NV4500/NP205 question (s)

[SunSoaked]

Finally located a correct GM nv4500 (94). Guys selling me everything (bellhousing, etc). 78K original miles.

I'm told that round hunk of steel on the output is a harmonic damper used with the OEM dual mass flywheel, but it's tuned to the OEM engine and it can be taken off and tossed along with the DM flywheel.

Anybody have any insight on this? Dirty Larry?

By sheer luck, after some conversation, I discovered he also had a 32 long spline input NP205, 6 bolt round pattern, that I was able to buy off him (for a price!).

I think I need an adapter (listed/shown on the AA site) but otherwise it will mate right up. Again anybody have any input?

And yes, I'll be using the AA bellhousing (not the OEM shown), and slave bracket.

Thanks, Mike

[Redcap]

Originally Posted by SunSoaked

Finally located a correct GM nv4500 (94). Guys selling me everything (bellhousing, clutch, etc). 78K original miles.

I'm told that round hunk of steel on the output is a harmonic damper used with the OEM dual mass flywheel, but it's tuned to the OEM engine and it can be taken off and tossed along with the DM flywheel.

Anybody have any insight on this? Dirty Larry?

By sheer luck, after some conversation, I discovered he also had a 32 long spline input NP205, 6 bolt round pattern, that I was able to buy off him (for a price!).

I think I need an adapter (listed/shown on the AA site) but otherwise it will mate right up. Again anybody have any input?

And yes, I'll be using the AA bellhousing (not the OEM shown), and slave bracket.

Thanks, Mike

Killer setup. My buddy Rob did the same thing with his 1-ton crewcab recently and used the AA spacer ring between the transfer case and the aluminum tail-end cover. Same trans ('94) and same transfer case (long 32spl).

Just a question, but...why the change to the AA bell/slave bracket over OEM?

[SunSoaked]

Originally Posted by Redcap

Killer setup. My buddy Rob did the same thing with his 1-ton crewcab recently and used the AA spacer ring between the transfer case and the aluminum tail-end cover. Same trans ('94) and same transfer case (long 32spl).

Just a question, but...why the change to the AA bell/slave bracket over OEM?

I assume I will have clearance issues with a P/S throwout bearing arm with a P/S front driveshaft? The AA is a D/S.

[Redcap]

Originally Posted by SunSoaked

I assume I will have clearance issues with a P/S throwout bearing arm with a P/S front driveshaft? The AA is a D/S.

Possible, though my buddy ran the OEM bellhousing/slave with pass. side driveline and throwout arm with no problem. But I'll agree that moving it to the drivers side (like the earlier generation of hydraulic bellhousing) is a good idea.

[Redcap]

Also, pardon my envy. I have been wanting to do this swap, but can't justify it as my SM465/NP205 have about 3k miles on rebuild.

[DirtyLarry]

That is a nice score on the trans and tcase! That is the NV4500 I originally wanted as it is an earlybird with the 6:54 gear ratio (like an old SM465) rather than the 5:61 ratio.

I believe that damper is more indicative of a diesel like they said but shouldn’t matter if use behind a gas I wouldn’t think. If you are worried about the damper you could remove it and replace it with the spacer that goes in it’s place. Be warned, that nut on the tail shaft is a mo-fo to get on and off! If it were mine, I would run it the way it is…damper and all. Maybe someone else can chime in on that.

[SunSoaked]

Actually, looking thru Larrys build thread specifically this post #113 (Credit to Larry), it appears there is plenty of clearance on the P/S. If thats the case, then I think I can use the 94 Bellhousing and just have to have a hose crossover from the D/S M/C?

I'd prefer to use the OEM and not spend $368 on an AA part I don't really need. The important thing is avoiding the internal slave.

I hear ya. For me, I'm starting from scratch, so I commited myself to getting what I wanted the first time around and not wishing I had done it another way after the fact. It's taken alot of searching, a good amount of cash (although I have gotten some sweet deals) and a big dose of good luck!

[Redcap]

Originally Posted by SunSoaked

Actually, looking thru Larrys build thread specifically this post #113 (Credit to Larry), it appears there is plenty of clearance on the P/S. If thats the case, then I think I can use the 94 Bellhousing and just have to have a hose crossover from the D/S M/C?

I'd prefer to use the OEM and not spend $368 on an AA part I don't really need. The important thing is avoiding the internal slave.

I hear ya. For me, I'm starting from scratch, so I commited myself to getting what I wanted the first time around and not wishing I had done it another way after the fact. It's taken alot of searching, a good amount of cash (although I have gotten some sweet deals) and a big dose of good luck!

The factory hose is a long complicated piece, and, in my not-so-humble opinion, not worth the $90+ from the parts stores. If you can get the ends, have a hydraulic shop make you a piece of braided stainless hose the length you need. That is what we did.

I plan on eventually adding the Ranger OD unit to mine to gain overdrive!

[snj8198]

I have my t-case bolted directly to the trans w/out adapter using the 32 spine input gear as you have. You will need to watch for contact between the tailshaft lip and t-case shift rods. Some clearancing maybe needed.

As for the balancer, Larry's right, it's necessary for DM fly wheels usually used in diesel applications. Without the balancer the trans vibrates enough and destroys the mainshaft. Seen it happen twice now in my buddies '94 6.5L. I have been warned that the balancer should not be used with single piece flywheels but i have a couple acquaintances that are doing this without failure as of yet. So i'm not 100% positive on what to/not to do in this situation.

congrats on your set up. -steve

Larry, so after some use, you have found you would have preferred the lower 6.54 gearing over the taller? Assuming for the trail?

[DirtyLarry]

Originally Posted by snj8198

Larry, so after some use, you have found you would have preferred the lower 6.54 gearing over the taller? Assuming for the trail?

Absolutely, I wish mine had the 6:34 granny gear instead of the 5:61 (I said 6:54 earlier..my bad). Crawling up things isn’t the issue, it is the deep compression braking descending steep inclines is where I really miss the 6:34 in the old SM465 and early NV4500’s. I hate to ride the brakes down these steep inclines we run across off-road but the 5:61 leaves me no choice. Outside of that, the later NV4500 gear ratio spacing is the closest thing to a sportscar shifting truck transmission around. Muy betta road driveability than a dump truck shifting SM465!


GM 92-94

First Gear 6.34
Second Gear 3.44
Third Gear 1.71
Fourth Gear 1.00
Fifth Gear 0.73
Reverse 6.34


95/up GM

First Gear 5.61
Second Gear 3.04
Third Gear 1.67
Fourth Gear 1.00
Fifth Gear 0.73
Reverse 5.61

[SunSoaked]

Originally Posted by snj8198

I have my t-case bolted directly to the trans w/out adapter using the 32 spine input gear as you have. You will need to watch for contact between the tailshaft lip and t-case shift rods. Some clearancing maybe needed.

As for the balancer, Larry's right, it's necessary for DM fly wheels usually used in diesel applications. Without the balancer the trans vibrates enough and destroys the mainshaft. Seen it happen twice now in my buddies '94 6.5L. I have been warned that the balancer should not be used with single piece flywheels but i have a couple acquaintances that are doing this without failure as of yet. So i'm not 100% positive on what to/not to do in this situation.

congrats on your set up. -steve

Larry, so after some use, you have found you would have preferred the lower 6.54 gearing over the taller? Assuming for the trail?

Thanks Steve,
I know for a fact this trans (balancer) came from the factory behind a gas engine. My brief internet research tells me the balancer/Dual Mass Flywheel are a "tuned" system based on the engine. I read theres a link between internal/external balanced engines. I need to do more research and see what the real deal is before running without it.

Is your 205 the "long input"? I'm wondering why AA sells an adapter specifically for the 4500/205 round pattern? I was thinking the adapter was needed with the long but not the short? If its only for the long it looks like it has notches to account for the shift rails.



Product# 50-6910



5/5 (1 Review)

Description

Advance Adapter

This spacer adapter is 1.625" in length and is used when retro fitting a GM NV4500 4wd 5 speed transmission to the 1985-91 GM NP205 with a long input gear. This input gear measures 3.50".




Steve-What bellhousing are you using? Any clearance issues with it (P/S Bearing fork) if indeed its a 93-94 OEM.

Thanks

[snj8198]

I read theres a link between internal/external balanced engines.

I read that too some where back.

Im using the short input so my t-case is bolted directly to the tail of the trans, no adapter or spacer used. The bellhousing is an AA unit for mechanical clutch. I got the whole assembly as a package deal from GearTechHD out on the east coast back in ... ... 2004 ish? The itemized list showed the AA bellhousing priced at $200. Not a bad price compared to them these days but then I also stayed with the mechanical linkage.

[ryanroo]

i have the AA B/H a 94 NV4500 the AA spacer and an 89 round pattern 205. i used a 86 K30 hydraulic clutch set up and the AA bracket to mount the slave. if i was doing it again, i would do it the same. the stock T/O arm location is in a good place to get whacked with the driveline. that could cause more damage at a really bad time than i would prefer to deal with. this is all in my old full size jeep hooked to a tbi 454. i love the combo, but i almost never use the 1st gear. i had a 5.61 nv4500 in the orange truck in my avatar and i think i preferred it. the later ones are synchro'ed in all gears and its nice to be able to go a little faster in reverse.

Ryan

[70custom20]

Originally Posted by snj8198

I read that too some where back.

Im using the short input so my t-case is bolted directly to the tail of the trans, no adapter or spacer used. The bellhousing is an AA unit for mechanical clutch. I got the whole assembly as a package deal from GearTechHD out on the east coast back in ... ... 2004 ish? The itemized list showed the AA bellhousing priced at $200. Not a bad price compared to them these days but then I also stayed with the mechanical linkage.

I have the long input 205 t-case, but I'm going to go the same route that Steve mentioned bolting the trans directly to the t-case. I talked to the guys at ORD and they sell brand new short input shafts, so I'm gonna swap the short shaft into my case. That way the 4500/205 is only about 1 1/2" longer than the 465/205.
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[70custom20]

Originally Posted by snj8198

I have my t-case bolted directly to the trans w/out adapter using the 32 spine input gear as you have. You will need to watch for contact between the tailshaft lip and t-case shift rods. Some clearancing maybe needed.

As for the balancer, Larry's right, it's necessary for DM fly wheels usually used in diesel applications. Without the balancer the trans vibrates enough and destroys the mainshaft. Seen it happen twice now in my buddies '94 6.5L. I have been warned that the balancer should not be used with single piece flywheels but i have a couple acquaintances that are doing this without failure as of yet. So i'm not 100% positive on what to/not to do in this situation.

congrats on your set up. -steve

Larry, so after some use, you have found you would have preferred the lower 6.54 gearing over the taller? Assuming for the trail?

The 4500 trans that I'm using is from a 99 chevy, not sure if it came out of a diesel or a gasser. This whole trans balancer issue is news to me, I didn't know there might be an issue with any of this. Am I to assume I will be safe bolting this unit behind a 454 with a factory flywheel?
Also, I'm not sure which direction to go as far as hydraulic clutch bellhousing, or stay with manual linkage with my truck. The truck is 99.9% street driven, and used as a tow rig for an enclosed car trailer part time.

[SunSoaked]

Well guys-Looks like I got good news and bad news.

Bad news: The guy I was dealing with in PA doesn't give me a "warm fuzzy" as my wife would say, so I'm backing out of the deal since I havent heard from him in a while

Good news: I located a guy selling a complete conversion package in Id that is still in the truck. The 4500 was just rebuilt less than 200 miles ago before he totaled the truck (rolled it). Hes got all the receipts. Its a 93, and comes with a brand new flywheel, clutch and the pedal assembly, M/C, shifter, etc.

The great news is he lives 20 miles from my brother whos a big rig mechanic, so it will be a confident upfront deal. They are going to remove it this weekend.

I'm actually much happier with this deal because its virtually all new and I didn't even factor in the price of a new clutch before.

I also opened a gold mine of parts availability. Being farming country, there are trucks being parted out everywhere.

I'm confidant I'll find that round pattern 205 yet.

Got the package for $1000.

[Redcap]

Originally Posted by SunSoaked

Well guys-Looks like I got good news and bad news.

Bad news: The guy I was dealing with in PA doesn't give me a "warm fuzzy" as my wife would say, so I'm backing out of the deal since I havent heard from him in a while

Good news: I located a guy selling a complete conversion package in Id that is still in the truck. The 4500 was just rebuilt less than 200 miles ago before he totaled the truck (rolled it). Hes got all the receipts. Its a 93, and comes with a brand new flywheel, clutch and the pedal assembly, M/C, shifter, etc.

The great news is he lives 20 miles from my brother whos a big rig mechanic, so it will be a confident upfront deal. They are going to remove it this weekend.

I'm actually much happier with this deal because its virtually all new and I didn't even factor in the price of a new clutch before.

I also opened a gold mine of parts availability. Being farming country, there are trucks being parted out everywhere.

I'm confidant I'll find that round pattern 205 yet.

Got the package for $1000.

That isn't bad at all for a fresh NV4500.

Good luck on the round NP205. I've been looking for that transfercase for a friend and they seem to be selling for $400-500 locally...when you can find one.

[DirtyLarry]

Originally Posted by SunSoaked

Well guys-Looks like I got good news and bad news.

Bad news: The guy I was dealing with in PA doesn't give me a "warm fuzzy" as my wife would say, so I'm backing out of the deal since I havent heard from him in a while

WHAT!? You had me believing this was something you already scored only to find out you were still working the deal.

I agree, with Redcap, good luck in finding that round 205 thus the reason my truck ended up with a 27 spline figure 8 205 behind the NV4500. I couldn’t find a round 205 and when I did, I refuse to pay what people thought they were worth. I am a tight whad about that kind of stuff which is why it took me 16 years to get a D60 that didn't leave me feeling like rape victim after doing the deal.

[ryanroo]

i went around in circles looking for the roundy 205 too. i bought one in maine and shipped it here and then bought one locally (attached to the 86 K30 i found for 1300$) maybe a week or two later. now i have a secret one in hiding!

Ryan

[ryanroo]

i went around in circles looking for the roundy 205 too. i bought one in maine and shipped it here and then bought one locally (attached to the 86 K30 i found for 1300$) maybe a week or two later. now i have a secret one in hiding!

Ryan

[SunSoaked]

Originally Posted by DirtyLarry

WHAT!? You had me believing this was something you already scored only to find out you were still working the deal.

I agree, with Redcap, good luck in finding that round 205 thus the reason my truck ended up with a 27 spline figure 8 205 behind the NV4500. I couldn’t find a round 205 and when I did, I refuse to pay what people thought they were worth. I am a tight whad about that kind of stuff which is why it took me 16 years to get a D60 that didn't leave me feeling like rape victim after doing the deal.

I was very careful to say "locate" in the initial thread. Until it's in my possesion nothings ever 100% sure.

I did say "buy off of him" regarding the t-case. My bad, should have said "agreed to sell".

He is still willing to sell me the round 205 for $400. I would pay that but I'm a little cautious about the deal since he's on the east coast and I'm on the west. At least with the new score on the 4500, I have family that can check it out and pick it up for me. Plus its freshly rebuilt and comes with a new clutch/flywheel. Thats got to be worth a few $ huh? I have already "LOCATED" another round 205 in that area. It helps to have someone there who knows the locals.

[SunSoaked]

Originally Posted by Redcap

That isn't bad at all for a fresh NV4500.

Good luck on the round NP205. I've been looking for that transfercase for a friend and they seem to be selling for $400-500 locally...when you can find one.

If you find one locally for $400 let me know. I'll take it. I'm only building my "dream" truck once.

[SunSoaked]

Originally Posted by ryanroo

i went around in circles looking for the roundy 205 too. i bought one in maine and shipped it here and then bought one locally (attached to the 86 K30 i found for 1300$) maybe a week or two later. now i have a secret one in hiding!

Ryan

It's not a secret anymore. Does that imply you want to sell it ?

[Redcap]

Originally Posted by SunSoaked

If you find one locally for $400 let me know. I'll take it. I'm only building my "dream" truck once.

I'll keep watching Craigslist.

[ryanroo]

Originally Posted by SunSoaked

It's not a secret anymore. Does that imply you want to sell it ?

um... i'm not sure. i don't have an immediate use for it but i do have plans for my other truck that may include it. ill think about it. i have a hoarding issue with chevy parts if you had a lead on a 78-79 ford dana 60 dually, i would be way easier to convince i didn't need it

ryan