89 5.7l issues... she won't play nice - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

JaggedEdge · 11-26-2012, 06:31 PM

Ok, Im' gonna try and give all the pertinent info so bear with me. Shop remodel... load of demo sheetrock... go to the "pack mule" a retired service truck. 1989 Chev K1500 5.7l auto factory non-ac truck. Been sitting in the storage building with all my other "projects" for almost a year. Battery is hot, tires all have air, starts right up. Has about an eighth tank gas, so go fill it up. Load all the demo to hual to transfer station in town about 6 blocks away.
Pull out the door truck dies, Crank , crank, nothing. Pull breather.. can't tell if fuel, but can hear pump prime and shut off. Check spark... nothing. Had a 79 Impala that ate ignition modules every six months, so mind says.. meh... lets try it. Hot shot in my DD to Oreillys and get a replacement module. Cleaned the dist. base, made sure to evenly distribute paste, install new module. Put it all back together... fires right up! Lets get this thing unloaded.
Runs really rough to the transfer station. Turn it off to unload, get 'er done, starts right up. Still running really rough, tries to die, sputters, then blows the muffler into pieces!! Get back to shop ok. Stutters, stumbles, and backfires the whole way. NO trouble light... nothing.
Ok let's start to figure out what went wrong. When I put the module in the dist. the hold-down bolt was a little on the loose side,(could turn the dist. with very little pressure.) Thought I might have gotten it out of time. Put a light on it, unplugged the tan timing wire as directed, set the timing to 0 degrees as recommended by the decal on the fan shroud. Noticed the service engine light was now lit. Shut it off, plugged the wire back in, started it up. Still ran the same.
The exhaust was "burn your eyes" super rich, and when you accelerated it stumbled, and backfired, couple times through the TBI, but mostly exhaust.
Did the paper clip trick and played "count the flashes" (no scanner). Got the usual 12...12...12... then 33 three times, then 42 three times. Interesting.
Took the battery cable off to reset... fired it up... same deal only no service engine light. Can't really give it a run-out on the road to reset the "learning curve" as it won't run over 15 mph.
Anyone want to take a stab at it???
I am of the old school, non computerized generation, and know my way around the inside and outside of chevy's, but when it comes to computerized fuel systems I am nowhere.
I am curious why it set the 33 code when I was timing it, but not afterwards. Still has not set a code.
I changed the fuel filter, but do not have the tools to test fuel pressure. (yet) I do hear the pump run for a few seconds after I shut the engine off.
I also noted it takes 35-45 seconds for the fast idle start to come down to normal idle. It did not do this previously. Engine is up to operating temp.
I also wonder if the dunzleheads at Oreillys might have given me the wrong module.
I will try to answer questions if anyone wants to offer some diagnostic help!! And it would be GREATLY appreciated!!

wayfastwhitey · 11-26-2012, 08:30 PM

How does the fuel spray pattern look coming out of the injectors? Maybe the ect sensor has gone rogue? Check the grounds on the front of the intake for corrosion. Check your confections at the map sensor etc. etc...
Posted via Mobile Device

JaggedEdge · 11-26-2012, 08:39 PM

Fuel spray while it is running (idles just fine) looks good to me, but then I wouldn't really know what to look for.
Reading some of the other threads I am thinking the ect and the feul pressure are worth looking into, but won't have the means to test them until tomorrow.
I changed the filter right after I changed the module and reset the timing, thinking the gas might have been bad before I filled it up, but I only drove it less than a mile before filling it with fresh gas.

stocker96 · 11-26-2012, 11:10 PM

this sounds a little weired, but check you coolant temp sensor, no, just replace it, they are cheap and easy to replace. just try it. my 90 did this but once it died, it would not start until it completely cooled.

Blue_71 · 11-27-2012, 01:31 PM

could be a crappy connection between the pickup coil and the ignition module also; the wires will sometimes break inside the insulation. or it could be a cracked magnet inside the distributor

JaggedEdge · 11-27-2012, 08:15 PM

Well ok... that was too freakin' simple. Got to the shop this afternoon and started checking things. Turns out there are two wires right next to the ECT sensor, on a crimped ring terminal grounded to the thermostat neck. Problem was... the ring was no longer attached. Clipped the stub off, crimped on a new terminal, and moved it to the front manifold bolt. Started her up....no backfire, no miss, nothin'!! Running fairly smooth, so I feel a little more confident in taking it out on the road and not ending up walking.
Ran it about ten miles down the highway, turned around and headed back and the SES light comes on. Seems to still run ok.
Got back and paper clipped it again and get a code 32. EGR valve does not change the MAP signal.
So since I am new to this routine, I want to ask... once you read the codes by this method ... does it clear them?? Reason I ask, I thought you had to remove a battery cable to reset the codes.
After reading the codes, I check to make sure all the rubber fittings are good on the EGR piping, and not crumbling. They all look fine. Without taking the battery cable off, I start the truck again, and the SES light is no longer on.
Any ideas??
And thank you to all who have responded, I really appreciate your help!!

TennesseeZ · 11-27-2012, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaggedEdge

Well ok... that was too freakin' simple. Got to the shop this afternoon and started checking things. Turns out there are two wires right next to the ECT sensor, on a crimped ring terminal grounded to the thermostat neck. Problem was... the ring was no longer attached. Clipped the stub off, crimped on a new terminal, and moved it to the front manifold bolt. Started her up....no backfire, no miss, nothin'!! Running fairly smooth, so I feel a little more confident in taking it out on the road and not ending up walking.
Ran it about ten miles down the highway, turned around and headed back and the SES light comes on. Seems to still run ok.
Got back and paper clipped it again and get a code 32. EGR valve does not change the MAP signal.
So since I am new to this routine, I want to ask... once you read the codes by this method ... does it clear them?? Reason I ask, I thought you had to remove a battery cable to reset the codes.
After reading the codes, I check to make sure all the rubber fittings are good on the EGR piping, and not crumbling. They all look fine. Without taking the battery cable off, I start the truck again, and the SES light is no longer on.
Any ideas??And thank you to all who have responded, I really appreciate your help!!

Yes, IIRC on an 89 you must interrupt battery power to the ECM to clear the codes. Just reading the codes does not reset the ECM. The time required varies from @5sec to a minute or 2, depending where you read. I leave it disconnected @1 min, but have used less. 1 minute will work. Anything that interrupts the power to the ECM will work, sometimes there's a fuse underhood that you can pull. I think there's also an "ECM" fuse in the fuse panel on the dashboard. Disconnecting the battery cable will definately work, but sometimes there's an easier way.

Sounds like it was never cleared. That code, at least on my vehicle, is an "intermittent", only comes on when certain criteria is met. I'd clear the codes, read them to confirm you get "12" more than 3 times in a row, and no other codes, then drive it 5 mi or so at varying conditions and see if it sets anything.

I'm sure someone with more concise info will be in here before long.

wayfastwhitey · 11-28-2012, 01:35 AM

Glad you got that straightened out for the most part. My last truck had the same issues intermittently but stopped when I just unbolted the ring terminal, taped it up and tucked it away. Odd isn't it how that works?

I prefer to let codes clear themselves but taking a cable off for a bit or cutting power to the ecm works too, I just wouldn't remove the ecm fuse with the ignition forward, and I think its ecm A not B that you need
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JaggedEdge · 11-28-2012, 10:24 AM

Yup... thanks "wayfast"! the ground was the major issue making it run sick. I am still a little confused about the code clearing.
When I got back from the test drive, it had lit the SES light, but after paper clipping and reading them, I started it up and the SES light was gone. I can't figure out how that happened.
If I understand correctly, the code it was showing (32) is an "intermittent"????
Does this mean that the code will remain stored in the ecm but the SES light will only come on if the perfect conditions are met again??
Guess I thought the light stayed on until the problem was fixed, or error code cleared.
Still have to deal with the egr issue, but at least its running and driving!! Is the egr valve something that could be cleaned or is it automatic replacement??
Thanks again for all who are participating, it's a great help!

TennesseeZ · 11-28-2012, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaggedEdge

Yup... thanks "wayfast"! the ground was the major issue making it run sick. I am still a little confused about the code clearing.
When I got back from the test drive, it had lit the SES light, but after paper clipping and reading them, I started it up and the SES light was gone. I can't figure out how that happened.
If I understand correctly, the code it was showing (32) is an "intermittent"????
Does this mean that the code will remain stored in the ecm but the SES light will only come on if the perfect conditions are met again??
Guess I thought the light stayed on until the problem was fixed, or error code cleared.
Still have to deal with the egr issue, but at least its running and driving!! Is the egr valve something that could be cleaned or is it automatic replacement??
Thanks again for all who are participating, it's a great help!

Suggest you do a search (above) using the "67-72 Chevy trucks.com button, for EGR valve issues. They seem to be picky on these trucks, been many threads on the subject. General consensus seems to be replace with OEM part, paying particular attention to the original part number. Seems there have been many issues with generic and/or aftermarket replacements. I'm no expert on these trucks, mostly a mid level skilled DIYer, most of my experience is on the vehicles in my sig, and I frequently ask for guidance on them. Just trying to pass on what I think I know till a skilled tech takes over. I think the code you have is an intermittent (sometimes called a "soft" code?)that only comes on when certain criteria is met. Yes it is stored in the ECM memory. I'm not sure if cleaning the EGR valve and passages helps or not, IIRC most people end up replacing it. Hopefully a real Tech will reply soon and give you more concise info, and correct any misleading info I've given.

JaggedEdge · 11-28-2012, 11:49 AM

TennesseeZ thanks for the help!! I don't see any misleading info in any of your posts!! I appreciate people such as you that take the time to give their experiences with these trucks. As I said earlier, I hark back to a time when you didn't have electronic fuel management on trucks, and emissions was just taking concern.
My recent experience has been "get in and drive". Thankfully I have had some trucks that all you needed to do was just that.
The 89 in question has been a "backup" that does the dirty job when I need it to, or when my daily driver is loaded with tools. ( I am ashamed to say it is a Ferd, but proud to say I WILL NEVER BUY ANOTHER ONE. 5.4 Triton... just try and change the plugs

)
I am a craigslist junkie, and buy and sell trucks that need a little "gathering up". I have always taken then to a small shop locally for any engine work, because I did not know anything about these systems.
Just like the computer I am on, I have pretty much been forced to learn a little about them, or get left behind.
I have a 93 ext cab 4x with the same engine, that is undergoing an extreme transformation right now. I hope to have a build thread up soon. Same thing... it was someone elses "beater" that ended up on craigs for a song. I'll probably post some questions on it soon, as it appears the throttle body has been swapped, and there are some key parts missing. Now that I have started learning a little more about how the system on these trucks works, I am surprised that it ran long enough to drive it home. Heck, I am surprised it will start and run at all.
I hope I don't become a nuisance with all the questions. Everyone had to learn somewhere. Thanks for the help!!

wayfastwhitey · 11-28-2012, 01:22 PM

Singin' on craigslist is my favorite...

At 23 I am on vehicle #30 and only twice have I given more than a thousand dollars for a vehicle.

I'm glad you got it straightened out for the most part, these trucks are touchy but they're pretty simple still, easy to learn for sure, if you got the basics, for the most part you'll be alright with just a wrench and your paper clip.

Even if it tosses a code chances are it will still run when you need it.
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ChevyTech · 11-28-2012, 10:46 PM

Quote:

When I got back from the test drive, it had lit the SES light, but after paper clipping and reading them, I started it up and the SES light was gone. I can't figure out how that happened.
If I understand correctly, the code it was showing (32) is an "intermittent"????

Yes, but if they light came on, it just hit the conditions to do a self test, and has failed the test.

Think of this as a good sign, because a really mess up truck will never reach the criteria to run a self test of the EGR.

Quote:

Does this mean that the code will remain stored in the ecm but the SES light will only come on if the perfect conditions are met again??

Yes

Quote:

Guess I thought the light stayed on until the problem was fixed, or error code cleared.

No, you are confusing this with the newer OBD2 system, where many of the codes leave the light on once they set.

Quote:

Still have to deal with the egr issue, but at least its running and driving!! Is the egr valve something that could be cleaned or is it automatic replacement??
Thanks again for all who are participating, it's a great help!

Here is a long thread from the FAQ sticky at the top of the board that covers EGR fairly well:
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=347247

Here is another very long thread that has a lot of good information on TBI diagnosis:
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=348308

stocker96 · 11-28-2012, 11:53 PM

Change plugs on a 5.4? I thought they just blew out when they needed attention

Glad you got it up and going. Ive never cleaned an EGR It's probably possible, but I always just replace with an OEM one.

JaggedEdge · 11-29-2012, 12:56 AM

Stocker the top part of a 5.4 plug pops off like a thanksgiving turkey when its time to change them. The electrode stays in the head until you take a hammer and a drift pin and drive it into the cylinder. Thats what they put that extra valve in there for... to give it a way to blow out. Geez... you chevy guys don't know squat 'bout Ferds.

11-26-2012, 06:31 PM	#1
JaggedEdge Registered User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Western Oklahoma Posts: 48	89 5.7l issues... she won't play nice Ok, Im' gonna try and give all the pertinent info so bear with me. Shop remodel... load of demo sheetrock... go to the "pack mule" a retired service truck. 1989 Chev K1500 5.7l auto factory non-ac truck. Been sitting in the storage building with all my other "projects" for almost a year. Battery is hot, tires all have air, starts right up. Has about an eighth tank gas, so go fill it up. Load all the demo to hual to transfer station in town about 6 blocks away. Pull out the door truck dies, Crank , crank, nothing. Pull breather.. can't tell if fuel, but can hear pump prime and shut off. Check spark... nothing. Had a 79 Impala that ate ignition modules every six months, so mind says.. meh... lets try it. Hot shot in my DD to Oreillys and get a replacement module. Cleaned the dist. base, made sure to evenly distribute paste, install new module. Put it all back together... fires right up! Lets get this thing unloaded. Runs really rough to the transfer station. Turn it off to unload, get 'er done, starts right up. Still running really rough, tries to die, sputters, then blows the muffler into pieces!! Get back to shop ok. Stutters, stumbles, and backfires the whole way. NO trouble light... nothing. Ok let's start to figure out what went wrong. When I put the module in the dist. the hold-down bolt was a little on the loose side,(could turn the dist. with very little pressure.) Thought I might have gotten it out of time. Put a light on it, unplugged the tan timing wire as directed, set the timing to 0 degrees as recommended by the decal on the fan shroud. Noticed the service engine light was now lit. Shut it off, plugged the wire back in, started it up. Still ran the same. The exhaust was "burn your eyes" super rich, and when you accelerated it stumbled, and backfired, couple times through the TBI, but mostly exhaust. Did the paper clip trick and played "count the flashes" (no scanner). Got the usual 12...12...12... then 33 three times, then 42 three times. Interesting. Took the battery cable off to reset... fired it up... same deal only no service engine light. Can't really give it a run-out on the road to reset the "learning curve" as it won't run over 15 mph. Anyone want to take a stab at it??? I am of the old school, non computerized generation, and know my way around the inside and outside of chevy's, but when it comes to computerized fuel systems I am nowhere. I am curious why it set the 33 code when I was timing it, but not afterwards. Still has not set a code. I changed the fuel filter, but do not have the tools to test fuel pressure. (yet) I do hear the pump run for a few seconds after I shut the engine off. I also noted it takes 35-45 seconds for the fast idle start to come down to normal idle. It did not do this previously. Engine is up to operating temp. I also wonder if the dunzleheads at Oreillys might have given me the wrong module. I will try to answer questions if anyone wants to offer some diagnostic help!! And it would be GREATLY appreciated!! Last edited by JaggedEdge; 11-26-2012 at 06:43 PM. Reason: spellin'

11-26-2012, 08:30 PM	#2
wayfastwhitey right below above average joe Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: palm bay, fl Posts: 107	Re: 89 5.7l issues... she won't play nice How does the fuel spray pattern look coming out of the injectors? Maybe the ect sensor has gone rogue? Check the grounds on the front of the intake for corrosion. Check your confections at the map sensor etc. etc... Posted via Mobile Device __________________ i flush the of weakness with mushroom clouds at hand '95 short bed x cab c1500... just another old truck someone else beat up, abused, hacked and didnt respect... my turn to turn it into a beat up old truck into a beat up and reliable pleasure to drive... them- "when you gonna put an exhaust on that thing?" me- "what do you mean? The exhaust comes all the way to the bumber and sounds great!" them- "straight pipes isnt an exhaust man..." me- "meh... who needs a fancy muffler when you've got straight pipes? its got a cat, doesnt resonate, and I like how it sounds, and to be perfectly honest, it makes me behave myself when I'm out and about!" ^^^ favorite conversation about my truck to date

11-26-2012, 11:10 PM	#4
stocker96 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: North Road, Alaska Posts: 154	Re: 89 5.7l issues... she won't play nice this sounds a little weired, but check you coolant temp sensor, no, just replace it, they are cheap and easy to replace. just try it. my 90 did this but once it died, it would not start until it completely cooled.

11-27-2012, 08:15 PM	#6
JaggedEdge Registered User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Western Oklahoma Posts: 48	Re: 89 5.7l issues... she won't play nice Well ok... that was too freakin' simple. Got to the shop this afternoon and started checking things. Turns out there are two wires right next to the ECT sensor, on a crimped ring terminal grounded to the thermostat neck. Problem was... the ring was no longer attached. Clipped the stub off, crimped on a new terminal, and moved it to the front manifold bolt. Started her up....no backfire, no miss, nothin'!! Running fairly smooth, so I feel a little more confident in taking it out on the road and not ending up walking. Ran it about ten miles down the highway, turned around and headed back and the SES light comes on. Seems to still run ok. Got back and paper clipped it again and get a code 32. EGR valve does not change the MAP signal. So since I am new to this routine, I want to ask... once you read the codes by this method ... does it clear them?? Reason I ask, I thought you had to remove a battery cable to reset the codes. After reading the codes, I check to make sure all the rubber fittings are good on the EGR piping, and not crumbling. They all look fine. Without taking the battery cable off, I start the truck again, and the SES light is no longer on. Any ideas?? And thank you to all who have responded, I really appreciate your help!!

11-28-2012, 01:35 AM	#8
wayfastwhitey right below above average joe Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: palm bay, fl Posts: 107	Re: 89 5.7l issues... she won't play nice Glad you got that straightened out for the most part. My last truck had the same issues intermittently but stopped when I just unbolted the ring terminal, taped it up and tucked it away. Odd isn't it how that works? I prefer to let codes clear themselves but taking a cable off for a bit or cutting power to the ecm works too, I just wouldn't remove the ecm fuse with the ignition forward, and I think its ecm A not B that you need Posted via Mobile Device __________________ i flush the of weakness with mushroom clouds at hand '95 short bed x cab c1500... just another old truck someone else beat up, abused, hacked and didnt respect... my turn to turn it into a beat up old truck into a beat up and reliable pleasure to drive... them- "when you gonna put an exhaust on that thing?" me- "what do you mean? The exhaust comes all the way to the bumber and sounds great!" them- "straight pipes isnt an exhaust man..." me- "meh... who needs a fancy muffler when you've got straight pipes? its got a cat, doesnt resonate, and I like how it sounds, and to be perfectly honest, it makes me behave myself when I'm out and about!" ^^^ favorite conversation about my truck to date

11-26-2012, 08:39 PM	#3
JaggedEdge Registered User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Western Oklahoma Posts: 48	Re: 89 5.7l issues... she won't play nice Fuel spray while it is running (idles just fine) looks good to me, but then I wouldn't really know what to look for. Reading some of the other threads I am thinking the ect and the feul pressure are worth looking into, but won't have the means to test them until tomorrow. I changed the filter right after I changed the module and reset the timing, thinking the gas might have been bad before I filled it up, but I only drove it less than a mile before filling it with fresh gas.

11-28-2012, 10:24 AM	#9
JaggedEdge Registered User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Western Oklahoma Posts: 48	Re: 89 5.7l issues... she won't play nice Yup... thanks "wayfast"! the ground was the major issue making it run sick. I am still a little confused about the code clearing. When I got back from the test drive, it had lit the SES light, but after paper clipping and reading them, I started it up and the SES light was gone. I can't figure out how that happened. If I understand correctly, the code it was showing (32) is an "intermittent"???? Does this mean that the code will remain stored in the ecm but the SES light will only come on if the perfect conditions are met again?? Guess I thought the light stayed on until the problem was fixed, or error code cleared. Still have to deal with the egr issue, but at least its running and driving!! Is the egr valve something that could be cleaned or is it automatic replacement?? Thanks again for all who are participating, it's a great help!

11-28-2012, 11:49 AM	#11
JaggedEdge Registered User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Western Oklahoma Posts: 48	Re: 89 5.7l issues... she won't play nice TennesseeZ thanks for the help!! I don't see any misleading info in any of your posts!! I appreciate people such as you that take the time to give their experiences with these trucks. As I said earlier, I hark back to a time when you didn't have electronic fuel management on trucks, and emissions was just taking concern. My recent experience has been "get in and drive". Thankfully I have had some trucks that all you needed to do was just that. The 89 in question has been a "backup" that does the dirty job when I need it to, or when my daily driver is loaded with tools. ( I am ashamed to say it is a Ferd, but proud to say I WILL NEVER BUY ANOTHER ONE. 5.4 Triton... just try and change the plugs) I am a craigslist junkie, and buy and sell trucks that need a little "gathering up". I have always taken then to a small shop locally for any engine work, because I did not know anything about these systems. Just like the computer I am on, I have pretty much been forced to learn a little about them, or get left behind. I have a 93 ext cab 4x with the same engine, that is undergoing an extreme transformation right now. I hope to have a build thread up soon. Same thing... it was someone elses "beater" that ended up on craigs for a song. I'll probably post some questions on it soon, as it appears the throttle body has been swapped, and there are some key parts missing. Now that I have started learning a little more about how the system on these trucks works, I am surprised that it ran long enough to drive it home. Heck, I am surprised it will start and run at all. I hope I don't become a nuisance with all the questions. Everyone had to learn somewhere. Thanks for the help!!

11-28-2012, 01:22 PM	#12
wayfastwhitey right below above average joe Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: palm bay, fl Posts: 107	Re: 89 5.7l issues... she won't play nice Singin' on craigslist is my favorite... At 23 I am on vehicle #30 and only twice have I given more than a thousand dollars for a vehicle. I'm glad you got it straightened out for the most part, these trucks are touchy but they're pretty simple still, easy to learn for sure, if you got the basics, for the most part you'll be alright with just a wrench and your paper clip. Even if it tosses a code chances are it will still run when you need it. Posted via Mobile Device __________________ i flush the of weakness with mushroom clouds at hand '95 short bed x cab c1500... just another old truck someone else beat up, abused, hacked and didnt respect... my turn to turn it into a beat up old truck into a beat up and reliable pleasure to drive... them- "when you gonna put an exhaust on that thing?" me- "what do you mean? The exhaust comes all the way to the bumber and sounds great!" them- "straight pipes isnt an exhaust man..." me- "meh... who needs a fancy muffler when you've got straight pipes? its got a cat, doesnt resonate, and I like how it sounds, and to be perfectly honest, it makes me behave myself when I'm out and about!" ^^^ favorite conversation about my truck to date

11-28-2012, 11:53 PM	#14
stocker96 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: North Road, Alaska Posts: 154	Re: 89 5.7l issues... she won't play nice Change plugs on a 5.4? I thought they just blew out when they needed attention Glad you got it up and going. Ive never cleaned an EGR It's probably possible, but I always just replace with an OEM one.

11-29-2012, 12:56 AM	#15
JaggedEdge Registered User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Western Oklahoma Posts: 48	Re: 89 5.7l issues... she won't play nice Stocker the top part of a 5.4 plug pops off like a thanksgiving turkey when its time to change them. The electrode stays in the head until you take a hammer and a drift pin and drive it into the cylinder. Thats what they put that extra valve in there for... to give it a way to blow out. Geez... you chevy guys don't know squat 'bout Ferds.



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