Clutch pedal return - slow - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

sstone69 · 10-19-2012, 03:18 AM

About two weeks ago, I was driving my 1969 - 396 3OT and heard and felt what I thought was a spring popping noise on the clutch. Continued to drive and have been driving it without a shifting problem except the clutch pedal is slow to return.
I know this maybe hard to diagnosis, but I am kind of lost here. I installed a clutch pedal return spring, it appears there never was one there of if there was I can't find any remains, not sure how that was possible.
When I release the pedal it looks and feels like it is binding in the pedal mechanism. If I disconnect the rod that goes from the pedal through the firewall and press the pedal, it stays down.
Should the pedal return back up without that rod connected?

Also, watching the z-bar movement, it looks like the connection to the engine block is kinda sloppy. This may not be related, but I thought I would mention it.

I can provide pictures if needed. Not sure what picture to post.

jjzepplin · 10-19-2012, 07:05 AM

The pedal should return rather rapidly. This could be many things. I would start by lubricating all the pivot points. It also could be the throwout bearing not moving on the trans shaft. Lubricating this may help but be careful to not get any lube on your disc or flywheel. If you have a closed style bell-housing this will complicate things further. I suppose you could access through the fork hole. Your clutch return spring should be fairly healthy. Not like a carb return spring. Don't give up we will help you!

PanelDeland · 10-19-2012, 08:29 AM

From your diagnosis,the first thing I would look at is the pivot on the motor.It's kind of hard to get the Z bar out but it sounds like your pivot may have broken off and there is usually enough sticking out for it to still work though really sloppily(is that a word,did I spell it right?).You should not get much movement out of that "joint".Only a smooth swivel.
Do it soon.I had one break and the Z bar shifted,putting a cotter pin thru the body of the oil filter.This happened on a truck I had just bought,the gages didn't work and it did it as I shifted into third getting on the hiway.Toasted engine,I'm older now and hopefully smarter.

Wrenchbender Ret · 10-19-2012, 08:31 AM

That model probably came with a heavy duty clutch. They had a strong overcenter spring under the dash that helped push in on the clutch & served as a return spring also. If a replacement clutch is too light the spring will have a tendency to hold the pedal down. If the clutch needs adjusting it will also effect it.
If the linkage is too sloppy, fix it & adjust theb link to have a small amount of freeplay. If you cant fix it like that take the overcenter spring off. I have also heated them to relieve some of the tention.

sstone69 · 10-19-2012, 09:36 AM

Thanks for the responses, I too think it may have something to do with that Z-bar connection to the engine. The bolt that is attached to the frame was loose also.
Does the torque from the engine affect this in any way?

So, it sounds like I don't need that return spring on the pedal under the dash, correct?

PanelDeland · 10-19-2012, 09:28 PM

The torque will twist the engine in it's mounts.If the mounts are old and deteriorated they may be bad allowing the engine to torque over more and this could cause the Z-bar pivot to break,but they usually just break after tons of pressure cycles.I don't know about the spring.

sstone69 · 10-20-2012, 04:21 PM

Well I went out today to shoot a video of the Z-bar and how it was cantilevering on the engine stud.
Shifted it once and this happened. Talk about metal fatigue.
I see LMC sells the whole linkage kit, has anyone replaced theirs with this kit?

sstone69 · 10-26-2012, 05:59 PM

Update on the z-bar and the clutch pedal slowness. Finally pulled the Z-bar out and found that the engine block stud that the Z-bar connects to is broken. It is sheared off right at the engine block. Is there any way to get the remaining part of the stud out?
It looks like it is almost impossible to get access to it without pulling the engine.
Any thoughts or anyone do this without pulling the engine?

mgkgmc · 10-26-2012, 06:19 PM

Try cutting a notch in the bolt with a dremel if you can and get it off with a flat head screw driver or get a bolt extractor.

sstone69 · 10-26-2012, 06:47 PM

Good idea , except it broke off into the engine block. I think if I try to use a dremel tool it will mess up the threads on the engine block.

I may try to get a dremel down in there with a drill bit I don't think there is enough room though.

10-19-2012, 03:18 AM	#1
sstone69 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Tucker, GA Posts: 128	Clutch pedal return - slow About two weeks ago, I was driving my 1969 - 396 3OT and heard and felt what I thought was a spring popping noise on the clutch. Continued to drive and have been driving it without a shifting problem except the clutch pedal is slow to return. I know this maybe hard to diagnosis, but I am kind of lost here. I installed a clutch pedal return spring, it appears there never was one there of if there was I can't find any remains, not sure how that was possible. When I release the pedal it looks and feels like it is binding in the pedal mechanism. If I disconnect the rod that goes from the pedal through the firewall and press the pedal, it stays down. Should the pedal return back up without that rod connected? Also, watching the z-bar movement, it looks like the connection to the engine block is kinda sloppy. This may not be related, but I thought I would mention it. I can provide pictures if needed. Not sure what picture to post. __________________ "You gonna pull them pistols or whistle dixie ?"

10-19-2012, 07:05 AM	#2
jjzepplin Registered User Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Ruskin Florida Posts: 4,559	Re: Clutch pedal return - slow The pedal should return rather rapidly. This could be many things. I would start by lubricating all the pivot points. It also could be the throwout bearing not moving on the trans shaft. Lubricating this may help but be careful to not get any lube on your disc or flywheel. If you have a closed style bell-housing this will complicate things further. I suppose you could access through the fork hole. Your clutch return spring should be fairly healthy. Not like a carb return spring. Don't give up we will help you! __________________ 70 swb 4x4 406sbc 700r4 203/205 d60/14blt locker yadda yadda http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...88#post6935688 Yeller 72 Blazer 2wd conversion project "No Daggum Money" http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=550804 LS1-T56 3.73 LSD super budget build Blanco-2014 Sierra SWB https://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/...d.php?t=810350

10-19-2012, 08:29 AM	#3
PanelDeland I am a Referee of life. Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Greensboro N.C. Posts: 13,993	Re: Clutch pedal return - slow From your diagnosis,the first thing I would look at is the pivot on the motor.It's kind of hard to get the Z bar out but it sounds like your pivot may have broken off and there is usually enough sticking out for it to still work though really sloppily(is that a word,did I spell it right?).You should not get much movement out of that "joint".Only a smooth swivel. Do it soon.I had one break and the Z bar shifted,putting a cotter pin thru the body of the oil filter.This happened on a truck I had just bought,the gages didn't work and it did it as I shifted into third getting on the hiway.Toasted engine,I'm older now and hopefully smarter. __________________ The 47-present Chevrolet and GMC Truck Message Board Network,it's owners,moderators,members,and associates of any type should not be held responsible for my opinion. You can't fix stupid,not even with duct tape. "My appearance is due to the fact that "GOD" does punish you for having too much fun!" Barrett-Jackson has perfected alchemy,they make rust into gold! "You can lead a horse to water but you can't saddle a duck" "Cleverly disguised as a 'Responsible Adult' "Sometimes your Knight in shining armor is just a retard in tinfoil"

10-19-2012, 08:31 AM	#4
Wrenchbender Ret Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Overland Park, Ks. Posts: 5,208	Re: Clutch pedal return - slow That model probably came with a heavy duty clutch. They had a strong overcenter spring under the dash that helped push in on the clutch & served as a return spring also. If a replacement clutch is too light the spring will have a tendency to hold the pedal down. If the clutch needs adjusting it will also effect it. If the linkage is too sloppy, fix it & adjust theb link to have a small amount of freeplay. If you cant fix it like that take the overcenter spring off. I have also heated them to relieve some of the tention.

10-19-2012, 09:36 AM	#5
sstone69 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Tucker, GA Posts: 128	Re: Clutch pedal return - slow Thanks for the responses, I too think it may have something to do with that Z-bar connection to the engine. The bolt that is attached to the frame was loose also. Does the torque from the engine affect this in any way? So, it sounds like I don't need that return spring on the pedal under the dash, correct? __________________ "You gonna pull them pistols or whistle dixie ?"

10-19-2012, 09:28 PM	#6
PanelDeland I am a Referee of life. Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Greensboro N.C. Posts: 13,993	Re: Clutch pedal return - slow The torque will twist the engine in it's mounts.If the mounts are old and deteriorated they may be bad allowing the engine to torque over more and this could cause the Z-bar pivot to break,but they usually just break after tons of pressure cycles.I don't know about the spring. __________________ The 47-present Chevrolet and GMC Truck Message Board Network,it's owners,moderators,members,and associates of any type should not be held responsible for my opinion. You can't fix stupid,not even with duct tape. "My appearance is due to the fact that "GOD" does punish you for having too much fun!" Barrett-Jackson has perfected alchemy,they make rust into gold! "You can lead a horse to water but you can't saddle a duck" "Cleverly disguised as a 'Responsible Adult' "Sometimes your Knight in shining armor is just a retard in tinfoil"

10-20-2012, 04:21 PM	#7
sstone69 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Tucker, GA Posts: 128	Re: Clutch pedal return - slow Well I went out today to shoot a video of the Z-bar and how it was cantilevering on the engine stud. Shifted it once and this happened. Talk about metal fatigue. I see LMC sells the whole linkage kit, has anyone replaced theirs with this kit? Attached Images __________________ "You gonna pull them pistols or whistle dixie ?"

10-26-2012, 05:59 PM	#8
sstone69 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Tucker, GA Posts: 128	Re: Clutch pedal return - slow Update on the z-bar and the clutch pedal slowness. Finally pulled the Z-bar out and found that the engine block stud that the Z-bar connects to is broken. It is sheared off right at the engine block. Is there any way to get the remaining part of the stud out? It looks like it is almost impossible to get access to it without pulling the engine. Any thoughts or anyone do this without pulling the engine? __________________ "You gonna pull them pistols or whistle dixie ?"

10-26-2012, 06:19 PM	#9
mgkgmc Registered User Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Glendale Arizona Posts: 1,354	Re: Clutch pedal return - slow Try cutting a notch in the bolt with a dremel if you can and get it off with a flat head screw driver or get a bolt extractor. __________________ 1970 GMC 1500 stepside 1972 GMC Jimmy Custom 2004 Chevy Colorado 1989 Swb Silverado 1972 Aj's Stormer

10-26-2012, 06:47 PM	#10
sstone69 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Tucker, GA Posts: 128	Re: Clutch pedal return - slow Good idea , except it broke off into the engine block. I think if I try to use a dremel tool it will mess up the threads on the engine block. I may try to get a dremel down in there with a drill bit I don't think there is enough room though. __________________ "You gonna pull them pistols or whistle dixie ?"



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