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#1 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 1,280
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Need help Bad, please
This is the order of events:
1. Front brakes and wheel cylinders removed 2. All hardware replaced (Retainer issue fixed) I had good brake pressure before. (These are power brake drums) but I cannot build pressure back. I have bled them the normal way then gravity bled them with almost half a gallon of fluids, no visible leaks, just cannot get pressure. Shouldn't I be able to bleed the front end on it's own since it is in a separate loop than the rear? What else can I do?? Thanks. |
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#2 |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Lacombe, Alberta
Posts: 288
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Re: Need help Bad, please
1- visually inspect all brake lines for leaks because if fluid can get out, air can get in
2 if disks ensure right side up and on correct side of vehicle (calipers can be switched side to side, which will leave the bleeder screw pointing down and your brakes wont bleed out. Yes, the front and rear should bleed separately. What is your bleeding procedure? Posted via Mobile Device |
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#3 |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Cheyenne Wy
Posts: 208
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Re: Need help Bad, please
I'd bleed all the lines, don't forget to check the cap for leaks. I had to use two rubber gaskets on my master cylinder to get it to seal (i.e. build pressure).
I seen bubbles while my buddy pumped the pedal, if the lid don't seal you will not get pressure. I eventually decided to gravity bleed the lines in the correct order (farthest to close). Took about an hour and gave me time to unwind.
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________________________ 72 Olds Cutlass w/442 option 69 C-10 Short Bed Fleet 1960 Biscayne Wagon/El Camino 1995 YJ 4.0 SOA SYE on 35s 01 Excursion Limited 7.3 PSD 06 Suzuki DRZ 400S Last edited by Secret Squirrel; 10-31-2012 at 10:51 PM. |
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#4 | |
Watch out for your cornhole !
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Re: Need help Bad, please
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#5 | |
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Ruskin Florida
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Re: Need help Bad, please
Quote:
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#6 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 1,280
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Re: Need help Bad, please
Ok. Thank you. Can air in the rear lines mess up the front when they are on different circuits?
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#7 |
Account Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: phx, az
Posts: 868
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Re: Need help Bad, please
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#8 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 1,280
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Re: Need help Bad, please
ok. I also cannot get any fluid out of the drive rear bleeder. Is replacing that line hard? Do I have to special order it?
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#9 |
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: chillicothe, illinois
Posts: 688
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Re: Need help Bad, please
You need a master cylinder.
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#10 |
Watch out for your cornhole !
![]() Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Azle, Texas
Posts: 14,162
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Re: Need help Bad, please
You'll probably think this is not very helpful, but over the years, I've gotten to where on every truck I build, I just replace the master cylinder, all wheel cylinders and all three rubber hoses every time. Take all the old stuff off, blow the steel lines out with solvent and air hose, then replace the above mentioned parts. Do the front wheel bearing service and new shoes and hardware as needed at the same time. You might spend 200 bucks doing it this way, but when you pour fluid into the new master cylinder, they will bleed out nice and clean and you'll have fresh brakes to enjoy for a long time. You'd be surprised how nasty the inside of old brake hydraulics get over the years. And hoses swell shut on the inside when they get old. You'll get fluid through them under pressure, but not gravity. And, they'll hold you brakes applied when you release the pedal, ruining your drums and shoes in short order.
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#11 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 1,280
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Re: Need help Bad, please
I will do so. I just figured I didn't need a master cylinder since it was working before but they are cheap.
My Driver's side rear drums have metal hoses attached directly to them. This is normal right? |
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#12 |
Watch out for your cornhole !
![]() Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Azle, Texas
Posts: 14,162
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Re: Need help Bad, please
Yes. You have one rubber hose from the rear frame rail down to the axle, then it splits off with metal hard lines from there over to each wheel cylinder. The rear hose can be a pain to change, but they're dirt cheap and yours is surely pretty beat after all these years.
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#13 |
Active Member
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Location: Centrally located between Houston, Austin and Waco. BCS area.
Posts: 7,947
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Re: Need help Bad, please
Yes. The rubber hoses are located where flexing occurs -on the front wheels and top of rear axle shaft.
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#14 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 1,280
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Re: Need help Bad, please
Ok, so if I replace hte two metal hosesin the rear, the MC and the rubber hose in the rear (The front ones are new) then I can just fill and bleed the system the normal way right?
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#15 |
20' Daredevil (Ret)
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Location: Jefferson State
Posts: 13,623
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Re: Need help Bad, please
If you're gonna do all that, might as well replace the rear wheel cylinders too. They are more likely to be bad than the hard lines anyway. And if they are bad, they can definitely cause a soft brake pedal. Besides, you still haven't fixed the problem of not being able to bleed the rears. Did you ever try to clear out the bleeder valve? If that one rear won't bleed, you'll never have good brakes.
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#16 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 1,280
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Re: Need help Bad, please
I havent tried yet to clear the valve but i will tonight. Wouldn't fluid come out where the valve is though if it was a plugged valve.
Thanks all for the help byt the way. I just love how a simple brake shoe job mushrooms into a thousand more parts, oh well, it's always that was =) |
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#17 | |
20' Daredevil (Ret)
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Location: Jefferson State
Posts: 13,623
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Re: Need help Bad, please
Quote:
If that's the case, you still might have a bad wheel cylinder. Before going into the rear brakes, try cracking open the hard line to the wheel cylinder and see if you can get fluid out of the hard line. If so, the wheel cylinder is definitely bad (plugged). If you can't get fluid out of the hard line, it -- or the hose (or the hard line coming from the MC) -- is plugged or crimped.
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- Mike - 1972 K20 LWB 350/350/205 RIP El Jay |
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#18 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 1,280
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Re: Need help Bad, please
Just so I know, the standard front drum brakes have two retainer springs one is longer than the other. Does the longer one go on the shorter shoe that faces front? I can't imagine it would matter much but I want it perfect.
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#19 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Boise, ID
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Re: Need help Bad, please
I will do that, pull open the hard line, remove and replace while also checking the bleeder valve. Thanks so much for the advice.
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#20 | |
20' Daredevil (Ret)
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Location: Jefferson State
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Re: Need help Bad, please
Quote:
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- Mike - 1972 K20 LWB 350/350/205 RIP El Jay |
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#21 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 1,280
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Re: Need help Bad, please
Yeah, Layed them out only to have them kicked over by the dog but I just didn't pay the right attention. there was a lot going on. That pic is the rear but I bet it applies to the front spring wise. Thanks for the help!
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#22 | |
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Cheyenne Wy
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Re: Need help Bad, please
Quote:
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________________________ 72 Olds Cutlass w/442 option 69 C-10 Short Bed Fleet 1960 Biscayne Wagon/El Camino 1995 YJ 4.0 SOA SYE on 35s 01 Excursion Limited 7.3 PSD 06 Suzuki DRZ 400S |
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#23 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Cheyenne Wy
Posts: 208
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Re: Need help Bad, please
Quote:
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#24 |
BOHICA
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Stewartville, MN
Posts: 440
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Re: Need help Bad, please
One thing that nobody mentioned is to ensure you adjust the shoes out to the drum before you bleed (if you sre pumping the pedal to bleed) other wise you will have a pedal that goes to the floor and you may overstroke the cylinders.
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Trying to save someone from their own stupidity is like teaching a pig to dance. It is a waste of your time, and it annoys the pig! |
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#25 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 1,280
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Re: Need help Bad, please
Got it, thx!
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