Why has no one tried to fabricate a new hatch?

[skorpioskorpio]

I keep seeing all the problems with the original hatch, and honestly when you look at most of the newer pickup shells it seems like maybe either a full glass or steel or aluminum framed with surface mounted glass would look great on one of these trucks, and I wouldn't think it would be difficult to surface mount the side glass either giving the whole top an updated look. I mean all 3 panes are flat glass, this is all something just about any glass shop can cut, or for that matter be cut on a waterjet, including mounting holes for the hinges and latch.

Thoughts?

[jjzepplin]

I think you are on to something! I have thought about this many times just never had the time to do it. It would be much lighter and could use newer shock type struts to hold it open. I say go for it! I have also wondered why someone hasn't reproduced a good single-wall top that I could get off myself??

[panhead59]

My guess is that the demand is not big enough or long lasting enough. On this site they would be huge, but think about it- there really aren't that many blazers of this era left. And that number goes down everyday. That's what really gets to me. People balk at paying $200- to whatever, for a used top that isn't even available anymore, and complain about it!!! Unbeleivable!! People want something for nothing and they want it perfect or "clean and rust free"!!! Come on people, if u want something unique, cool, getting rare, u gotta pay for it!! Jeeeeesssss!!!! So if a small time outfit were to replicate these "hatches" I think it would go over great at the beginning and most likely sell a lot of em and then sales would slow down to a bare trickle. Just my opinion.

[skorpioskorpio]

I don't think there is really a market to fabricate, tool up, and produce new tops, hell if there was, is this ever an application for carbon fiber! It'd need half the structure, so weigh, what? maybe 150-175lbs with glass....bigger glass. I could be an inner and outer skin with a foam core, made from a mold from a original top on the outside, and then just what you need on the inside to mate with the truck. Anyway, back to glass...

For the sides you could make maybe an inner and outer frame the shape of the side window out of aluminum, 3-4mm maybe, with a 1/2" rim (on a waterjet) that is sandwiched either side of the existing top lip. these are screwed to each other with spacers to compensate for the top wall thickness in between. That structure is just siliconed in place to seal it to the top. You'd probably need a rubber interface gasket in between the frame and glass which could also be cut on a waterjet. The rubber gasket is glued to the frame and then the glass glued to the rubber --OR-- when the glass is cut, now remember this is now glass intended to fill the entire recess in the top and not just fit into the OEM gasket, it could have the holes in it for several of those glass mounting buttons they use for flip out windows to hold it in place. You could even make flip outs part of the deal if you wanted.

The back is trickier because it needs to open, needs enough structure to lock, to work with struts, and will *move* more being against the tailgate, and most importantly seal against a surface that was intended to have something 2 inches thick there. Maybe there needs to be a component of it that screws into the original top to simplify that part of it. I really need to get a good look at how Leer does it, they are making tops now that are all surface mount glass and they have mostly the same issues to contend with. What I'm thinking is that if most of this can be done as waterjet patterns and minimize the amount of post fabrication process this can be reproducible. In that sense there is no tooling, jigs, molds, it's just a pattern and a process.

It's probably also best that, at least the hatch, be easily removable to reduce the weight of taking the top on and off as well as risking breaking the rear glass in that process. It would probably be best to use laminated glass, because it's quite strong and is also a cut and done process where as tempered would need to be cut, and then tempered. I was thinking that using that tint-in-the-laminate type of glass that GM used on the back sides and rear windows of later Suburbans with the privacy glass option.

To do this as parts on the shelf would put it at a cost that would further limit it's market and make it an impractical aftermarket product, I was thinking more along the lines of a collaborative How-To.

All this said, this is mostly a brain dump at this point to a problem I want to address at some point, but is probably a next summer project. I have access to the water jet (equipped for glass and metal) and access to a CNC mill but I'm not sure it's needed for this. I'm really just trying to open a discussion on the subject to bounce ideas. Honestly the side glass and hatch on these old blazers is it's weakest feature, the top itself looks like something that a car manufacture produced but the hatch and glass is all very 1960-70s aftermarkety looking, well that hatch mostly. Almost looks like something that came off a kit car. Certainly something that could be done better and probably look more factory than the factory did.

[jjzepplin]

I think we've found our man

[noco-k5]

I would think one of the companies that make aftermarket truck toppers could do this easily since they are constantly changing things as new models of trucks come out. I guess if it was some huge profit opportunity though somebody would have done it by now.

[skorpioskorpio]

Originally Posted by noco-k5

I would think one of the companies that make aftermarket truck toppers could do this easily since they are constantly changing things as new models of trucks come out. I guess if it was some huge profit opportunity though somebody would have done it by now.

More importantly, I am surprised there wasn't aftermarket ones in the beginning, although given the time they probably would have been made out of aluminum extrusions and decorated with fake wood and bubble windows.

[72gmcshorty]

i asked a long time ago if the back glass from a 90's style full size blazer would work but nobody ever responded...

[skorpioskorpio]

My guess would be that the later Blazers are all curved glass, a whole other thing. Even Leers caps are curved glass. Flat glass by comparison is cake, and if it's not tempered it's cream filled cake.

The guy I know with the water jet cuts 3/4" granite and marble on it all day long. Glass, non-tempered glass, is easy, and aluminum cuts like butter on it. Gaskets wouldn't even need an abrasive you can cut those with water only. Smooth edge, accurate to tolerances way more than you need for this. He cuts stone inlays that drop into each other with virtually zero space in between inside and outside pieces, remember this is 3/4" thick material, he has also done brass inlays that drop into stone. It's cool stuff, but only 2 dimensional, so you have to think that way.

My 1991 Suburban, which is still part of the 73-87 series which went to 91 on Blazers, Subs and crews is all curved glass, nothing flat on those. Much more limiting to what you can do with glass on those.

And hey, with a new hatch with bigger glass you might even stick a wiper on it considering the top is only on when the weather is crappy. Just have to make the mount in the frame for an auto return marine wiper motor. The thing I don't know is what they use as a blackout mask when they do this on cars with surface mounted glass to hide the gaskets, frame and structure. I can't think of anything you could use that wouldn't weaken the bond of the frame to the glass. Any glass guys on here?

[skorpioskorpio]

Alas, I think my point has been lost.

[fxdxharley]

Im no glass guy and im far from needing to work on my top but i think you have a valid idea. as for the cost though I think it may be more than what most would be willing to pay for the one off glass / hatch. but for the cool factor hell yeah it would be nice.

[tubbedII]

Originally Posted by 72gmcshorty

i asked a long time ago if the back glass from a 90's style full size blazer would work but nobody ever responded...

It would take some work, but I've always thought it'd be cool to take a 73+ top and chop off the rear hatch portion...mold it to the 72- top and then fit the motorized glass in the 72- tailgate. To me it sounds easy in theory...but I don't have the skills to pull it off...

[truckster]

Originally Posted by skorpioskorpio

Alas, I think my point has been lost.

I don't think so; it's at least got me thinking. I parted out a car my son wrecked a while ago and kept the gas struts from the trunk to use on my hatch. Maybe I'll modify my plan; we'll see what time and budget allow.

Originally Posted by tubbedII

It would take some work, but I've always thought it'd be cool to take a 73+ top and chop off the rear hatch portion...mold it to the 72- top and then fit the motorized glass in the 72- tailgate. To me it sounds easy in theory...but I don't have the skills to pull it off...

The motorized glass was great in theory, but it suffered from a couple of problems. First, the glass is big, and it was too heavy for the motor and the plastic rollers on the regulator. The motors had a problem with burning out, and the regulators would wear out. Second, the design left a lot of room for dust and dirt and water to enter, especially since the partial vacuum at any kind of speed pulls those things into the back. This resulted in increased wear and rusting.

So it might be good if you're doing a show car, just for the "custom" look, but in practice you might find it wasn't worth the effort.

[skorpioskorpio]

Originally Posted by tubbedII

It would take some work, but I've always thought it'd be cool to take a 73+ top and chop off the rear hatch portion...mold it to the 72- top and then fit the motorized glass in the 72- tailgate. To me it sounds easy in theory...but I don't have the skills to pull it off...

Yea, thought that too, even to the point that I was thinking about power side windows as well. You'd radically reduce the weight of the top, and you could use the glass with a soft top as well. But you know, I have a 1991 Sub that I bought new and it has cargo doors on it for the simple reason that the tailgate was kind of a disaster. The windows would get stuck, sometimes would break and free-fall into the tailgate shattering the window inside. Also I think the 69-72 tailgate would require a whole lot of mods to make this happen, it's just not structured to easily adapt to such a thing. And the roll up side glass, well I think the wheel hump is a big problem.

I'm not opposed to radical solutions to problems, as my quandary may suggest, but I'd rather they be more engineered solutions than artistic ones. The surface mounted glass is something used on virtually every new car these days and even in some senses (mechanical buttons) used as far back as the days of these trucks so it's really not so radical a concept just maybe a radical adaptation. Power glass, hmm, lot of engineering and artistry to make that work. It'd take every last fraction of an inch to fit the glass that would fill that hole in the back of the top into the tailgate.

[bk04z66]

My image is a fiberglass filler panel (spacer)that is mounted to the roof and full flush glass. This is the plan for my 71 hatch replacement. The rear glass in my c4 is the structure of the hatch, there is no reason glass can not be the structure for this.

[skorpioskorpio]

My one concern with using the glass a structural member is that it needs to lock and hold the tailgate closed. I think on most all glass hatches the tailgate is the primary locking device and not the hatch. I realize a handle relocation solves a lot of that but it still needs to be a 3 point lock I would think. I'd also be a little concerned that the original top is more prone to flex than the typical steel frame structure that all glass hatches are usually attached to. Then again, I'm betting Leer is dealing with these same issues with half the structure in their toppers, so maybe I'm just being paranoid.

I am assuming what you are suggesting is simply making a fiberglass piece that moves the mating lip further out to the edge where you can attach a soft weather seal to it for the glass to rest against, right?

[bk04z66]

Yes, and my vette moves around more than a wet noodle. Its hatch is curved which adds to its strength, but a thick enough piece of glass with a latch that allows it to move around some will be fine. Its low on my list for my blazer, but a glass hatch is on the to do list.

[Wasted Income]

If you come up with something good, I'll be in line to buy it.

[in deep 72]

Hmmm, now you all have me thinking. An all glass hatch would be cool! Just got done stripping an M series Bobcat out...the door on them is all glass, small frame mounts to the inside to go from hindges to the latch and has a really nice seal. I know they go through a beating so bumps and vibrations shouldn't be an issue. Might have to do some engineering myself to see what I can come up with......although I rarely run with a top it would be nice to have if I needed.

[theastronaut]

Originally Posted by skorpioskorpio

The thing I don't know is what they use as a blackout mask when they do this on cars with surface mounted glass to hide the gaskets, frame and structure. I can't think of anything you could use that wouldn't weaken the bond of the frame to the glass. Any glass guys on here?

The factory blacked out areas (called "frit") are made of ceramic. We have had good luck using pinchweld primer made for urethane windshield adhesive to black out the edges of flush mount glass.

Just doing a quick google search turned up this place that can apply custom frits.

http://www.decotherm.net/

[skorpioskorpio]

Good info on the "Frit", something to look into.

[Pife]

I am making currently working on making my original top into a four piece top. sides and back removable and the top stays on, or you can remove it too. I still have a long way to go!

[Wasted Income]

Originally Posted by Pife

I am making currently working on making my original top into a four piece top. sides and back removable and the top stays on, or you can remove it too. I still have a long way to go!

Badass! Post some pics!

[mcmlxix]

Originally Posted by Pife

I am making currently working on making my original top into a four piece top. sides and back removable and the top stays on, or you can remove it too. I still have a long way to go!

I like this too...

[hgs_notes]

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