe the improvement. I went from a vague high effort steering to being able to turn the wheel with one finger. Upon tear down I found the races where badly worn on my old b.bearings. I did not want to go the new front clip route.

Good Luck. I appreciate my truck the way it was originally built. Heck its a truck! I also am impressed by others that do the front end swap too.

[Gator Alum]

Axle bores are a little pitted. Also, driver's side is slightly out of round. The ID is measuring .872-.874. Passenger side is nice and tight when you remove spindle and place king pin in axle only (measures .870). Weird thing is that replacement king pins are .875. Everyone keeps saying I don't need to touch the axle. How does .875 fit in .870??? Also, how do I address the slight wobble back and forth of the kingpin in the axle bore of the driver's side?

[Russell Ashley]

Interesting. From the service manual: "Check kingpin holes in the axle "I" beam using a new kingpin. If the kingpin is found to be loose in the "I" beam the axle end should be reamed for an oversize kingpin". No measurement is given for what makes it loose enough to need reaming. It says the diameter of the kingpin should be .866 inches and are available in .010 oversize. Do you have the new kingpins already? Did you mike them to get that .875 measurement or was that specified somewhere? That's .009 over what the service manual specifies for a stock pin.
The pins are not a press fit in the axle and should slide in and out fairly easily. I would guess that a slight amount of looseness in the pin and axle would be ok as the locking pin wedges against it and keeps it tight in the axle.

[Gator Alum]

RA: I read that from the service manual too. It is a little vague on if the locking pin should be installed and then check for looseness. I haven't received the kingpins from Speedway yet, but they said they are .875. CPP called back today and theirs are .865. I will mic the new ones when they arrive.
I was thinking the same thing regarding the locking pin... I should get a feeler gauge to measure how much 'slop' there truly is in the thing. I talked with a reputable machine shop in the area and they are very familiar with king pins. I think I'm just going to bore out the axles to clean up the surfaces. As of right now, they are pitted and have seen better days. Normal greasing will be a must.
It might be a little overkill, but while it's apart and the spindles need to go to the machine shop... well what the heck...

[Russell Ashley]

There definitely shouldn't be any movement when the locking pin is in place. It's a wedge and tightens very firmly against the pin. It never hurts to be on the safe side so if you have a shop that can bore the axle and fit the pins that would be a good thing. That's probably not going to be a cheap operation so add that cost to what the rest of the frontend rebuild/upgrade is costing. It might make the upgrade to a better suspension more attractive, especially since you are gong to want power steering later, and that is another big expense.

[Gator Alum]

RA- I never actually checked it with the locking pin in (without the spindle) because the locking pin threads ended up rather bent. My guess is that it would have been perfectly fine with the locking pin in there, but like I said, what the heck. I am hoping the machine shop bill isn't too crazy expensive. We'll see...

[1project2many]

No "wobble" allowed in king pin without lock bolt installed. Axle bore must be snug enough to support all force applied to spindle. Installing lock pin may tighten kingpin so it won't wobble but this concentrates force on kingpin / lock bolt interface since "loose" part of axle won't be touching kingpin.

Machine shop line bore spindles? Shouldn't be necessary on this style axle unless there's a problem with the spindles or bushings aren't sized to pin. Be careful not to bugger bushings during install. If pin slides through one new bushing and into the next with minimal effort after they're installed then no line bore needed.

What brand / part no is the kingpin kit?

[Gator Alum]

I got the kingpin kit from Speedway. Speedway Kingpin Set

[Gator Alum]

So speedway's site has incorrect information. The pins are really .866, NOT .875... Should be interesting to see how the machine shop is going to handle this one...

I just had the axle sandblasted and I sprayed it Rustoleum Black. Waiting for it to dry and then off to machining. It's the most humid, cloudy day in Florida so it's taking a while to dry. It's usually so blazing hot it takes 5 min.

[1project2many]

The machine shop might end up locating oversize pins. They could make a bushing and install it in the axle or weld and rebore but that's usually more work than it's worth.

[Gator Alum]

Machine shop said the oversized pins were the most economical way to go. Of course, the pins are now twice the price (from everything I can see online) and I cannot find them ANYWHERE in stock. I have found Rare Parts to be a manufacturer and they don't have them in stock for the next 30 days. FML.

Does anyone out there know where I could find oversized pins for my 59 apache???

[Divine 59]

This place lists a .010" oversize. Will this help?
http://www.classicparts.com/prodinfo.asp?number=74-103B

[Gator Alum]

Thanks Divine... anyone know if the 41-54 is the same as the 59?

[Divine 59]

Here is another link for some ebay listings. The some sellers claim their parts fit 47-59. But I can't verify....
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=king+pin+kits+chevy

[Divine 59]

Rock Auto lists a king pin set, but it does not say it is oversize. Raybestos #5301065 for $45.79 I would guess it is "standard".